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Big balls on Cap right now. It really feels like he started listening to women in the Dota scene and I appreciate another top caster calling Tobi out. I hope that he's able to help women who have been hurt find some peace.
This is also setting a great example of other people in the industry to follow. Hot_Bid also did an amazing thing earlier finding one of Demon's victims and verifying her story so he can share it. Finally some of the people near the top are matching the same courageous energy as the women who were speaking up.
On June 25 2020 17:23 Sr18 wrote: Here are Ceb's thoughts on the matter:
I feel like it's a battle between Ceb and Universe on who can decimate the remaining brain cells of the people who actually read or listen to the shit that they say. Ceb is an absolute scumbag of a human being and it's not a surprise to hear him spend the entire time talking about "mob mentality" and the danger of social justice.
Dota is honestly so tainted for me at this point.
I see you've not had the joy of reading Bone7 tweets.
I loved Bone7 as a player but his words are more questionable than his plays.
Yeah People that want proof and evidence are the worst, if a women write something om behalf on another women about an man it must be true. People can't change so if you commit something wrong according to the moral police they should be locked up and we should throw away the key
On June 25 2020 23:42 Sapaio wrote: Yeah People that want proof and evidence are the worst, if a women write something om behalf on another women about an man it must be true. People can't change so if you commit something wrong according to the moral police they should be locked up and we should throw away the key
That is simply not true. I can see that you do not consider multiple corroborated accounts to be sufficient to conclude that either grant, or in this instance demon possibly too, have been a toxic person to be around. But this isn't about crimes in a technically not illegal seeing, it's about humane interaction which both have been shown to be incapable of to an untenable extent.
I feel like it's a battle between Ceb and Universe on who can decimate the remaining brain cells of the people who actually read or listen to the shit that they say. Ceb is an absolute scumbag of a human being and it's not a surprise to hear him spend the entire time talking about "mob mentality" and the danger of social justice.
Dota is honestly so tainted for me at this point.
I mean that you are alllowed to make rants such at this against Ceb and Univers because they want what i stated. I don't know the Demon case. But the Zyori case is thin. Same with the Grant. I agree that he did other shit. But I think People that want such cases won in court before posting and ruining People job online doesn't deserve such comments.
Edit. Thought you could see my post before was ironic. Not sure now
I feel like it's a battle between Ceb and Universe on who can decimate the remaining brain cells of the people who actually read or listen to the shit that they say. Ceb is an absolute scumbag of a human being and it's not a surprise to hear him spend the entire time talking about "mob mentality" and the danger of social justice.
Dota is honestly so tainted for me at this point.
I see you've not had the joy of reading Bone7 tweets.
I loved Bone7 as a player but his words are more questionable than his plays.
Holy fuck, I don't even have to read that deep and it's like he straight up just joined the Romanian version of the Proud Boys.
Tobi Wan has had multiple "known creep" posts made against him the past couple days. He put up a terrible Twitlonger just a couple hours ago that didn't even acknowledge any possibility of wrongdoing then swiftly took it down saying he had "done horrible things".
Someone has now come forward saying Toby attempted to rape her.
Seeing arguments like "we need to desexualize society if everyone's gonna be fine" is so fucking wrong it hurts to read.
It's not about that. I'm tall (197cm, 6feet 5inch) and I've always been a big dude. I've been told that I can be intimidating when you first see me because of this. Y'all know how many times I've been accused of being sexually abusive or aggressive? NONE. I've expressed interest and asked women out. My advances have been accepted and rejected. I've had girls who are blackout drunk come on to me and turned them down because of that. I've been drunk around girls I had unreciprocated feelings for and done nothing. Not once have I made anyone feel uncomfortable enough for anyone to react badly to my advances.
The problem is you. And that's a harsh truth to swallow. You are not entitled to another beings body or love. No one owes you sex or a relationship, even if you've been nothing but nice to them. No one owes you sex because you won a tournament (something that Bone7 can't lean on, but whatever). We all have our preferences when it comes to partners and she just might not be into your type and then there's nothing you can do.
Most people I know that are feminists or have done a lot for women's rights/equality are actually incredibly sexual creatures. They'll openly talk about their sex life, more so than people from the other end of the spectrum. They've just come to the realization that there's a time and place for being sexual. And they've figured out how to be sexual.
There are an incredible amount of bad faith actors trying to come off anything else besides what they truly are at the moment.
I know Universe has achieved a lot in his career and he's well respect, but nothing changes the fact that he's a rapist's friend who found was more focused telling people to be nicer to a rapist rather giving a damn about his friend's victims. We need to call this shit out for what it is instead of letting these people deceive us like this.
LD and Godz are another set of bad faith actors that want us to honestly believe that they only knew of Grant was a simple silly drunk when it's proven that at least Godz was completely aware of the fact he was a raging racist and antismite. I will never watch anything under BeyondTheSummit because of them and I hate how their fake ass PR statement probably spent more time trying to make look Llama bad than Grant. Grant was just silly drunk guy before the rape accusations while Llama was an illogical drama queen who Reddit didn't like anyways. These guys have absolutely no morals.
I've been avoiding Tobi's casts on BTS for 2-3 days because I knew something was likely going to come out about him. He shouldn't have been casting after the Llama incident got brought back into the light
On June 26 2020 01:42 juuto wrote: I've been avoiding Tobi's casts on BTS for 2-3 days because I knew something was likely going to come out about him. He shouldn't have been casting after the Llama incident got brought back into the light
Can you tell me the lottery draw of the next days aswell, please?
Can't stand it when people say "I always knew it" afterwards.
On June 26 2020 01:42 juuto wrote: I've been avoiding Tobi's casts on BTS for 2-3 days because I knew something was likely going to come out about him. He shouldn't have been casting after the Llama incident got brought back into the light
Can you tell me the lottery draw of the next days aswell, please?
