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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 584

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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negon
Profile Joined February 2012
212 Posts
August 27 2013 08:43 GMT
#11661
Well you'd be losing exp too and the other mid would get uncontested farm and gold/level advantage - which might be short-term but with a good momentum based hero it could matter.. I'd say it's not really worth it unless the lane is pushed heavily under their tower or there are supports roaming, trying to kill you - if it is too risky to stay on the lane, then obviously go stack camps or kill the easy one, but as long as you can stay mid, I think you should stay there.
u sixpoll?
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
August 27 2013 08:47 GMT
#11662
On August 24 2013 09:02 jrkirby wrote:
Often the default item guide on int heroes recommends buying a bracer for the extra HP. Is this just foolish/waste of money or is that actually a good idea?


sange is the new bracer
Put quote here for readability
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
August 27 2013 08:53 GMT
#11663
On August 27 2013 17:47 sandyph wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 09:02 jrkirby wrote:
Often the default item guide on int heroes recommends buying a bracer for the extra HP. Is this just foolish/waste of money or is that actually a good idea?


sange is the new bracer


Or a ghost scepter is a cool alternative that can net u some creative wins
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
August 27 2013 08:53 GMT
#11664
On average large camps gives 124 gold and 220 experience.

A melee creep yields 38-48 gold and 62 experience, a range creep yields 43-53 gold and 41 experience. A siege creep is worth 66-80 gold and 88 experience. So if you want to always come out ahead then I would say the maximum creeps you wanna miss would be 3. However, since the value we're using is an average for large camps, it's worth noting that a large Satyr camp gives 150 average gold but a whopping 284 experience. Similarly, a troll camp is worth 279 experience and a respectable 117 average gold.

To sum up I would say that if you're last hitting is going well and you feel uncontested in cs for the lane (like a Shadowfiend that's gotten a lot of souls) then not missing lane creeps will reliably give you more gold/exp. However, if your lane is particularly oppressive, then gold and experience-wise, stacking camps should reliably give you more gold (it's also significantly safer to stack and jungle too). Unfortunately, the benefit is somewhat dependent on how lucky you are with what spawns you get.
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
August 27 2013 12:53 GMT
#11665
Why is Drums preferred on Bounty Hunter compared to Urn + Aquilla? Although it takes up two slots, it gives you much needed hp + mana regen that Drums doesn't give and more damage. The movespeed/attackspeed isn't as relevant on bounty hunter as other heros. I guess if you go bottle Drums can be considered better.
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8947 Posts
August 27 2013 13:23 GMT
#11666
the movespeed is actually precisely the reason you get it. aside from the hp/mana which bh desperately needs, teams that pick bh normally have other high mobility/chasing heroes. the drums becomes relevant in those cases. urn is ok, but you still need another item to fix your mana problems, and aquila just doesnt do enough for bh to justify picking it up. drums doesnt really fix your mana problems but it helps a lot better than urn, and if coupled with a bottle you dont need anything else for sustain.
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-27 13:50:14
August 27 2013 13:34 GMT
#11667
Drums and Urns are both viable item progression paths for Bounty Hunter.

Bounty Hunter is a mid-game hero whose goal is to provide extra gold for the team (through track) whilst creating space for the hard carry. Bounty Hunter has pretty good agility gain at 3.0 per level, so his natural damage output in combination with Jinada is solid without requiring a lot of +damage items. Bounty Hunter's weaknesses tend to be his poor strength, small mana pool and poor team fight capability without BKB.

Drums is considered a very good item because it shores up his poor hp and mana pool at a relatively cheap price (as a solo offlaner you won't be getting a lot of farm), whilst increasing both his team and his own teamfight mobility. With a combination of track/phase active/drums active, Bounty Hunter can achieve close to 500+ movespeed every 4 seconds which makes him excellent at hunting down heroes and getting tracks off. Furthermore, as a melee dps hero, drums helps resolve the issue of kiting by giving him excellent in-fight mobility. There are also situations where the active is particularly helpful if you've been dusted and are trying to run away.

Urn is also a good item for it's cost as it also shores ups his poor hp pool and gives some mana regeneration (the active is also a solid extra nuke and it helps you avoid having to go home).

Drums and Urn are both alright, but I don't particularly like Aquila because it doesn't particularly mesh well with the goals and objectives of Bounty Hunter's going into the mid-game and you won't be spending a lot of time in lane to abuse the aura. It's 1k for an item that simply doesn't add as much as Urn or Drums build-up. Bounty Hunter's skill set already gives him solid damage output, and you're really better off shoring up some of his weaknesses.

Edit: I don't think a bottle pickup on Bounty Hunter is needed every game as long as your team has 1 or 2 supports with arcane boots or if you're playing with a max toss first build. The recent changes to track (mana cost 70/60/50 --> 50 at all ranks) is actually quite a boon for Bounty Hunter early game and ends up allowing you to get off an extra 1-2 tracks and windwalk. Be sure to grab runes if you do have a bottle though otherwise you greatly reduce it's efficiency. I tend to favour a 2/4/2/1 build on BH most games, so I don't have a much mana issues as a 4/1/1/1. There are some games where a max toss build is better if you can't really engage properly (e.g. Heavy Push/AoE lineups).
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-27 13:42:10
August 27 2013 13:40 GMT
#11668
On August 27 2013 17:33 Andr3 wrote:
How many creeps is it worth skipping in the mid lane to stack the jungle big camp? Say you're a hero that can kill stacks really fast.

