EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2786
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On May 09 2013 21:49 cecek wrote: Sure, you might do well in the laning phase, but after that the puck is just food. If he eats the silence he's just dead... it's 6 seconds he can't do anything and all magic damage dealt to his is amplified. Skymage's silence is 700 range too, it's very hard to play around that as a puck. I think Dendi played SM against Demon's Puck and Demon got solo killed like 3 times, iirc. Not saying that's representative of the matchup, but at least it's something. I am not really a fan of Dendi but. His solo mid skills is still better than Demon. Put Scandal on Puck and it's a different story. Frankly speaking,even if you can't win against SM. Just bottlecrow and you be fine. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:07 FakeDeath wrote: Frankly speaking,even if you can't win against SM. Just bottlecrow and you be fine. You really won't. It's trivial for skywrath to out-damage bottle-crow regen. | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
EDIT: whoops, wrong thread D: | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:14 Sn0_Man wrote: You really won't. It's trivial for skywrath to out-damage bottle-crow regen. You just long range nuke down the waves so that he can never engage you. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: You just long range nuke down the waves so that he can never engage you. That depends heavily on which hero you are playing as. I guess for Puck it can work but is far from optimal. Not dieing isn't necessarily doing fine. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: You just long range nuke down the waves so that he can never engage you. I definitely think that is your best option. The problem is that SM is gonna be seriously pressuring you at level 3, and not many heroes can long-range nuke the wave too effectively at level 3. Sure, you can orb for a lasthit or 2 as puck and keep the lane pushed, but I don't think that solves all your problems. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Optimal is just not dying. If skywrath doesn't get fed in lane what is he gonna contribute exactly? He has no ability to flash farm so if he isn't getting kills he will fall behind. He can start killing at 6. Not getting kills before that isn't the end of the world for SM, specially if he dominates the lane leaving a puck with little farm and underleved. | ||
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:22 SKC wrote: He can start killing at 6. Not getting kills before that isn't the end of the world for SM, specially if he dominates the lane leaving a puck with little farm and underleved. If he isn't getting kills he will fall behind He can start killing at 6 You're making the assumption that there will be opportunities for him to pick up kills and I'm saying if he doesn't get these opportunities then he becomes useless. | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:23 Fwizzz wrote: Something is wrong. Last week was winning most of matches, but this week has been hell. Been losing to much. Oh i feel you brother. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fNYSLhI.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BJfIvdm.jpg) Before that, 8 game winning streak. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Nth has had some really crazy matches. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: If he isn't getting kills he will fall behind He can start killing at 6 You're making the assumption that there will be opportunities for him to pick up kills and I'm saying if he doesn't get these opportunities then he becomes useless. Whether he can start getting kills later on is a completelly diferent discussion than whether a Puck is doing fine if he is not getting killed after 3 because he can stay far away using orbs for creeps and bottle crowing. In that particular situation, you don't have to get kills, crushing your lane should be enough. If he doesn't get kills the whole game of course he isn't doing fine, but that's obviously not what we are talking about. On May 10 2013 00:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Optimal is just not dying. If skywrath doesn't get fed in lane what is he gonna contribute exactly? He has no ability to flash farm so if he isn't getting kills he will fall behind. Getting fed inlane ussually implies multiple kills early game. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:53 SKC wrote: Whether he can start getting kills later on is a completelly diferent discussion than whether a Puck is doing fine if he is not getting killed after 3 because he can stay far away using orbs for creeps and bottle crowing. In that particular situation, you don't have to get kills, crushing your lane should be enough. If he doesn't get kills the whole game of course he isn't doing fine, but that's obviously not what we are talking about. Getting fed inlane ussually implies multiple kills early game. Then you have to make a decision on how badly you can lose before it becomes an issue for your team? I think we agree that if puck and SM have equal farm then the puck won the lane significantly, but how far ahead does the skywrath have to be for him to have won the lane? You're talking as if the puck is getting zoned completely out of lane not even getting exp which I don't see happening. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:53 teapoted wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-pUXWo4q6E Nth has had some really crazy matches. Bout time people started making more of these for teams other than Na`Vi. This is so good <3 | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On May 10 2013 00:53 teapoted wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-pUXWo4q6E Nth has had some really crazy matches. s4 is miles ahead of everyone else in NTH. God damn he is solid. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On May 10 2013 01:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Then you have to make a decision on how badly you can lose before it becomes an issue for your team? I think we agree that if puck and SM have equal farm then the puck won the lane significantly, but how far ahead does the skywrath have to be for him to have won the lane? You're talking as if the puck is getting zoned completely out of lane not even getting exp which I don't see happening. If he stays far away just farming with orbs, bottle crowing and not getting near enough to be silenced, he will not be close to SM in LHs and he will lose XP from some creeps. I don't think he necessarily has to do that, but that was the mentioned scenario where Puck would already do fine. Also, you said he needs to get fed inlane, and a midlane where you get 2-3 kills early on is a lane you crush very hard, far ahead on XP and gold, which isn't really a necessity. On May 10 2013 01:04 Firebolt145 wrote: Bout time people started making more of these for teams other than Na`Vi. This is so good <3 At lot of those highlight videos were from Navi's own channel, so it kinda made sense they appeared so often. More teams should have an active youtube channel imo, Navi really does a good job with that. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On May 10 2013 01:05 Grettin wrote: There are few teams where he wouldn't be miles ahead of everyone else.s4 is miles ahead of everyone else in NTH. God damn he is solid. Although to be fair he just plays heroes that have the capacity. Even a mediocre puck player will look more impressive than any hard-carry or non-flashy support hero. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On May 10 2013 01:06 SKC wrote: If he stays far away just farming with orbs, bottle crowing and not getting near enough to be silenced, he will not be close to SM in LHs and he will lose XP from some creeps. I don't think he necessarily has to do that, but that was the mentioned scenario where Puck would already do fine. Also, you said he needs to get fed inlane, and a midlane where you get 2-3 kills early on is a lane you crush very hard, far ahead on XP and gold, which isn't really a necessity. At lot of those highlight videos were from Navi's own channel, so it kinda made sense they appeared so often. More teams should have an active youtube channel imo, Navi really does a good job with that. I said he needs to get kills, not get kills in lane. I'll say that is poorly worded on my part. If skywrath is zoning the enemy mid completely so that he is getting significantly less exp/gold then he can come out ahead. How much ahead he needs to be is something we can quantify, but it would depend on the development of the game itself and skywrath isn't going to zone a hero completely unless he gets a kill on them early to snowball his advantage. If skywrath gets a kill on you it is likely that he can 100 -> 0 you with the level advantage he gained, but it is very unlikely to happen unless you've made a mistake already. Additionally you only have to stay far away if you're in the sweet spot where he can kill you. Skywrath does a lot of damage, but he can't burst many heroes from 100 -> 0 early on in the game. There is a point where you can farm in lane still and when you're low enough that you need to farm from a distance with orb. It isn't black and white where at level 3 you're suddenly zoned completely out of lane for the rest of the game. | ||
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