EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3210
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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babishh
Canada965 Posts
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
On June 29 2013 09:33 Itsmedudeman wrote: Speaking of OD mid... who even does well against him or can at least go even? I can't think of a single matchup that could be good. Maybe lone druid? Not much, but a few that do decently (they aren't counters, but they can hold their own) are viper, venomancer and sniper. All 3 being agi heroes don't have their damage drained when they are astraled. Viper's passive allows him to still have a strong last hitting ability against OD, and he can wear OD down with his orb, which isn't mana intensive. Venomancer's passive allows him to wear Od down as well. Sniper out ranges OD and can be annoying since he can land hits on OD, and if OD makes a move to try to astral he can simply walk back while OD gets hit by creeps. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 09:33 Itsmedudeman wrote: Speaking of OD mid... who even does well against him or can at least go even? I can't think of a single matchup that could be good. Maybe lone druid? Venomancer does pretty well, lion as well. they don't win the lane unless you outplay the OD though. but both do pretty well. but they definitely aren't standard mids anymore. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
http://www.dota-academy.com/match/4141/ This was the match, EG vs Quantic. Demon did pretty well in the lane vs OD IIRC. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:06 PrinceXizor wrote: Venomancer does pretty well, lion as well. they don't win the lane unless you outplay the OD though. but both do pretty well. but they definitely aren't standard mids anymore. Lion gets crushed unless you're talking to setting up ganks. He has fairly low base damage already and unless OD gets really unlucky, Lion won't have mana at 6 for a full combo, which means OD shouldn't die unless he gets cocky. Venomancer is ok, but pretty much has to rely on his passive. Sylla is good against him, Broodmother wins if she gets to Soul Ring without losing the lane (she doesn't need base mana because Soul Ring adds enough mana to use Spawn Spiderlings, and OD has no way to deal with them). Viper does fine, but whether he "wins" depends on the players and how they play their advantages at various levels. Most other matchups that can win have to abuse particular timings to get an advantage. For example Bat can win if he can successfully all-in at level 2 otherwise he loses. Enchantress is stronger level 1/2 and if she abuses properly she can zone OD off creeps entirely, but if she doesn't abuse this she gets crushed. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:07 icystorage wrote: one thing that some pros do (which is very effective btw) is when a creep gets to low health, OD astrals the enemy then denies the creep. they just dont spam it upon cooldown Yepp. Playing against a decent od is one of the worst things I can think of. I do think, without having tried it, that skywrath mage could be decent against him though. Your spells outranges ODs astral, does a lot of damage, and costs very little mana. So he will be forced to astral himself to dodge the spells all the time, leaving you free to farm. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:10 TheYango wrote: Lion gets crushed unless you're talking to setting up ganks. He has fairly low base damage already and unless OD gets really unlucky, Lion won't have mana at 6 for a full combo, which means OD shouldn't die unless he gets cocky. Venomancer is ok, but pretty much has to rely on his passive. Shouldn't you be just draining mana from OD so he has to bottle crow to keep astraling you? inherently giving you the mana to get a lvl 6 combo off to kill OD. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:12 PrinceXizor wrote: Shouldn't you be just draining mana from OD so he has to bottle crow to keep astraling you? inherently giving you the mana to get a lvl 6 combo off to kill OD. you cant pull of the combo if your max mana pool is low (due to int steal) even when you have full mana | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:14 icystorage wrote: you cant pull of the combo if your max mana pool is low (due to int steal) even when you have full mana uhhhh. when he has to bottle crow to keep astrals he'll have a window that the int steal wears off, which is the point of it. i'm aware how heroes work. | ||
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CustomKal
Canada749 Posts
On June 29 2013 09:33 Itsmedudeman wrote: Speaking of OD mid... who even does well against him or can at least go even? I can't think of a single matchup that could be good. Maybe lone druid? Just won an SF mid by playing chen and getting a storm harpy. Arguably I feel this is totally worth it since shutting OD out of his biggest impact portion of the game makes that big a difference since he never really catches up. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:16 CustomKal wrote: Just won an SF mid by playing chen and getting a storm harpy. Arguably I feel this is totally worth it since shutting OD out of his biggest impact portion of the game makes that big a difference since he never really catches up. better question is: is there a single hero that does well vs storm harpy mid? EDIT: apart from obvious chen/enchantress. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:17 PrinceXizor wrote: better question is: is there a single hero that does well vs storm harpy mid? Enchantress should do fine. Doom as well. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:15 PrinceXizor wrote: uhhhh. when he has to bottle crow to keep astrals he'll have a window that the int steal wears off, which is the point of it. i'm aware how heroes work. but the duration of the steal is 60 seconds... | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The difference in base damage is 10+ at level 1 even if he doesn't use Astral (Lion has ~45 damage level 1, OD has ~56), and even if he can only maintain 1 Astral on you per minute, a 20+ damage differential is more than enough for you to get absolutely nothing if the OD player is any good. This is the scary part about OD vs any Intelligence hero. Every Astral is an 8/12/16/20 damage difference between the two of you. He doesn't need a lot of them to totally dominate you, especially since with a few rare exceptions, his base damage is already inherently higher. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:18 icystorage wrote: but the duration of the steal is 60 seconds... yeah and the 30 seconds it takes to bottle crow should get you up to 24 int back which is 312 mana which is like 8 mana off of a full combo. if he's spamming astral on you that is. if he's not you'll have the 320 mana to spend unless you mismanage your mana somehow with a 2/0/3/1 build. OD shouldn't ever have enough mana to astral you more than twice without needing to refill a bottle with that. and its not exactly possible for OD to drain you below 10 mana so you can't drain him. On June 29 2013 10:21 TheYango wrote: A guaranteed kill at 6 doesn't even win you the lane as Lion. OD just crushes you for the first 6 levels, gets killed, and recovers while your ult is down because his stats are just better than yours. The difference in base damage is 10+ at level 1 even if he doesn't use Astral (Lion has ~45 damage level 1, OD has ~56), and even if he can only maintain 1 Astral on you per minute, a 20+ damage differential is more than enough for you to get absolutely nothing if the OD player is any good. This is the scary part about OD vs any Intelligence hero. Every Astral is an 8/12/16/20 damage difference between the two of you. He doesn't need a lot of them to totally dominate you, especially since with a few rare exceptions, his base damage is already inherently higher. Lion wouldn't/shouldn't need to rush bottle with 2/0/3/1, so he can start a more aggressive null talisman tango start lowering the difference in base damage by about 7. so a 11 damage difference isn't insurmountable for last hits. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2013 10:29 TheYango wrote: You don't even get anything out of Drain max until level 5 because at levels 1 and 2, Drain CD isn't faster than Astral, so if you try to Drain him on CD, he'll just save Astral to break Drain. if he's saving astral hes not keeping your int low and you can do fine in lane last hitting wise early. | ||
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