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United Kingdom24425 Posts
What exactly is your metric for 'promoting the na scene'.
If Na'Vi plays an amateur team on Lan or EG vs TL / EG vs amateur team.
How is one match 'promoting the na scene' and what's the tangible gain from it. Na'Vi drives more viewers, they're more likely to bring in new viewers, they're more likely to bring more fans to the team they're playing against as well. Not to mention they add legitimacy to a tournament in the US, further 'promoting the na scene'.
I think what we want are different things. What I want from the NA scene is more good teams, more viewers, and more tournaments. What you want is more shitty teams that want free prize money because there's no real competition at NA events.
You don't need to make it easy for amateur teams. SL aint easy for European t2 teams to get any money.
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having 5 professional teams in an event with only 3 Upcoming NA teams is like saying:
Hey guys, join a team and practice for MLG, if you win one tournament you'll be able to blow all the prize money coming out to a couple tournaments you will have very little chance of receiving any money for. Its just not fiscally feasible for any non sponsored team to attempt to be in MLG with the way its being done. having 3 professional teams allows the teams that are growing to actually show they are the best of the new teams and have three of those new teams actually place in the money and pay for at least the flights for their team, which lets those teams come to every event in the season, giving them enough exposure to warrant sponsorships to come their way.
When you have only 1 New team placing in the money every event, you will be looking at one team coming to the next tournament, and a team that want to out of pocket their trip if any, and another random local team (or 2). The team that placed in the money the previous event have immense pressure to place again, essentially saying that they hope they get placed in the opposite end of the bracket as the double pro matchup in the first round. if they don't get placed there, they likely won't place in the money, and likely will not return to another mlg without out of pocket expenses further decreasing their ability to get fans and sponsors.
The system leaked allows for 1 semi pro team to attempt to consistently get exposure rather than the 2 they would get from a 4 pro team tournament, or the 3 they would get from a 3 pro team event.
On September 17 2013 19:46 teapoted wrote:
I think what we want are different things. What I want from the NA scene is more good teams, more viewers, and more tournaments. What you want is more shitty teams that want free prize money because there's no real competition at NA events.
nah dude. what you want is another world LAN event you can watch. you don't want a thriving NA scene. What i want is a system that doesn't collapse when funds run dry over the course of a season.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
You're aware of the full sail tournament?
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On September 17 2013 20:02 teapoted wrote:
You're aware of the full sail tournament?
I'd hope so. its 45 minutes from my home.
are you aware of how expensive it is to travel in the US?
Sponsorship money doesn't fall from the sky, you need to show consistent ability to provide exposure to the people sponsoring you. If you can't afford to go to enough MLGs to prove you aren't going away suddenly, how can you expect a sponsor to back you?
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Presumably less expensive than it is to travel in europe in a lot of cases. I can get from NY to Las Vegas for the same amount it would cost me to fly to Romania.
I don't know, let me just check how all the amateur teams in Europe do it... oh wait. They play online tournaments to get results which then gets them sponsorship, how about that. Or they pay for themselves.
I'm done with this discussion, you seem to think amateur teams need to be given the perfect opportunities to exist. When the perfect opportunities don't exist in any scene. EU/SEA/CH/NA all have their own unique problems. And if anything, what MLG is doing is better than anything EU has for amateur teams (EMS would be closest, but EMS is supposed to have more pro teams they just don't want to show up). But that won't stop Americans from whining about why their scene isn't bigger, it's never good enough.
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I'm getting little frustrated with the matchmaking. The game are just too incredibly easy and there seems to be no progres in my MM regardless of how much I win. It just feels so unfair when I go soloque and I totally rape everything, not because I'm good but because the matchamking can't put me in legit games.
Broodmother and timber are automatic lanewins in my trench...
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On September 17 2013 20:12 Ryndika wrote:
I'm getting little frustrated with the matchmaking. The game are just too incredibly easy and there seems to be no progres in my MM regardless of how much I win. It just feels so unfair when I go soloque and I totally rape everything, not because I'm good but because the matchamking can't put me in legit games.
Broodmother and timber are automatic lanewins in my trench...
Just for curiosity how many games have you played and whats your winrate?
Link to your dotabuff would be interesting as well.
But aside from that MM works pretty well for me. Sadly there are some idiots in my games and it becomes a stop one way or the other but thats just what dota does to you. Everyone plays like an idiot from time to time.
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On September 17 2013 20:07 teapoted wrote:
Presumably less expensive than it is to travel in europe in a lot of cases. I can get from NY to Las Vegas for the same amount it would cost me to fly to Romania.
I don't know, let me just check how all the amateur teams in Europe do it... oh wait. They play online tournaments to get results which then gets them sponsorship, how about that. Or they pay for themselves.
