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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On September 18 2013 15:12 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 15:03 dfs wrote:
I must elaborate a little. I feel like the Furion is the most fucking retarded hero in the game, but for different reasons he is almost never banned. So, if such a broken hero gets constant playtime and no one really talks about him, then there is a chance that other broken heroes, like Abba will end up in the same spot.
You can talk about how broken some heroes are (the brand new are a bit of a different story, though), but if we have someone like Furion in constant play I don't think the discussions like these have much of a point.
That's just my point of view. In my opinion, unlike all the new hero's types of broken, Prophet's overpowered in pretty one aspect. His global teleport on a low cooldown. Technically, there's ways to counter a prophet(by ganking it), but there's no real way to counter a new broken hero's skill set(Phoenix when it was first released for example,that shit was gay). However this doesn't take into account the player skills involved, good luck in trying to gank a Prophet who has good game sense and does the right things. You will seldom succeed for the amount of effort you put into ganking it. What prophet needs is a slight tweak to it's teleport's cooldown. That will make it more tenable without totally breaking it's strong point.
I completely agree on that. It's just Dota is a game of broken heroes, so there is really no point of talking about how this hero that's been around for forever is broken.
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I think it goes back to our own personal interpretation of what broken is.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On September 18 2013 15:12 trinxified wrote:
How to fix Furion:
1. give more experience and bounty for killing Treants.
2. casting Teleportation will break invisibility.
3. higher cooldown on Nature's Call.
4. higher cooldown on Teleportation.
Actually I only really want the first one to be implemented. The rest I'm fine not being touched.
And it's enough I believe.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Replace all his spells except for teleport with the various iterations of 'Eyes in the Forest'.
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On September 18 2013 15:30 teapoted wrote:
Replace all his spells except for teleport with the various iterations of 'Eyes in the Forest'.
didn't a hero have this spell where you targeted a tree so that you can have sight radius of that specific tree or something silly way back then. i think it was a priest wc3 potm spell but was transferred to a dota on rootfellen or w.e
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On September 18 2013 15:16 dfs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 15:12 Mithhaike wrote:On September 18 2013 15:03 dfs wrote:
I must elaborate a little. I feel like the Furion is the most fucking retarded hero in the game, but for different reasons he is almost never banned. So, if such a broken hero gets constant playtime and no one really talks about him, then there is a chance that other broken heroes, like Abba will end up in the same spot.
You can talk about how broken some heroes are (the brand new are a bit of a different story, though), but if we have someone like Furion in constant play I don't think the discussions like these have much of a point.
That's just my point of view. In my opinion, unlike all the new hero's types of broken, Prophet's overpowered in pretty one aspect. His global teleport on a low cooldown. Technically, there's ways to counter a prophet(by ganking it), but there's no real way to counter a new broken hero's skill set(Phoenix when it was first released for example,that shit was gay). However this doesn't take into account the player skills involved, good luck in trying to gank a Prophet who has good game sense and does the right things. You will seldom succeed for the amount of effort you put into ganking it. What prophet needs is a slight tweak to it's teleport's cooldown. That will make it more tenable without totally breaking it's strong point. I completely agree on that. It's just Dota is a game of broken heroes, so there is really no point of talking about how this hero that's been around for forever is broken.
A long, long time ago, in a version far, far away, Prophet used to be kind of unplayable. This was back when ganking was like ten times as popular as it is now. There's nothing really WRONG with the hero. We'll see him fall back out of favor as soon as Icefrog alters the next version to encourage ganking and fighting over splitpushing, which might be done by a drafting rework or buffing heroes who let you fight early. Maybe making the mid role a rotation-heavy position again would fix things (fuck OD, yeah Magnus). Right now the position is mostly dominated by the silly OD versus OD counter bullshit and the drafting peculiarity that means that picking your mid early hurts you more often than not (choice of mid gives away a lot of your gameplan and leaves you pretty open to being countered).
I guess the concept of OD is kind of cool, but really, he's what's fucking up competitive play right now.
