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On March 13 2014 01:24 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Unless lol mechanics changed you flash toward the direction of the cursor so if faker anticipated opponents move he would give command, have cursor at a safe location and be ready to flick d/f (default hotkey) as soon as he suspects or sees something.
Yes it's good reaction but near-insta hex when a bat blinks to grab a teammate, etc is just as impressive if not more since it requires 2+ clicks.
Thing is you hexing that bounty a bit later wont matter much, those 2 frames that happened are death/life.
Better comparison would be, you being say a lion with low hp and a ES blinking on top of you from fog and you blinking out of that echo slam, which I haven't seen done in DotA2 yet.
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United States47024 Posts
You have to have already been turning for that to be possible because Echo has no animation and you have to turn to Blink. Which means to pull that off, you have to predict the exact moment he's going to Blink on you without vision of him.
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On March 13 2014 02:10 Andre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 01:24 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Unless lol mechanics changed you flash toward the direction of the cursor so if faker anticipated opponents move he would give command, have cursor at a safe location and be ready to flick d/f (default hotkey) as soon as he suspects or sees something.
Yes it's good reaction but near-insta hex when a bat blinks to grab a teammate, etc is just as impressive if not more since it requires 2+ clicks. Thing is you hexing that bounty a bit later wont matter much, those 2 frames that happened are death/life. Better comparison would be, you being say a lion with low hp and a ES blinking on top of you from fog and you blinking out of that echo slam, which I haven't seen done in DotA2 yet.
Saw something similar with Lion hex today, don't remember what game it happened in. If you saw it you definetely remember it.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Well you also have to turn to use blink, so someone doing it is quite unlikely (or well, impossible against an instant spell).
Edit: as Yango just said.
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On March 13 2014 02:15 Roflhaxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 02:10 Andre wrote:On March 13 2014 01:24 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Unless lol mechanics changed you flash toward the direction of the cursor so if faker anticipated opponents move he would give command, have cursor at a safe location and be ready to flick d/f (default hotkey) as soon as he suspects or sees something.
Yes it's good reaction but near-insta hex when a bat blinks to grab a teammate, etc is just as impressive if not more since it requires 2+ clicks. Thing is you hexing that bounty a bit later wont matter much, those 2 frames that happened are death/life. Better comparison would be, you being say a lion with low hp and a ES blinking on top of you from fog and you blinking out of that echo slam, which I haven't seen done in DotA2 yet. Saw something similar with Lion hex today, don't remember what game it happened in. If you saw it you definetely remember it.
FY lion ftw.
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United States47024 Posts
Actually, it has to be predictive either way because unless he Blinked far enough from you for the Echo Slam projectile to have non-negligible travel time, the time between his Blink and Echo should be zero if he shift-queues them since neither action has an animation.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
I think the closest comparison you would have is if you are running along a tree-line and you phase dodge a hook or arrow. Although that's easier because you don't have to worry about a direction.
But either way, expecting something to come makes it infinitely easier.
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You play Naix and you have pretty low HP, Tinker is ready to blink from fog and hex you. The only chance for Naix to live is to rage before the hex.
I don't think Naix in this situation has even a second to actually react at all when the Tinker queues blink into hex properly, so it would have to be predictive on the Naix's part to rage the hex or am i wrong?
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Yes, you shouldn't be able to rage out unless you're doing it before he blinks.
Although I don't know how perfect the math works out in Dota and if latency comes into play when queuing actions.
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United States47024 Posts
Correct.
If you shift-queue 2 0-animation actions, the delay between them in-game should only be 1 frame. At that point, it's not even a matter of human reaction time--even a robot with instantaneous reactions couldn't rage after the blink but before the hex because even if it pressed rage the moment Tinker appears in front of him, your ping would be higher than the delay between the two actions so by the time the server registered your Rage, you'd be hexed already.
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that was the exact thing on ti3 with xboct having an incredible rage reaction.
however, he might have seen the growd going wild, shortly before the situation occured so he may have know that there might be seme1 w8ing for him. thats increasing his rection time by a big chunk though.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 13 2014 02:24 teapoted wrote:
Although I don't know how perfect the math works out in Dota and if latency comes into play when queuing actions.
