General Discussion - Page 952

On September 04 2012 11:12 EchoZ wrote:
Agha's on Invoker. A must get?

On September 04 2012 22:22 Nevuk wrote:
Quas/Wex : It's 3-5 points in quas then max wex with a single point of exort thrown in at some point for deafening blast (5 points of quas is the point at which the lift time for tornado is the same as emp's charge time). After maxing wex max exort?

On September 05 2012 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
The spirits are incredibly strong even before drums, and invoker's base ms is so low that adding 15% to it really won't do too much. I don't think drums are ever bad to get (+9 stats, nice aura, nice active), but you can get a force staff for slightly more. Admittedly bigger components but better for setting up icewallls, cold snaps and chasing/escaping without wex.

QE was flavor of a few months after quas/wex got nerfed, but I think most people are now realizing that they're comparatively strong but serve different purposes (Exort early global presence, laning strength, and pushing presence while quas/wex is better for team fights, crowd control, early game engagements. QE gets icewall, forge, sunstrike, cold snap, while QW gets tornado, emp, ghost walk, cold snap. Forge doesn't exactly suck until it gets 2 spirits but until it does it's considerably behind the usefulness of even low level tornadoes and sunstrike isn't really a tremendous teamfight spell, especially when you're only able to invoke 2-3 spells per fight). QW can go run to a lane and gank it while QE can sit mid and sunstrike for a KS while farming with spirits. Sunstrike was also generally paired with Furion who could global tp and tree into a guaranteed sunstrike and pretty much no one gave away Furion + Invoker to any team.

On September 05 2012 00:53 NB wrote:

Not quite ...

First of all: you dont get drum on QE invoker. We have been through this before: Tread> phase. QE invoker requires a HUGE mana regen that drum wont do and the mobility is pretty much a waste. If you get ganked a lot early on Urn will give you the STR to survive, otherwise go medalion or Eul, both synergy perfectly with QE invoker.

The main problem of running QE is setting up the sunstrike. As the lane are often run as 3-1-1 vs 1-1-3, the long lanner always have the escape mechanic needed to dodge sunstrike so early on in the game there is not a lot of action so you cant use sunstrike at its full effect. Plus when running QE, you are camping on your support to secure rune control which could cause a lot of lanning, warding issue which could potentially lead to surprise butt sex. Lastly, teams could run TA for a pretty much same effect instead of QE invoker but with better map control using traps. Sunstrike overall is still a way better ganking tool than tornado mostly bc of the damage nerf and the EMP often get negated mid game due to mana boots.

There is a reason why you dont pick furion invoker EVER. Your lane is stupidly weak compare to the opposite team as both invoker and furion are extremely vulnerable to gank as well as lacking disable mechanic early on to counter aggression/harass.
http://www.dota2.com/international/game/157
Before this game even finish drafting, i already called inside the LR thread that it will not even be a close game as Navi gona lose all of their lane and proceed to lose towers etc despite having Invoker Furion. Completely read and outdrafted by Orange.

It is true that iceiceice(and bulba) is the only invoker in the tournament but he is also the most effective invoker overall. It is quite debatable seeing all the tornado lifting people up so that they wont take damage from your ally spells. I have yet see a QW invoker that has huge impact in a game during TI2.

On September 05 2012 00:59 Kipsate wrote:
I don't think you have seen Yao play his Invoker this International then.