I'm done with this discussion, you seem to think amateur teams need to be given the perfect opportunities to exist. When the perfect opportunities don't exist in any scene. EU/SEA/CH/NA all have their own unique problems. And if anything, what MLG is doing is better than anything EU has for amateur teams (EMS would be closest, but EMS is supposed to have more pro teams they just don't want to show up). But that won't stop Americans from whining about why their scene isn't bigger, it's never good enough.
Some people just can't accept that their country is trash at something. Being Scottish, this comes very easily to me. :D
Mind you, the NA scene isn't even that bad; I have no idea why anyone thinks it needs (or will even benefit from) some insular league that has a bunch of mediocre teams competing to see who's the least mediocre. If you want to be a world player, you have to play the world. The best way to improve is to play people better than you, not people who are your equals.
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On September 17 2013 20:07 teapoted wrote:
I'm done with this discussion, you seem to think amateur teams need to be given the perfect opportunities to exist. When the perfect opportunities don't exist in any scene. EU/SEA/CH/NA all have their own unique problems. And if anything, what MLG is doing is better than anything EU has for amateur teams. But that won't stop Americans from whining about why their scene isn't bigger, it's never good enough.
No sir. I think that in order to create a group of semi pro teams, there need to be more than an opportunity for a single team to shine because by definition a group is more than a single entity. Starladder Dreamhacks ect have all had at least half t2 or worse teams in european events, which is satisfactory as it gives at least half of the t2 teams a chance to show they have provide consistent results. MLG is saying, hey, lets have as little as 25% of our event be t2 teams or worse. which is better from a quality of event standpoint, but significantly worse for actually letting the t2 teams do anything but get knocked out immediately and then never pickup sponsors. Hell they invited Fnatic. a bad european t1 team, who happens to have one of the largest fanbases. You'd think if they were going for a team that likely isn't going to place in the top half of the event they'd at least give that opportunity to a team that needs it. this isn't a european charity tournament series.
I'm glad this discussion is over, because whenever you speak of the NA scene you do so only with condescension and spite.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 17 2013 20:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 20:07 teapoted wrote:
I'm done with this discussion, you seem to think amateur teams need to be given the perfect opportunities to exist. When the perfect opportunities don't exist in any scene. EU/SEA/CH/NA all have their own unique problems. And if anything, what MLG is doing is better than anything EU has for amateur teams. But that won't stop Americans from whining about why their scene isn't bigger, it's never good enough. I'm glad this discussion is over, because whenever you speak of the NA scene you do so only with condescension and spite. If anything I have more faith in the NA scene than you.
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You 2 should get a room imo 
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On September 17 2013 20:31 Mithhaike wrote:You 2 should get a room imo
Maybe next dreamhack, you down buddy? I'll make the trip from FL. we can do an MLG orlando -> dreamhack sweden exchange system.
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On September 17 2013 20:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 20:07 teapoted wrote:
I'm done with this discussion, you seem to think amateur teams need to be given the perfect opportunities to exist. When the perfect opportunities don't exist in any scene. EU/SEA/CH/NA all have their own unique problems. And if anything, what MLG is doing is better than anything EU has for amateur teams. But that won't stop Americans from whining about why their scene isn't bigger, it's never good enough. No sir. I think that in order to create a group of semi pro teams, there need to be more than an opportunity for a single team to shine because by definition a group is more than a single entity. Starladder Dreamhacks ect have all had at least half t2 or worse teams in european events, which is satisfactory as it gives at least half of the t2 teams a chance to show they have provide consistent results. MLG is saying, hey, lets have as little as 25% of our event be t2 teams or worse. which is better from a quality of event standpoint, but significantly worse for actually letting the t2 teams do anything but get knocked out immediately and then never pickup sponsors. Hell they invited Fnatic. a bad european t1 team, who happens to have one of the largest fanbases. You'd think if they were going for a team that likely isn't going to place in the top half of the event they'd at least give that opportunity to a team that needs it. this isn't a european charity tournament series. I'm glad this discussion is over, because whenever you speak of the NA scene you do so only with condescension and spite.
um... mlg already had an entire open tournament and then an entire streamed NA league for the top placers, top placers of that going to full sail and 1st place gets a slot at the big MLG event, this isnt just one single MLG event
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Well I don't live in Sweden so I've never actually gone to a Dreamhack.
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On September 17 2013 20:33 teapoted wrote:
Well I don't live in Sweden so I've never actually gone to a Dreamhack.
 what a disappointment.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
You can come see the thriving UK Dota scene.
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So being in the top 8 of TI3 makes you a bad team ? Oke buddy.
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On September 17 2013 20:36 teapoted wrote:
You can come see the thriving UK Dota scene.
I've heard its a bunch of angry red men yelling alternately at the game, eachother, and the waitress bringing them their next drink.
close? :D <3
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
The UK scene involves a bottle of whisky and fibre optics to watch something other than UK Dota.
The last big UK tournament was won by a French team. Jeez if they only would nationalise the scene there would be more room to grow without all these French teams coming over taking the prize money.
Cough.
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Brits too busy focusing on TF2 and shit.
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EPT
