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TheTenthDoc

United States9561 Posts

April 23 2014 15:37 GMT

#104101

On April 23 2014 23:26 teddyoojo wrote:
QB in hon was so ridiculously op rofl, it was literally the best item in the game
i dont really like it in dota that much :/

To this day I try to use quelling blade in my inventory to damage creeps on instinct. Thanks HoN!

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 23 2014 15:46 GMT

#104102

I remember with TDL with a hatchet you never actually had to approach the creep wave to cs.

Then again I also remember waltzing up cliffs to hit wards as melee heroes because you could lol.

Kishin2

United States7534 Posts

April 23 2014 15:55 GMT

#104103

Antimage was traditionally the carry who got battlefury and farmed/split pushed all game. That split pushing style has fallen out in favor of Illusion carries that can get a Radiance and split push more efficiently without risk. AM is a liability until he gets Manta. If he gets his Bfury + treads at 15min, that's great and you'll probably win, but you probably would've won with any other carry anyways if you managed to get that amount of space. Factoring in night time starting earlier and increased Mana Void AoE makes me think that it no longer makes sense to get a 15 min battlefury when you could go Midas or Maelstrom in half that time, get Manta quicker, and be relevant quicker.

I guess I should rephrase the question into: has anyone gone Midas or Maelstrom into Manta instead of Battlefury? How did it go?

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 23 2014 15:58 GMT

#104104

Maelstrom sucks on AM it does nothing he wants (at least not efficiently) and has the ability to cancel his mana burn which is hilarously bad.

You can go midas on AM but midas + manta AM still can't do anything except rat, but you rat 10x slower because no battlefury. Midas + Manta + Basher + Heart AM can do stuff sure but you actually get there faster if you put a Bfury into the build before manta (eschewing midas completely) and do more DPS too so why not bfury?

Yes the pace of the game currently isn't necessarily that great for AM but the reason for that is because AM lives and dies off of bfury not because AM's aren't smart enough to skip bfury.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 23 2014 16:19 GMT

#104105

You can do something like the older Vanguard->Manta with 4-1-4 skill order maxing the passives early for more damage and up-front fighting ability. But it's doesn't really have as strong of impact as it used to and usually isn't worth it (most of the time I'd do this is because my team is winning really hard without me and I want to get in on kills before the game ends).

On April 24 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
You can go midas on AM but midas + manta AM still can't do anything except rat, but you rat 10x slower because no battlefury. Midas + Manta + Basher + Heart AM can do stuff sure but you actually get there faster if you put a Bfury into the build before manta (eschewing midas completely) and do more DPS too so why not bfury?

Midas+Vlad's is sort of ok because it actually does farm jungle really fast, finishes before BFury, pushes decently quickly because of the Vlad's aura (especially given that even though it kills creep waves slower, it kills towers faster than having just a BFury), and presents an early Rosh threat, but BFury is still usually just better unless your early farm was really uncomfortable. It has a faster 2nd item timing, but slows down a lot compared to BFury in getting your 3rd major item (e.g. you'd get Manta faster, but Heart/BKB way slower), which is the time when AM is strongest normally.

Erasme

Bahamas15899 Posts

April 23 2014 16:24 GMT

#104106

On April 24 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
Maelstrom sucks on AM it does nothing he wants (at least not efficiently) and has the ability to cancel his mana burn which is hilarously bad.

You can go midas on AM but midas + manta AM still can't do anything except rat, but you rat 10x slower because no battlefury. Midas + Manta + Basher + Heart AM can do stuff sure but you actually get there faster if you put a Bfury into the build before manta (eschewing midas completely) and do more DPS too so why not bfury?

Yes the pace of the game currently isn't necessarily that great for AM but the reason for that is because AM lives and dies off of bfury not because AM's aren't smart enough to skip bfury.

maelstrom isnt an orb anymore

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 23 2014 16:25 GMT

#104107

Isn't the proc still an orb when it procs? o.o

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 23 2014 16:25 GMT

#104108

On April 24 2014 01:24 Erasme wrote:
maelstrom isnt an orb anymore

It is, it just isn't an orb on attacks that don't proc it.

Which means you're still overriding Mana Break 1/4 of the time.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 23 2014 16:26 GMT

#104109

5.5k #thetrench

I wonder how legit SnY split AM is.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 23 2014 16:27 GMT

#104110

I've done racecar off-lane AM with 4-1-4 leveling stats over ranks 2-4 Blink.

It was fun, but definitely not good.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 23 2014 16:29 GMT

#104111

Its like the vanguard fighting build except u buy sange instead of VG. U prolly need a vlads tho in that situation which is awkward since ur losing all ur gold-efficiency buying a vlads.

Not sure skipping the off points in blink is right even if it sounds cute. The build i'm envisioning isn't really racecar, it just uses SnY as a stepping stone so that ur not so weak pre-manta or something.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 23 2014 16:37 GMT

#104112

The only real advantage of S&Y over Manta on AM is that it's a somewhat better fighting item than Manta before AM has a primary HP item to make his illusions not instantly explode in fights, and a somewhat better chasing item in scenarios where your Blink is not maxed (if Blink is maxed, it doesn't really matter). It's a slower farming item, and a slower split-pushing item.

The Vanguard has the advantage that is that it's far smoother in lane because you're still getting the RoH, and once you finish the Vanguard, you're really hard to gank successfully and can bait some really stupid shit against people who think they can kill you because Vanguard+Spell Shield means you kind of don't really die to anything.

LuckoftheIrish

United States4791 Posts

April 23 2014 16:38 GMT

#104113

It's like using AM as a Naix. Instead of Drums you're getting Vlad's since you can't be kited as easily with Blink. Then you get Basher, jump on people and smack them to death.

Comeh

United States18919 Posts

April 23 2014 16:42 GMT

#104114

On April 24 2014 01:38 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
It's like using AM as a Naix. Instead of Drums you're getting Vlad's since you can't be kited as easily with Blink. Then you get Basher, jump on people and smack them to death.

Or you could just play Naix.

I've been skipping armlet on him (phase drums S&Y).

I revoke what i said previously, no armlet is good.

LuckoftheIrish

United States4791 Posts

April 23 2014 16:44 GMT

#104115

Well yeah. I never said it was good.

As far as Lifestealer builds go, I don't think the classic YYF Racecar build ever had Armlet in it, and I sorta view the hero as having a choice between Armlet and Drums. I always feel like the two don't really intersect.