Can't stand it when people say "I always knew it" afterwards.
"Afterwards". People knew the entire time that the dude was fucked up and he was a raging misogynist too.
For the sake of Preserving The original Topic, here is Tobi's original response on twit longer before he changed it. Don't let scum like this get away with playing PR. he has the audacity to talk down to us and demand change in the community while being the sole and largest perpetrator. i.imgur.com
Stumbled upon this on reddit, someone else airing out tobi's past behavior on stream. This isn't anything new.
heres tobis opinion on women in esports: "That's the role of girls in e-sports, they're either bat shit crazy or in a long term relationship" -Tobiwan dota
Good riddance to TobiWan, Grant, and anyone else the community loses as a result of all this.
I just hope going forward the community does a better job of preventing this shit and treating these kinds of allegations with the seriousness they deserve.
On June 26 2020 01:42 juuto wrote: I've been avoiding Tobi's casts on BTS for 2-3 days because I knew something was likely going to come out about him. He shouldn't have been casting after the Llama incident got brought back into the light
Can you tell me the lottery draw of the next days aswell, please?
Can't stand it when people say "I always knew it" afterwards.
It is ever so telling that THIS is what irks you so much you have to make a post about it.
I wasn't sure if I should write something, because I think I get some red "ink" on the bottom or this will be just gone, but here it goes anyway!
I think, the first thing we should check is the "level of creepiness". If someone is drunk and tries to hit on you and you have to shove him away so he gets the message into his alcohol brain vs. getting you dead drunk and putting his dick inside you ... are on such different levels, I'm not willing to discuss those/similar incidents as if they are the fucking same thing! Ok with that? No? Sorry, don't read on!
Because just a question: Are men allowed to try to get the attention of a woman? To flirt with her? And - yes - trying to get her out of her cloths? If yes, well you have to deal with a basic level of "creepiness", depending on man and manners and what not. If not ... well, lean back, mankind will be gone in 100 years because nobody reproduces! But I don't want to go to deep in basic man-woman relationships. Back to "current events". A question about that though: The stories I read here are often starting "yeah, he<dotacaster/similar> was so nice and took me to this party, and suddenly he wanted things *eeek*" ... ok. The question is: How did you get there? "Everyone" here says, listen to women, so I want to: How did you get the attention of someone that is a well known figure in the gaming scene, that you get invited to basically private parties? I think in one of the GrandGrant stories a streaming-chat was mentioned. Some are not so clear to me, especially things that happened at a LAN. Did you go up at him and said "omg, I'm a big fan! I want to get to know you better! here is my telephone number!" or what happened? And would you think, that if I, or another "basic man", would go to someone and try to get this attention ... that my/our chances are "quite" lower than yours to get such an invitation!? Do you know, what power you have?
While I wait, a little story time: I listen quite often to "other" women about similar things. You know, it is often mentioned that there are not many women in esports/gaming. Well, that is true, but I like them (women)! So I have another hobby on the side, that for years is much bigger for me, but gaming: I'm a dancer! If you don't believe me, ask the people that watched me dance at ESL One Hamburg last year (I admit, it weren't that many because it was during the grand finals ... I think...) And in dancing there are a LOT more women. So there is not that gender gap (pun intended) as in gaming events. But we have a lot of creepers too! I really don't know how often a (girl)friend came up to me at a party and said "Please dance with me or this creepy guy will ask me!" or also a favorite "Hey, see this guy back there? - yeah, why? - He just asked, if I'm open for a night with him!" (at least those guys normally take the no and walk away in search for the next woman...) I could go on with similar stories I hear! Depending on the dance, it gets quite close in a physical way from the get-go between "strangers". And a lot of "boundaries" you normally have "around you" are not there! There is a lot of trust involved! And you, as a man, must be especially good at reading signals during a dance on what you are "allowed" to do! For example, if a woman puts her hand on your breast, you are good ... well, no, wrong! She wants more room and more distance! Do it! But those signals are basically not shown anywhere. You have to learn - on both sides - what they are and how to show them and how to react! And sometimes you just have to say a clear "NO!" You remember this creepy guy, that I had to "counter-dance"!? Well I sometimes ask why she doesn't say this small word to him!? And they are "... oehm... how could I, if he asks, hm... isn't this wrong?" No, it isn't! I know quite a few women that "mastered" it. They look the guy cool into his eyes, say "No, sorry" and turn away. The don't go "Hihi, no, sorry, I need a break, hihi" with blushed cheeks. Because that doesn't work! We men are stupid as fuck! Deal with us on that level!
So, back to gaming. But did we learn anything here? I hope! Women: Learn to know where you are and what you are! You are NOT "another guy" at an gaming event! It would be great if that would be, but it isn't! I know, this is basically what this is about, but I don't see that happen in the near future! You CAN'T force it! See what other people are around you and learn that not every man is a perfect gentleman! (well, no one is!) And deal with us directly! Not years later on twitlonger to "expose" us for a "shameful" evening! Man: Not every women is "available", deal with it! Especially not at an gaming event! If you happen to strike up a conversation with one because you are next to each other in line for a show or something, good luck! Read the signals! Does she just want to banter? Or is there more? In doubt: Distance! If you are " public figure", know that you are one! "With great power comes great responsibility!" or something... and if you really think, you are good to go, maybe go slow with verbal flirting and "handholding" and not "how about my hotel room now!?" because then you can stop at a moment where I'm not disgusted by you!
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pdche.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://external-preview.redd.it/MXLnwcC4s57F_qiBAcwqZKsj3t77Tlhun_QgUI85WoM.png?auto=webp&s=727fc56605e68a7a01d23da3a6ee50607e358d35)
