General Discussion - Page 4841

On February 17 2014 12:24 trifecta wrote:
new ogre aghs is fun

On February 17 2014 12:46 Jaaaaasper wrote:

Pretty sure its a nerf to farmed ogres, but w/e I never get more than one item on him anyways.

On February 17 2014 16:14 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
It's a nerf for OMs with one/two big mana items + Agh's, sure, but it's much better for Ogres who can only get one item.

On February 17 2014 16:37 hfglgg wrote:
i dont think situations where it is a nerf happens very often.
if i didnt miscalculate, the new aghs upgrade has one less fireblast from 1600 mana onwards in a fight that lasts at least 36 seconds. less mana than that and the aghs is always better.

On February 17 2014 16:25 Seiuchi wrote:


No it's not, you're still only getting two rotations before you're out of mana. Okay, then you can use unrefined, great, but the 200 or so higher mana cost from the first unrefined means you would've had a third normal fireblast anyways. Like, the buff has such a niche purpose (infinite unrefineds when you have no mana) that it's completely overshadowed by the fact that now getting an item like Eul's or Sheep actually does nothing to help your mana pool because Unrefined steals that much more mana.

On February 17 2014 16:41 Seiuchi wrote:


How many fights actually last 36 seconds? That's extremely rare in dota.

Wand + Arcane's + Agh's raw puts you at like 1300-1400 mana already at 16, if you have any other mana/int items (Force Staff is pretty good to have), 1600 isn't that hard to break.

On February 17 2014 16:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:


With any mana pool above 800, you can BL->Fireblast->Ignite->UF->UF->Fireblast->UF->UF->UF->...

A third Fireblast is a fairly pathetic comparison to 2-3 extra UFs.

On February 17 2014 16:59 Seiuchi wrote:


The point is you're getting one fireblast either way at the 18 second mark. You're getting an extra unrefined at 24 seconds up so you can make it so you can never get more than two double fireblast combos ever?

On February 17 2014 16:56 hfglgg wrote:


that they are extremely rare are in favour of the new aghs (although only slightly). with the new aghs you can get 6 fireblasts off in quick succession with only 600 mana, everything you have above that can be used for items, as a buffer for manadrain or simply spend in earlier fights. (or to farm those delicious creeps)

the old one needed much more mana to do the same. thats the difference between the new aghs and the old one, with the new one you dont need mana anymore, because you will almost always have enough to be the gambling menace ogre magi is.

there are very few cases where the old one has the advantage, because he needed so much more mana to do the same. with 1600 mana he gets one additional fireblast which he can throw right after the spell is off cooldown, but then he is done for good where with the new upgrade he can wait 6 seconds and cast an unrefined fireblast.
this short window (after fireblast is off cooldown the third time, but unrefined is still on cooldown for 6 seconds) is the only time where new aghs does less damage than old.

and i dont think those happen very often to be honest

On February 17 2014 17:06 Seiuchi wrote:


How can you get 6 fireblasts off with 600 mana in quick succession? You can't get off more than 5 considering you're down to 225 mana from double fireblast immediately, and that means you literally have no other mana to cast other spells or item actives.

And this situation happens if you have literally any high mana regen item. Any of them. Eul's, Sheep, Bloodstone, Shiva's, anything.

On February 17 2014 17:06 Seiuchi wrote:


How can you get 6 fireblasts off with 600 mana in quick succession? You can't get off more than 5 considering you're down to 225 mana from double fireblast immediately, and that means you literally have no other mana to cast other spells or item actives.

And this situation happens if you have literally any high mana regen item. Any of them. Eul's, Sheep, Bloodstone, Shiva's, anything.

On February 17 2014 17:15 Seiuchi wrote:
Both of you, level 3 Multicast makes Fireblast 225 mana.

Of course, people don't actually play Ogre and realize this and just theorycraft to tell actual Ogre players this isn't a nerf because it's so good at 24 seconds into fights which doesn't matter. Thanks guys!