Question for both radiant/dire. Obviously it's better for radiant but if it's still worth doing on the dire side ~

iv never seen anyone do it on the dire side because to stack any camp would take at least 30~ sec without boots which is just way way too long. shadow fiends, storm spirits, and mid lane kotls will often stack the radiant easy camp. its especially nice for sf because the ez camp can be a little insurance policy for your souls in case you get killed.

I think its very rarely worth taking the time to stack the big camp even on radiant unless your playing something like kotl and your having a really difficult lane.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
August 27 2013 15:17 GMT
#11669
On August 27 2013 07:31 Jotoco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2013 03:22 TheYango wrote:
On August 27 2013 03:20 Oukka wrote:
On August 27 2013 03:14 Sn0_Man wrote:
Oh yeah that if they get ghost then u can get purge for it. Also if they have a warlock purging those creeps is good. With a radiance though Sceptre isn't necessarily the end of the world (though still annoying).


I think purge (from diffusal at least) was made not to instakill the golems in one of the recent patces, can someone confirm?

No, that change was for Shadow Demon's ultimate, which incorrectly insta-killed summoned units.

Diffusal insta-killing summoned units is the correct behavior.


Yep.

And that is why diffusal is almost always a great investment against a warlock. Not only because it weakens him, but because it nets you your gold back in the end.


I (shamelessly) recommend this in-game item guide:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129238476

No refresher in it though. Full 6 slot spec is usually Radiance, heart, diffu, bfly, BoT, the last slot is usually personally preference, manta for most situations, otherwise crit/basher/mkb/bkb/ac/skadi or most important the buyback gold (for buyback+ulti combo).
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Gluttony
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden160 Posts
August 27 2013 16:55 GMT
#11670
Hey all,

Would a Magnus support be at all viable? Think a 4 maybe, with arcanes, blink, mek?
The farm for blink is the big problem here I guess. That and getting xp. But would it work?
I'm out of quotes atm :/
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
August 27 2013 16:57 GMT
#11671
On August 28 2013 01:55 Gluttony wrote:
Hey all,

Would a Magnus support be at all viable? Think a 4 maybe, with arcanes, blink, mek?
The farm for blink is the big problem here I guess. That and getting xp. But would it work?


no it cannot be played as 4. he need items and lvls early. he doesnt provide support in lane with other ppl either.
Gluttony
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden160 Posts
August 27 2013 17:01 GMT
#11672
On August 28 2013 01:57 aintz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2013 01:55 Gluttony wrote:
Hey all,

Would a Magnus support be at all viable? Think a 4 maybe, with arcanes, blink, mek?
The farm for blink is the big problem here I guess. That and getting xp. But would it work?


no it cannot be played as 4. he need items and lvls early. he doesnt provide support in lane with other ppl either.


Thanks! Thats what I thought too. We wanted one for the midgame, but didn't wanna shuffle around our positions haha.
I'm out of quotes atm :/
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
August 27 2013 17:17 GMT
#11673
Do you want to sell off a Magic Wand or Bottle first? Or is it too circumstantial to give a clear answer?
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-27 17:20:44
August 27 2013 17:19 GMT
#11674
i prefer to get rid of bottle first unless im storm spirit ( but then again i dont get wand on ss unless theres a bunch of casters). as the game progresses i start going for runes less and more focused on either farming or pushing, plus wand is instant regen and is more helpful in a fight.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 27 2013 17:26 GMT
#11675
Usually Bottle unless you just picked a really game-changing rune that you want to have for the next fight while still getting the item you want to free a slot for.
Moderator
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
August 27 2013 18:08 GMT
#11676
also see if anyone else in your team might need it (low leveled supports etc.), sometimes i just give my bottle to a teammate to use.
:)
negon
Profile Joined February 2012
212 Posts
August 27 2013 20:21 GMT
#11677
uh i prefer keeping the wand myself as well, but most pros and streamers will sell it first and keep the bottle.. or at least ive noticed it, then again i might be a bit biased because its a little thing that irks me quite a bit so i probably notice it when it happens and it goes over my head when they actually sell the bottle first
u sixpoll?
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
August 27 2013 21:01 GMT
#11678
Wand is often more significant in actual fights, so I'd rather keep that. 225 burst heal/mana is not something to be taken lightly. Bottle is often more useful in the periods between fights.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-27 21:20:36
August 27 2013 21:04 GMT
#11679
In most situations, if you have a bottle you'll be playing a mid hero who actually has a use for it to begin with. A lot of mid heroes have in common a good abilities that lets you exit combat and make use of the bottle, and then enter it again (blink, shield, scewer, invis, slow, astral imprison, etc). In those situations, bottle will be a lot more useful than wand, even though a wand does give a bit more stats and instant health instead of slow regen.

But if you're, lets say, an offlane clock with bottle (viable), then yes, get rid of it before the wand. It wont do you any good in battles at all.
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
August 27 2013 21:36 GMT
#11680
On August 28 2013 02:26 TheYango wrote:
Usually Bottle unless you just picked a really game-changing rune that you want to have for the next fight while still getting the item you want to free a slot for.

I've heard some arguments about SF keeping a bottle over a wand during critical farming periods (obviously, he benefits from a wand a lot, especially due to his squishiness) due to wanting to have the mana pool to raze to clear camps.

I'm not a good SF player, but the good players in me (sic) says to keep the wand.

Opinions?
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