DotA 2 essentially buffers queued actions on consecutive frames. This is how Armlet macros worked to toggle Armlet faster than humanly possible because it could buffer Armlet on/off on successive frames (whereas buffered actions in Warcraft 3 required the action to be valid at the time it was issued so an equivalent Armlet macro on Warcraft 3 using something like AutoHotKey is far less effective than a DotA 2 Armlet macro because the rate of toggling would be limited by your ping).
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Shift-queuing blink hex isn't really standard i don't think but w/e. There's still no way you should be able to respond with rage or BKB or w/e regardless of shift queuing.
BKB in response to ravage is considered standard though even if he blinks right next to you. And thats still a pretty small time frame depending on ping.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Well the thing about rage is that in most cases it doesn't hurt to cast it earlier. It's not like it matters if you do it a second before or a millisecond before.
So a lot of times it looks like someone does something amazing when they're just playing safe and they don't know if something is coming.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 13 2014 02:28 Sn0_Man wrote:
BKB in response to ravage is considered standard though even if he blinks right next to you. And thats still a pretty small time frame depending on ping.
Ravage has 0.3s animation + travel time, which is significantly longer than the average human reaction time of ~0.2s.
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Sure but 100 ping before you see the animation then 100 ping until your BKB press reaches the server...
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On March 12 2014 16:42 Stancel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 16:30 Firebolt145 wrote:On March 12 2014 14:37 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Since Fluff is waxing nostalgic about FIRE, I do just want to point out that one of FIRE's first successes involved exploiting the fuck out of a known bug. Remind me what this was? Something about Phase Shift not ending during Chronosphere.
When set to autocast, Phase Shift would go off as soon as Puck was affected by Chronosphere or Rhasta shackles, which were the big ones that game. While Phase Shifted, Puck could use shift queues (I think, it might have just been normal) to move around. So you'd Chrono Puck, he'd Phase Shift and walk through the Chrono. Or you'd be channeling Shackles on nothing while Puck walked into the rest of your team to Waning Rift/Dream Coil. It was BKB, Shukuchi and Phase Shift all in one skill. I bring it up not because that's the first thing that I thought of when I read Fluff's blog about how Team FIRE was sunshine and roses and the most wonderful thing ever. It was really cool seeing a team of unknowns rise to the top as fast as they did. It was less cool when they ruined arguably the most anticipated Dota 2 match to that point outside The International.
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On March 12 2014 16:30 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 14:37 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Since Fluff is waxing nostalgic about FIRE, I do just want to point out that one of FIRE's first successes involved exploiting the fuck out of a known bug. Remind me what this was?
im completely fine with exploiting bugs in tourneys if the tourney rules themselves dont specifically say that u cant use the bug...
u have to remember lots of bugs have been exploited,
ward trapping rosh and bugging his aggro
armlet bear
march of madness being stronger
shadowblade break dmg critting
using shadowblade during attack to get 2 break dmgs
etc...
they just all get fixed by valve if ppl use them, doesn't mean they cant or shudnt when they still exist.
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United States47024 Posts
Most players are honestly probably unknowingly exploiting at least one significant bug in every game they play.
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On March 13 2014 02:27 ScarPe wrote:
that was the exact thing on ti3 with xboct having an incredible rage reaction.
however, he might have seen the growd going wild, shortly before the situation occured so he may have know that there might be seme1 w8ing for him. thats increasing his rection time by a big chunk though.
It's possible the blink was cast as an immediate action rather than shift-queued with some other buffer in there. In that case there will be a delay between the two actions based on the how fast the player clicks the 2nd time. Add that on top of having xboct possibly half-pressing rage to reduce his reaction and it's possible.
Plus for something like TI (esp TI3) I'd imagine everyone has much lower pings than 100. Also what netcode prediction is there? Some games will correct for the lag in determining if some ability gets off or not (or more commonly if a gunshot connected or not).
In general it's pretty nice 1/2 pressing immunity things like rage/bkb/phase shift if you're in a situation where the enemy might initiate on you.
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EPT
