EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3241
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 04 2013 01:55 icystorage wrote: nyx has no cs, but OD will have no mana assuming he doesnt bottle. if your a support nyx, would you consider that a win? what is really wrong (for nyx) with this match up? He still free-farms, mana or not. Nyx is good against OD later, but I don't think under any circumstance I'd call it an advantageous lane. On July 04 2013 01:59 Comeh wrote: If you really want to beat OD mid, lane Sniper against him. Fuck that matchup. Is coming to lane with a 20 damage advantage not good enough? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:01 TheYango wrote: He still free-farms, mana or not. Nyx is good against OD later, but I don't think under any circumstance I'd call it an advantageous lane. Is coming to lane with a 20 damage advantage not good enough? ...I've lost the matchup before. It might have been something about being ganked 3 times. Not sure. I blame the sniper. He pretty much just sat right clicking me, with a 90% headshot proc ratio. irrefutable proof - http://dotabuff.com/matches/69180400 | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On July 04 2013 01:55 icystorage wrote: i brought this up in the alienware LR thread but wasnt really satisfied. Can you use a soulring nyx to counter OD in mid? nyx has no cs, but OD will have no mana assuming he doesnt bottle. if your a support nyx, would you consider that a win? what is really wrong (for nyx) with this match up? Well, "mid nyx" and "support nyx" are not the same thing. Mid nyx is there to hit 6 asap and basically seize complete map control. Presumably you would be maxing mana burn in the situation described, which if nothing else severely limits your early game damage output against many heroes and kinda runs against the whole point of fast-6 mid nyx. You get a soul ring with passive gold around 3 minutes into the game if you go to lane with only soul-ring parts. So by the time you get it OD has already acquired ~20 lasthits and likely 15 or so denies. In which case you aren't getting 6 at a reasonable time anyways due to all the XP being denied you so you just threw away the entire goal of "mid nyx". And lost your lane horribly in the process. Plus, while nyx has higher base hp regen than almost any hero in the game, he will still likely struggle to support constant soul ring useage against the harass potential of an OD. Spamming the manaburn wont be enough to keep OD at low life assuming he gets tranquil boots anyway, and if he opts for a bottle he can utterly ignore everything you are trying to do to him at the cost of a measly 300 gold investment once the bottle is sold. TL;DR: Nope, its a disaster. Maybe back when level 1 mana burn did 5x int you had a chance, (not really but some people are bad at OD mid). Now that its 3.5 at level 1, you simply won't achieve anything. Nyx IS good at ganking an OD mid though since if you do it right the mana burn will get rid of his "emergency astral" mana and allow you to kill him. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I think my vote is for SF. Just don't let him get even 1 lasthit else ur boned. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I wonder what sniper's best mid matchup is. I think my vote is for SF. Just don't let him get even 1 lasthit else ur boned. Sniper's base damage is as low as SF though. No way you could deny him. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I wonder what sniper's best mid matchup is. I think my vote is for SF. Just don't let him get even 1 lasthit else ur boned. Suddenly, SF hits level 3 and razes (thought there was a z in there) things. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
they are like opposites or some shit #petpeeves | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:04 Comeh wrote: ...I've lost the matchup before. It might have been something about being ganked 3 times. Not sure. I blame the sniper. He pretty much just sat right clicking me, with a 90% headshot proc ratio. irrefutable proof - http://dotabuff.com/matches/69180400 Yeah but you lost mid to an ES as OD before. Granted the ES was ARTEEZY!! HOLY SHIT!! So maybe that game is invalid. praise be to the most high, rtz. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
rag on comeh day should be a holiday | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:13 crms wrote: Yeah but you lost mid to an ES as OD before. Granted the ES was ARTEEZY!! HOLY SHIT!! So maybe that game is invalid. praise be to the most high, rtz. I wasn't drunk this game. Also ground pound doesn't cost much mana apparently. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:14 Comeh wrote: I wasn't drunk this game. Also ground pound doesn't cost much mana apparently. I'm just making fun, I love you comeh. Nobody can win vs Rtz mid on any hero except maybe yajirobefromDC in a SF mirror. If you wanna make fun of me back, remember when weppas smoke ganked me like 3x in 5 minutes?  | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Okay fine maybe I didn't think that one through. However, Sniper's animation ought to be enough to give him the edge pre-3. iunno. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On July 04 2013 02:19 Sn0_Man wrote: Sniper has a 1-damage advantage on SF (35-41 vs 36-42). Hue. Okay fine maybe I didn't think that one through. However, Sniper's animation ought to be enough to give him the edge pre-3. iunno. Sniper probably wins in level 1-2...but eventually, as long as the SF is competent, the raze pressure will be too much. Ganks will tell the tale of the matchup, though. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Shrapnel and Take Aim are both stronger for suppressing melees than ranged heroes. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
 ). The only hero who can beat OD without beeing extremely lucky or pooled is imho Sylla.There are some heroes though who may not win the lane but at least get decent cs. Some of those are Beastmaster/TA/Kunkka/BS/Gyro/Bone. Generally the key to win against OD is to bumrush him on lvl 1/2 which is obviously only possible with certain heroes (Slark for example; although it didnt work in this game this is how it should be done http://dotabuff.com/matches/232786041). If the OD is worse than you it may be possible to win an extremely uneven matchup by doing that and consecutively pushing the lane to grab runes and roam. EDIT: In a vacuum (no gangs) sniper is actually a pretty strong hero against heroes who cant bumrush him, and even then he is not that bad when getting a wraith + pooled flask | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
as comeh said the lane is actually decided by whichever support realizes that their is a sniper vs sf mid and just goes for a kill. | ||
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