EPTOfficial 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 9808
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Keep it up Elon. Keep missing that subtext that isn't even that subtle. | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On October 15 2018 18:07 ahswtini wrote: ariana broke up with pete davidson godbless This is my chance Elon is kinda inverse Trump. They should give Elon a show like The Apprentice to come full circle | ||
|
intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On October 15 2018 22:26 Plansix wrote: In classic tech bro style, Elon tweets about making mecha, completely missing the most Mecha Anime’s theme is “Don’t make Mecha, war and violence destroy humans.” Notable exception: Pat-Labor – which is about building a civil servant. Keep it up Elon. Keep missing that subtext that isn't even that subtle. Hey he just wants to trigger instrumentality don't worry about it. On October 15 2018 22:39 Pontual wrote: This is my chance Elon is kinda inverse Trump. They should give Elon a show like The Apprentice to come full circle Good luck brah. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The video game industry, where you can brag about being a terrible project manager and it is seen as a positive. “Our project relied on a work life balance straight out of the industrial revolution. Our entire company wouldn’t be viable if our employees ever stood up for themselves!” | ||
|
OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
| ||
TheEmulator
28102 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 16 2018 01:49 OmniEulogy wrote: Hey you never know, maybe they got paid a time and a half for 60 hours a week and they no longer need to work for the next three years. I somehow highly doubt that's how it went though. Any manager that has their people working 100 work weeks fucked up. It doesn't matter how much time and a half they got paid, that is terrible. Rock Star has responded to the critique in the past by saying their games wouldn't be possible without people putting in all that overtime, which is complete bullshit. That is just a play to get fans on their side by implying that the video games will go away if everyone goes back to 40 hour work weeks. Edit: Just for everyones information, this isn't just a problem at Rockstar. A lot of developers and former developers are talking about the labor practices in the industry due to recent events and recruiting problems. In the world of low unemployment, the theory that there is always some new young person willing to work 80 hours a week is proving to not be true. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 16 2018 01:30 Plansix wrote: Rockstar Today: Our programmers put in 100 hour work weeks to finish this amazing product! The video game industry, where you can brag about being a terrible project manager and it is seen as a positive. “Our project relied on a work life balance straight out of the industrial revolution. Our entire company wouldn’t be viable if our employees ever stood up for themselves!” You know, after working as a programmer for a while I think this is actually really dumb. A programmer working 100 hour work weeks is probably actually doing effective work about 15-20 of them. The other 80 hours are probably just causing bugs due to lack of sleep, and failing at fixing those bugs due to being tired. It's one thing to have 1-2 weeks out of a year long project cycle where you have to do it, but the video game industry as a whole seems to work that way the entire project and I think it's bad project management. It's also why I'd never work in the field. Yeah, you might get 1 good game out of a team, but then they all get burned out and quit the industry, right after they have the experience you want. It also may not even be the fastest way to get the project done. There are simple + elegant solutions to problems that take 1-2 hours to implement but have to be thought up, while there are brute force solutions that take 80+ hours to implement but take 0 thought. A tired, overworked programmer is more likely to do the latter. As a field that uses a lot of creative thinking, programming may be faster at 30 hour work weeks than 100 hour ones. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
PhoenixVoid
Canada32755 Posts
| ||
|
OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
On October 16 2018 02:01 Plansix wrote: Any manager that has their people working 100 work weeks fucked up. It doesn't matter how much time and a half they got paid, that is terrible. Rock Star has responded to the critique in the past by saying their games wouldn't be possible without people putting in all that overtime, which is complete bullshit. That is just a play to get fans on their side by implying that the video games will go away if everyone goes back to 40 hour work weeks. Edit: Just for everyones information, this isn't just a problem at Rockstar. A lot of developers and former developers are talking about the labor practices in the industry due to recent events and recruiting problems. In the world of low unemployment, the theory that there is always some new young person willing to work 80 hours a week is proving to not be true. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying it's ok if they got paid. I'm saying it's even worse because I seriously doubt they paid any of them what they would be owed from that type of work schedule. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
I'm actually taking a test for an IT project management class right now. Most people seem to be moving towards an agile approach for basically anything that is even tangentially related to an IT field. "Solve this 1 issue in the next two weeks" x8 vs "Do everything in 2 months". All of my textbooks also talk about how a project can be a failure even if it produces what you were looking for, on time, and under budget. If everyone worked 80 hours a week it's still a failure, because they're gonna leave or become disgruntled and you just burned up some of your human capital, which is far more expensive to replace than any other kind. So it's well known in the business world and current managers are being trained in it, but it'll take time to filter up and I'd imagine the managers in gaming lag behind the pure business ones anyways. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 16 2018 02:19 PhoenixVoid wrote: If there is one more reason to want a gradual shift away from the massive AAA open world games, is how much more relief there would be on the developers. The amount of work and content expected leads to messy development, exorbitant amounts of effort, and poor managerial decisions, which trickles down to everyone else. Not to mention all the burned out employees expected to pour in beyond the reasonable amount of hours and participate in crunch time. If you want healthier, better working, and creative employees, don't expect them to labour like automatons. With the shit I hear about EA’s management, it will be a blessing for sure. Bad management and poor allocation of resources killed so many good studios. They murdered Mass Effect by pulling the team on and off other games and saddling them with some bad managers that just float around the company ruining projects. It is why I fear for Dragon Age. There also needs to be less secrecy in the AAA space. They are so weird about releases and what they are working on. Watch Dogs 3 exists, Ubisoft doesn't need to play coy about it. Somewhere out there, Blizzard is contemplating a new RTS game of some form. And a new Diablo. Those products will happen at some point in time, so just be open about it. On October 16 2018 02:25 Nevuk wrote: Programming is also somewhat weird to manage because adding two programmers to a problem doesn't mean it's solved twice as fast. I'm actually taking a test for an IT project management class right now. Most people seem to be moving towards an agile approach for basically anything that is even tangentially related to an IT field. "Solve this 1 issue in the next two weeks" x8 vs "Do everything in 2 months". All of my textbooks also talk about how a project can be a failure even if it produces what you were looking for, on time, and under budget. If everyone worked 80 hours a week it's still a failure, because they're gonna leave or become disgruntled and you just burned up some of your human capital, which is far more expensive to replace than any other kind. So it's well known in the business world and current managers are being trained in it, but it'll take time to filter up and I'd imagine the managers in gaming lag behind the pure business ones anyways. The average career in video games is 5 years. That stat alone seems to be hurting recruitment for many major studios. | ||
|
CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On October 16 2018 02:25 Nevuk wrote: Programming is also somewhat weird to manage because adding two programmers to a problem doesn't mean it's solved twice as fast. Because theres overhead in managing/training these individuals who are added on temporarily and probably outsourced. The long work days can be partly because of 9 pm or 6 am conference calls with people on the other side of the planet. These temp guys will implement a feature, claim its finished and move on. The core team realizes that they f'ed up and end up redesigning their solution and tossing away the previous work. In the end it gets done and management is pleased. | ||
|
TheEmulator
28102 Posts
I can't really fault him for wanting to be a good influence I guess. | ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
TheEmulator
28102 Posts
 I just found it absolutely fucking hilarious that he asked Summit to keep his language clean and Summit's chat went full "???????? YOU ARE PLAYING A RATED M GAME LUL". | ||
|
CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
| ||
| ||