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On September 18 2013 15:33 Kuroeeah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 15:30 teapoted wrote:
Replace all his spells except for teleport with the various iterations of 'Eyes in the Forest'. didn't a hero have this spell where you targeted a tree so that you can have sight radius of that specific tree or something silly way back then. i think it was a priest wc3 potm spell but was transferred to a dota on rootfellen or w.e
That was a Huntress ability named Sentinel, which was researched for 100 gold 100 lumber and I never got it as often as I probably should because goddamn it I wanted bears.
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Anyone remember hero wars? That game was pretty fun.
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the thing about how to balance heros in dota is rarely 'nerf their strongpoint' but more 'make their weak point.. weaker'
For furion, I feel like messing with his TP cd would kill the hero fundamentally.
Trees giving more gold/exp? That would bea real danger. Its so dumb to face NP because he just throws endless waves that dont' even feel rewarding to spam down
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United States13684 Posts
Give trees the Wolf treatment. Making him stand in lane with minimal help and make his jungle super hard.
Sure, he could still do furion things. But it wouldnt be a 100% certainty every time he was picked. Which is really the issue. An AM, for example may go nutz or he may die 8 times and lose in 10 minutes. A furion? If the game goes longer than 15 minutes, you can bet your ass that furion will look exactly the same: on the path to being farmed to shit.
I dont think he is OP though. Just annoying and he gets annoying too often in too unhealthy a way.
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Teleport delay should be longer with distance.
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On September 18 2013 15:27 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 15:12 trinxified wrote:
How to fix Furion:
1. give more experience and bounty for killing Treants.
2. casting Teleportation will break invisibility.
3. higher cooldown on Nature's Call.
4. higher cooldown on Teleportation.
Actually I only really want the first one to be implemented. The rest I'm fine not being touched. And it's enough I believe.
Probably even something like the CD on Teleport starting when you begin to channel would help.
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On September 18 2013 16:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
Give trees the Wolf treatment. Making him stand in lane with minimal help and make his jungle super hard.
Sure, he could still do furion things. But it wouldnt be a 100% certainty every time he was picked. Which is really the issue. An AM, for example may go nutz or he may die 8 times and lose in 10 minutes. A furion? If the game goes longer than 15 minutes, you can bet your ass that furion will look exactly the same: on the path to being farmed to shit.
i don't like that. The Offlane has few enough heros that can be in it
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Honestly bounty and experience fix on Treants should do the trick.
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On September 18 2013 16:20 trinxified wrote:
Honestly bounty and experience fix on Treants should do the trick.
If it worked for "fixing" LD offlane, why not prophet 
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On September 18 2013 16:22 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 16:20 trinxified wrote:
Honestly bounty and experience fix on Treants should do the trick. If it worked for "fixing" LD offlane, why not prophet
Yeah. It's not even just for offlaning, but also when pushing, these Treants do so much tanking and damage but give almost nothing back in return when you kill them.
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On September 18 2013 16:22 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 16:20 trinxified wrote:
Honestly bounty and experience fix on Treants should do the trick. If it worked for "fixing" LD offlane, why not prophet
Nah it was the " Armlet nerf " that killed LD offlane.
Not the bounty.
Treants should give more bounty and experience.
A slight tweak on the scaling of Teleport nerf would suffice I guess.
Icefrog could give him the Lycan/Morph level type of nerf.
It would killed Prophet fundamentally but no one at this point want to see NP doing Rat Dota.
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How was nerfing armlet on bear relevant at all to LD off laning? Wat
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On September 18 2013 16:37 Kuroeeah wrote:
How was nerfing armlet on bear relevant at all to LD off laning? Wat
I can see the argument for the fact that for its cost and build up Armlet was freaking effective. Whereas now it's Radiance or Maelstrom. One requires a massive build up, while the other is not as effective overall.
LD's offlane wasn't nerfed, but his ability to utilise early game farm and exp surely was. Then there was the bear bounty I guess.
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The bear bounty being increased from 100 to 300 was everything to why LD's off lane capabilities aren't as good. Players can actually afford to spam spells (defensive tris) because the bounty the bear gives is basically equivalent to a hero kill now.
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EPT
