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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:03 ch33psh33p wrote: He's balanced around the randomness. It would be far too strong if you could choose who to toss via closeness. DO NOT RUN, WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS Although you can kinda pull that off anyway. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:03 ch33psh33p wrote: He's balanced around the randomness. It would be far too strong if you could choose who to toss via closeness. Wait what? I am sure that tiny chooses it's nearest target to toss, thats why you position yourself in a certain way that you only toss what you want to toss? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:06 Mithhaike wrote: Wait what? I am sure that tiny chooses it's nearest target to toss, thats why you position yourself in a certain way that you only toss what you want to toss? No, it selects a random target within 275 range of you. You are correct that you position yourself in a certain way to toss a specific person, but that's by making the only unit within 275 range of you is the desired target. The skill description even SAYS its random (at least the DotA 2 one does, the DotA 1 skill description incorrectly says its the nearest unit). | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:06 TheYango wrote: If it was based on distance, Ava-Toss would be a guaranteed kill in a lot of situations where he'd otherwise be taking a risk due to the random target selection. It'd make the hero a LOT stronger. Might not necessarily be a bad thing. Allows for a hell of a lot more cool combos. Maybe you could even run a trilane where he initiates by throwing a stomper like Centaur. You know, stupid things like that. Also makes Lothar's initiation really scary, because you can WW in and Toss a target back to be picked off. Or do Batrider-style blink-in force-out combos. You'll note all this stuff is fairly stupid. I recognize this. I just like coming up with these amusements. | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:16 Acritter wrote: Might not necessarily be a bad thing. Allows for a hell of a lot more cool combos. Maybe you could even run a trilane where he initiates by throwing a stomper like Centaur. You know, stupid things like that. Also makes Lothar's initiation really scary, because you can WW in and Toss a target back to be picked off. Or do Batrider-style blink-in force-out combos. You'll note all this stuff is fairly stupid. I recognize this. I just like coming up with these amusements. you can already do a lot of this w/ good positioning | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:24 Shaella wrote: you can already do a lot of this w/ good positioning And in turn it can be stopped by good positioning. Currently, a farming Tiny CANNOT immediately turn and Toss a stunner into the fray. He needs to turn and get into position first. This is a clear warning and sends the enemy team running for their lives. With the discussed change, he can start doing that in a heartbeat. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:16 Acritter wrote: Might not necessarily be a bad thing. Allows for a hell of a lot more cool combos. Maybe you could even run a trilane where he initiates by throwing a stomper like Centaur. You know, stupid things like that. Also makes Lothar's initiation really scary, because you can WW in and Toss a target back to be picked off. Or do Batrider-style blink-in force-out combos. You'll note all this stuff is fairly stupid. I recognize this. I just like coming up with these amusements. I've done all those moves already. Usually with a blink dagger. As avalanche has a longer cooldown then toss, quite often I find myself with a avaliable blink and a toss. What I do next depending on the situation, is either blink in toss that unit by itself OR blink in toss the enemy to my allies at the back. As for randomness of toss, maybe because I am extremely used to playing Tiny I do not have that issue. Tiny is my favourite DOTA2 hero alongside pudge. It's really not hard to ensure that your positioning is right to toss only the thing you want to toss. Just lots of practice. I am extremely proficient at it lol | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
theres still alot of unneccessary randomness in the game and it really annoys me. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:16 Acritter wrote: Might not necessarily be a bad thing. Allows for a hell of a lot more cool combos. Maybe you could even run a trilane where he initiates by throwing a stomper like Centaur. You know, stupid things like that. Also makes Lothar's initiation really scary, because you can WW in and Toss a target back to be picked off. Or do Batrider-style blink-in force-out combos. You'll note all this stuff is fairly stupid. I recognize this. I just like coming up with these amusements. The problem is not any of that, the problem is that it makes the much more common use case of Blink (or Lothar's)->Ava-Toss way more reliable in many cases. Ava-Toss' absurd damage is balanced around the fact that you can only reliably do it when the target is the only thing toss-able in range. If someone is farming among 4-5 creeps, you only could get a 1/6 chance of getting full Ava-Toss damage, meaning that's a pretty risky kill to go for. If you could blink in and guarantee tossing them every time, that suddenly opens up a ton of kills that Tiny couldn't safely go for before. All other interactions aside, it would make the hero ridiculously strong. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:39 TheYango wrote: The problem is not any of that, the problem is that it makes the much more common use case of Blink (or Lothar's)->Ava-Toss way more reliable in many cases. Ava-Toss' absurd damage is balanced around the fact that you can only reliably do it when the target is the only thing toss-able in range. If someone is farming among 4-5 creeps, you only could get a 1/6 chance of getting full Ava-Toss damage, meaning that's a pretty risky kill to go for. If you could blink in and guarantee tossing them every time, that suddenly opens up a ton of kills that Tiny couldn't safely go for before. All other interactions aside, it would make the hero ridiculously strong. Fair enough. I'd kind of like to see that possible attribute of the hero focused on a little, as it would offer a bit of variety, but he's different enough of a hero already. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:39 TheYango wrote: The problem is not any of that, the problem is that it makes the much more common use case of Blink (or Lothar's)->Ava-Toss way more reliable in many cases. Ava-Toss' absurd damage is balanced around the fact that you can only reliably do it when the target is the only thing toss-able in range. If someone is farming among 4-5 creeps, you only could get a 1/6 chance of getting full Ava-Toss damage, meaning that's a pretty risky kill to go for. If you could blink in and guarantee tossing them every time, that suddenly opens up a ton of kills that Tiny couldn't safely go for before. All other interactions aside, it would make the hero ridiculously strong. Actually, you can still go for it. Avalanche should be killing off creeps easily enough and that will increase your chances. It's just practice and knowing what can you go for what can't you go for. You should get in from the side of the creep wave that's closest to the hero, avalanche and wait a few sec before toss. It's hard to describe, but it's definitely doable. Yes I know you wont get full combo damage, but it's still 2 spells worth of damage and it's still extremely painful for the enemy hero, not to mention your a tiny that has insane right click damage too. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On September 11 2013 11:32 teddyoojo wrote: stuff like random target is a completly dumb and unneccessary thing. theres still alot of unneccessary randomness in the game and it really annoys me. How about Mirana's Starfall? How to fix that? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 12:14 trinxified wrote: How about Mirana's Starfall? How to fix that? That's an easy one. Replace "random" with "closest." A good challenge would be Shadow Catcher, critical strikes, or uphill attack mechanics. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
that will make the game much better | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 11 2013 12:29 FinestHour wrote: ya we can get rid of random crits and random uphill miss and random draft and all random that will make the game much better That's exactly my point. There are lots of random things that introduce variance into the game without making it a coinflip. Thinking that random=bad is just naive. Those random details are at the core of the game, and removing them will be harmful. | ||
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tube
United States1475 Posts
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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