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Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 23 2014 23:37 GMT

#124961

Icefrog should buff towers, holy shit pushing lineups are so broken right now

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:17 GMT

#124962

For the last time, the problem is that safelane, offlane, and mid all get the exact amount of levels and gold to make pushing viable at the same time. You get your Mek, your moderately bulky carry-type hero, your Blink Daggers, and you're ready to go push towers. Didn't used to be that way.

Buffing towers would make splitpush and rat doto weaker, which are the traditional counters to 5man gameplay. The problem isn't that the heroes deal so much damage to towers (outside of Pugna, LD, and Tiny, who deal as much as they ever did), it's that there's no way to stop their heroes from all whacking your tower at once.

Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 24 2014 00:33 GMT

#124963

whatever fuck this meta i hate this shit right now.

People just deathball around and its just boring to play

but worse its boring to watch on streams too

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:36 GMT

#124964

Solution is making offlane actually tough again. Sadly, I doubt that's happening. We'll probably just see a nerf to all the pushing heroes and then it'll become 5man all day long without even pushing.

Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 24 2014 00:37 GMT

#124965

the offlane was actually too hard before, but the changes made it WAY easy.

It could use a bit of toning back

Jinxed

United States6450 Posts

August 24 2014 00:43 GMT

#124966

Honestly this pushing thing is really a double edged sword in terms of balance. Nerfing it too hard means that you could end up with teams never being able to take high ground (a la the 90+ minute game TI3) which is clearly the exact opposite that has been desired from the last couple of patches.

Realistically it's just that a lot of the good pushing heroes got overbuffed. Lycan DP and Shadow Shaman are just too strong right now and with all of the other changes that happened they were able to find places to farm safely and have turned into incredibly strong heroes.

Other than those three and Void/Doom I don't think are really any other heroes that are obscene right now. Tinker maybe could use a nerf or two and maybe Ember again, but for the most part I think that the change that is needed has to come from the teams themselves.

It seems like most push lineups are free to take whatever they want with a lot of impunity and they come online so early that you can't punish them before they start to 5 man. That's really what has to be looked at IMO.

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:43 GMT

#124967

It was actually pretty excellently difficult. It made the best offlaners really shine in their practiced skill, as opposed to just being a mid position with a little less farm and no runes.

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:46 GMT

#124968

On August 24 2014 09:43 LeLoup wrote:
Honestly this pushing thing is really a double edged sword in terms of balance. Nerfing it too hard means that you could end up with teams never being able to take high ground (a la the 90+ minute game TI3) which is clearly the exact opposite that has been desired from the last couple of patches.

Realistically it's just that a lot of the good pushing heroes got overbuffed. Lycan DP and Shadow Shaman are just too strong right now and with all of the other changes that happened they were able to find places to farm safely and have turned into incredibly strong heroes.

Other than those three and Void/Doom I don't think are really any other heroes that are obscene right now. Tinker maybe could use a nerf or two and maybe Ember again, but for the most part I think that the change that is needed has to come from the teams themselves.

It seems like most push lineups are free to take whatever they want with a lot of impunity and they come online so early that you can't punish them before they start to 5 man. That's really what has to be looked at IMO.

Except push works without those three. Don't you remember Vici's incredibly strong NP/DK/Veno pushing core? I forget the other two heroes, but I remember being impressed at just how hard it was to stop. It's not an issue with the heroes, it's an issue with the game overall.

Razor and Viper are two other amazing push heroes, as is Enigma. The list goes on! Push is far from limited to three overpowered heroes, especially since it's still pretty dominant with nobody picking DP (because she's actually not that good) and nobody picking Lycan (because he's banned over 90% of the time).

Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 24 2014 00:48 GMT

#124969

On August 24 2014 09:43 Acritter wrote:
It was actually pretty excellently difficult. It made the best offlaners really shine in their practiced skill, as opposed to just being a mid position with a little less farm and no runes.

it was pretty dumb when it was like there's only like 3 heros that can offlane anyways

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:49 GMT

#124970

There were ten or so, just like there are now. All the change did was shift what we consider a viable offlane. Where's DS gone, for example?

Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 24 2014 00:53 GMT

#124971

he still shows up, univarse is still amazing at him

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 00:55 GMT

#124972

And outside of Universe, who is meta-changing in his DS skill?

Shaella

United States14828 Posts

August 24 2014 01:00 GMT

#124973

i'm just saying in the months leading up to the offlane change, we literally saw like, Dark Seer, Clock, and maybe Furion and that was it

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

August 24 2014 01:09 GMT

#124974

Furion was a major offlane player during that period. BH was there too, as was Batrider (surprised you don't remember that Bat was a premier offlane in TI3). There are other heroes that saw less play, but were good situational picks, like ET and Clinkz. Right now, we basically get Doom, Tide, Cent, Void, and Clock. All others are pretty much relegated to situational pick now. Goodness me, it looks like offlane is a centralized role regardless.

I will admit that the issue with the lane now is optimization rather than you're gonna fucking die if you poke a toe there.

Netherlands12045 Posts

August 24 2014 01:31 GMT

#124975

mmeh, i know plenties who are enjoying this push meta at lower level since the games are shorter and they could play more. Comparing to 2011-2012 meta, this is definitely much more friendly to the lower level players(which, btw, is the majority of the player base). I mean I personally like to watch AM spectre going 6 slots but I dont think we are going back there anytime soon.

Cant wait for the pitlord meta.