EPTAnd DrPanda pretty much covered all the key points.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 620
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
And DrPanda pretty much covered all the key points. | ||
woreyour
582 Posts
but it is a too late of an item and I feel like my mana regen is still not that great. I was hoping if I can insert the Euls or just go straight orchid? because what happens is I gank, I get hit hard but not dead, then I TP to base to regen and rinse repeat. It is hard to walk to catch the whole gang on pushing or ganking again. When I got my euls I just ball lightning like 1/4 of the map and there I can catch up after like 14 sec my mana is on working gank mode condition say 500/1200. It is also great in between after ganks clearing creeps and pushing. but my question is, does it delay my bigger items? | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:27 Excludos wrote: I never said it solved it, it patches it. You are completely right that storm will always have mana problems, thats most of what the hero is about. Thats why I feel rushing straight for an item as expensive as orchid without going through mana boots first isn't a good idea. I'd rather have mana boots to orchid, disassemble them to threads and use the energy booster for a bloodstone after, rather than going straight for threads. Mana boots makes it a lot harder to ball -> hit -> ball -> hit because without the extra attack speed from treads the animation takes so long. That's why most go straight for treads. This is very noticeable when you have a regen rune because you want to ball -> hit spam as much as possible. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:27 Excludos wrote: I never said it solved it, it patches it. You are completely right that storm will always have mana problems, thats most of what the hero is about. Thats why I feel rushing straight for an item as expensive as orchid without going through mana boots first isn't a good idea. I'd rather have mana boots to orchid, disassemble them to threads and use the energy booster for a bloodstone after, rather than going straight for threads. Your wrong on so many counts. 1) skill build- 3points in vortex is the norm,its all that you need to suck someone into a remnant. 2) Orchid is cheaper than Bloodstone by nearly 1k. Orchid is 4125 compared to Bloodstone 5050. 3) Your talking about having mana issues, thus ur going mana boots into Bloodstone... I would like to remind you that Orchid gives 25intel, which acts as a mana buffer too. 4) Stormspirit is a ganker by skillset. A orchid compliments that skillset and allows for it to burst people very quickly. A bloodstone by nature is a snowbally item,however it's contradictory because it doesnt help Storm to kill people to snowball in the first place. This is why people recommend Orchid > Bloodstone. 5) Since storm is built around mana constraints/problems like you've acknowledged, a bottle/intel treads is enough if you manage your mana properly as we've been trying to tell you. Do not rely on crutches that doesnt really help the hero out(make it kill people faster) like a bloodstone. typically you build to a hero strength,not attempt to cover its weakness. 6) Your item build is wrong too. Your talking about bloodstone into BoT. Where are you going to get the damage to kill people? It's typically better to build to a hero strength like i've said. Disclaimer: i am not saying never go bloodstone, just that it's more suitable for a stomp than a normal game. Orchid is just too good on storm. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:52 woreyour wrote: okay so what i do is basicly bottle-treads and wands or wand and treads. get a point booster, get perseverance and complete bloodstone. but it is a too late of an item and I feel like my mana regen is still not that great. I was hoping if I can insert the Euls or just go straight orchid? because what happens is I gank, I get hit hard but not dead, then I TP to base to regen and rinse repeat. It is hard to walk to catch the whole gang on pushing or ganking again. When I got my euls I just ball lightning like 1/4 of the map and there I can catch up after like 14 sec my mana is on working gank mode condition say 500/1200. It is also great in between after ganks clearing creeps and pushing. but my question is, does it delay my bigger items? Do not go bloodstone. Go Bottle-Treads-Null(if needed)-stick...then straight Orchid. After Orchid depending on the game, BKB or Guinsoo. | ||
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woreyour
582 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:56 Firebolt145 wrote: Euls is kinda meh since it doesn't actually help you gank much. So you threw the guy up in the air for a couple seconds. What now? Orchids is much stronger. well I was kinda experimenting with it, it is cheap 150% mana provide instead of orchids. makes me spam remnants early, makes me move faster early without spaming ball. Makes me ball jump > remnant> cyclone > remnant > sure pull > remnant. Gives me the early solo gank, earlier than orchid. what do you think? or I can just straight up orchid for the more effective silence item? 2700 vs 4000, 1300 difference.. hmmmm | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Euls IS good, however, against heroes that silence you. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On September 26 2013 00:11 woreyour wrote: well I was kinda experimenting with it, it is cheap 150% mana provide instead of orchids. makes me spam remnants early, makes me move faster early without spaming ball. Makes me ball jump > remnant> cyclone > remnant > sure pull > remnant. Gives me the early solo gank, earlier than orchid. what do you think? or I can just straight up orchid for the more effective silence item? 2700 vs 4000, 1300 difference.. hmmmm orchid cost 5k 30% more damage, a 5sec silence, 15 more int, 30 attack speed, 30 damage you lose some movement speed but mobility is not really storms biggest issue. Orchid is just overall a way better item than Euls. I love Euls and it's my 2nd most favourite item in the game. It's just that all the good things about Euls isn't really suited for storm. You can do a lot of cute stuff dodging with Euls but you can do the same with Ball of lightning. Plus the fact that movement speed is pretty nonfactor for storm anyway. I'd really only go Euls vs a Rikimaru, other than that never.. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On September 26 2013 00:18 DrPandaPhD wrote: orchid cost 5k 30% more damage, a 5sec silence, 15 more int, 30 attack speed, 30 damage you lose some movement speed but mobility is not really storms biggest issue. Orchid is just overall a way better item than Euls. I love Euls and it's my 2nd most favourite item in the game. It's just that all the good things about Euls isn't really suited for storm. You can do a lot of cute stuff dodging with Euls but you can do the same with Ball of lightning. Plus the fact that movement speed is pretty nonfactor for storm anyway. I'd really only go Euls vs a Rikimaru, other than that never.. Orchid really doesn't cost 5K though lol. 325x2, 450x2, 900x2, 775 = 4125 or something | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On September 26 2013 00:20 Sn0_Man wrote: Orchid really doesn't cost 5K though lol. 325x2, 450x2, 900x2, 775 = 4125 or something oh you're right, guess the prize from when it was 3 oblivion staffs are still stuck in my head | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On September 26 2013 00:24 aintz wrote: hon trash. i was so suprised too when i found out hellflower was so cheap in this game. Best item on Doctor Repulsor is Frostwolf Skull ^^ | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) First item for Storm depends a lot on the game. The power of your Orchid timing is dependent on how likely you are to be able to solo-kill people with it, and how easy it is in general to set up kills with it in general in a given game (e.g. teammates like Naix and SB make Orchid really strong). Orchid is a weak 5v5 item by itself (you need a second item to go with it), and a weaker item when behind (though usually still strong enough to be worthwhile). You usually want Orchid first, but there's honestly nothing wrong with Bloodstone, Linken, or BKB first if you deem it appropriate for the game (each have their advantages). 2) Skill order varies greatly. The skill order Firebolt and DrPanda provided are both fine, but there are a lot of variations. Maxing Remnant instead of Overload is common in China/SEA, for example. Disclaimer: i am not saying never go bloodstone, just that it's more suitable for a stomp than a normal game. Orchid is just too good on storm. I actually disagree with this. If you are ahead, the Orchid is a LOT better because with a farm/level advantage, an Orchid basically enables you to solo-kill anyone on the other team until someone buys a BKB. Bloodstone on Storm is really a farming item. It's good some of the time, but you have to realize you give up a LOT of ganking/solo-killing ability for it. The farming power has to be worth it. | ||
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woreyour
582 Posts
1. core items: Bottle wand treads 2. what is teh situation? can I kill? - Orchid I cant kill, need to survive disables? -linkins/ BKB Just need to farm? -Bloodstone 3. then go luxurious? want disable? -ginsuo beef up? -scadi big damage item? | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
go fast orchid if your enemies arent bunching or they have escapes like weaver. go bloodstone if you want to be tankier and in teamfights, your solo kill potential is still stupidly high just not against heroes with great escapes. after sheep or bkb depending on the situation. if they have craptonof lockdown and you are having trouble zooming and killing go bkb ofcourse. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
edit: For storm I like maxing remnant first because I feel that farming > kills. Obviously if I see a free kill I go for it but otherwise I'm not gonna move much from the mid lane and just stay there and farm my first big item ( bloodstone/orchid ) while carrying a tp to join fights. The only drawback is that you MUST hit your remnant, which sometimes can be tricky, otherwise you aren't killing anything | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On September 26 2013 02:29 BlitzerSC wrote: Does Sand King have invincibility frames when he is using borrow strike ? edit: For storm I like maxing remnant first because I feel that farming > kills. Obviously if I see a free kill I go for it but otherwise I'm not gonna move much from the mid lane and just stay there and farm my first big item ( bloodstone/orchid ) while carrying a tp to join fights. The only drawback is that you MUST hit your remnant which sometimes can be tricky otherwise you aren't killing anything yes. you can't be hit while burrowstriking, though the animation is very quick so it's rare that you'll be able to use it for anything besides basic disjoints. the thing about maxing remnant first is you often can't afford to sit around and farm a bloodstone/orchid when your team needs you between like 7ish and 15ish minute marks. each level increase also increases the damage from remnant by very little while also increasing the mana cost, so a lot of times it's nearly as efficient (farm-wise) to max overload instead. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
Max remnant first is quite a big deal since it allow you to farm the jungle really fast. This is especially good when you are radiant because you just push the lane and then go farm the easy camp and hard camp, but it works just fine for dire too. After you complete your first item you can start looking for kills otherwise it's just a waste of time imho because you'll never be sure that you are gonna get a kill and if you fail you might die, give out tons of xp, gold and lose farming time. It's just another style of play that for some reason is not liked by many people who play pubs, but it's perfectly viable and as good if not better and safer than the classic "I max overload and then go on a ganking spree" style of play. | ||
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