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On May 02 2013 18:05 akatama wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 18:00 Nevuk wrote:On May 02 2013 14:13 FinestHour wrote:
everytime mistmare goes jungle huskar he just wins
it just blows my mind How does jungle huskar even work? Start naked => rush Morbid Mask => everything else Skill-wise I believe you start with and max Berserker's Blood, heal secondary, skip Spears completely. At least that is how someone was doing it during AtoD (I think it was singx2, but not 100% sure).
I've tried this even with random gold and somehow edit - failed really hard at jungling
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On May 02 2013 18:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 18:15 Kishin2 wrote:On May 02 2013 17:59 RuskiPanda wrote:
The problem is that Nightstalker doesn't really need to stack ms once you get enough ranks in his passive.. There are far more critical pickups that ~1400 gold could be going towards like Armlet, bkb, aghanims, etc. Having a ton of small, useful items like your core is nice but once people start finishing midgame items you start to fall way behind because you have to sell to free up slots. It'll delay any extra item by ~700 gold. If anything the urn/medallion is a bit much. No one gets medallion nowadays and support getting urn or replacing wand with urn might be better. On May 02 2013 18:00 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 02 2013 17:48 Kishin2 wrote:
Noticed Jeyo playing Nightstalker on his stream with power treads and had a thought. I usually get phase boots on him but now I'm thinking it'd be pretty legitimate to get both treads and phase boots. There are only a handful of items that give +ms and tread switching is really good especially with a bottle.
Core build: bottle, wand, phase, treads, urn/medallion
You always need one pair of boots so the options are: drums + phase, drums + treads, or treads + phase. Normally I'd get drums instead of one of the boots. but phase boots give twice the damage of drums and more +ms with phase than drums + its active. Drums also give +14 AS (+24 w/ active) while treads always give +30 AS. This with how good tread switching is with bottle, double boots build on Nightstalker should be good. How is that a core build? You have no slots left for anything important like a bkb, or hell, armlet. Also, you're trying to compare drums to both treads + phase. Try comparing it to one of the items while you already have + move speed accounted. It's not worth it. I compared drums to phase and treads separately. Phase boots give more +ms (+16%) than drums even with a charge (+15%). Treads give more attack speed than drums even with a charge. The advantage going drums + boots over boots + boots is stats and aoe aura. Boots + boots win in attack speed, movespeed, flat damage, and + either phase ability or tread switching. Err no, you have to be more specific to what you're comparing it to. Boots + boots does not win in attack speed, move speed, and flat damage. It depends which combination you get. Boots + boots vs. treads Drums? It doesn't win in attack speed and you still have tread switching utility. Boots + boots vs. phase drums you don't have the attack speed and tread switching but you have everything else. This is on top of the stats and group utility you gain from drums ofc. Show nested quote +
Thing is I don't see Nightstalker as a hero in a teamfight that's supposed to deal a ton of damage. Silence, slow, pick off supports without dying by abusing mobility at night. Armlet is good for damage but it delays an aghs or bkb too much in my opinion. I'd consider it more if you're going carry Nightstalker with midas first though.
I could argue the same thing that buying an extra pair of boots delays your bkb. Also, armlet is a relatively early game item where you're not always expected to start team fighting. You'll still have a lot of skirmishes. Delaying bkb for when you actually get into serious team fights isn't that bad, sometimes for the best. Armlet gives you a lot of burst when you gank and can net you much easier kills under the duration of void + silence. It's not even a contest what would be the best ganking combination of items between treads+phase or just one pair of boots + armlet.
Boots + boots: 30 as, 8 str, 24(+8) damage, 16%ms phase, tread switch
phase + drums: 14(24) as, 9 stats, 24+12 damage, 16+5(15)% ms, phase, drum charges
treads + drums: 44(54) as, 9 stats, +8str, 12(+8) damage, tread switch, 5(15)% ms, drum charges, tread switch
You got me on the attack speed bit, glossed over that. Once you break it down, choosing between phase+drums and treads+drums is choosing more damage+movespeed+phase ability vs. more stats/health+attack speed+tread switch. Nightstalker has max movespeed at night + max aura + phase iirc so the movespeed from drums is pretty much wasted if you go both phase and drums. So compared with treads + drums, boots + boots is more damage, less stats/health, more ms + phase ability, less attack speed.
Looking at it again, I'm not sure if 32 damage 30 is better dps-wise vs. 20 damage 44 as. Regardless, I think I would still prefer going double boots over boots + drums because phase ability is super good, especially during daytime, and the +10 as/ms is limited and can be obtained from an ally. You lose stats but meh.
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Meh, the only reason to get phase on ns is to dive in the trees radiant side and not get blocked by creeps.
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you're forgetting the part where drums benefits your team. anyways, drum on nightstalker isn't even that common; usually he runs out of slots before he can pick it up, since he generally has more important items to buy (bottle, wand, boots, urn, tp, armlet/vanguard/bkb/aghs is 6 slots)
also the nerf to force barely affects supports, it's only 150g more expensive
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On May 02 2013 18:58 Erasme wrote:
Meh, the only reason to get phase on ns is to dive in the trees radiant side and not get blocked by creeps.
The best reason to go phase on any ganking hero. He also already has a lot of as from his passive so the + damage should be more efficient. I also just realized that if you're attacking a running target, once yo have a high enough attack speed, your dps is limited by how quickly you get within melee range of your victim between your first and next attacks.
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On May 02 2013 19:05 Dead9 wrote:
you're forgetting the part where drums benefits your team. anyways, drum on nightstalker isn't even that common; usually he runs out of slots before he can pick it up, since he generally has more important items to buy (bottle, wand, boots, urn, tp, armlet/vanguard/bkb/aghs is 6 slots)
also the nerf to force barely affects supports, it's only 150g more expensive
150g is two and a half minute for a support, though.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Not if you get a Midas first.
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On May 02 2013 19:14 Testuser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:05 Dead9 wrote:
you're forgetting the part where drums benefits your team. anyways, drum on nightstalker isn't even that common; usually he runs out of slots before he can pick it up, since he generally has more important items to buy (bottle, wand, boots, urn, tp, armlet/vanguard/bkb/aghs is 6 slots)
also the nerf to force barely affects supports, it's only 150g more expensive 150g is two and a half minute for a support, though.
A support who isn't pulling, ganking, counter-ganking or taking up a free lane, yeah.
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On May 02 2013 18:40 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 18:05 akatama wrote:On May 02 2013 18:00 Nevuk wrote:On May 02 2013 14:13 FinestHour wrote:
everytime mistmare goes jungle huskar he just wins
it just blows my mind How does jungle huskar even work? Start naked => rush Morbid Mask => everything else Skill-wise I believe you start with and max Berserker's Blood, heal secondary, skip Spears completely. At least that is how someone was doing it during AtoD (I think it was singx2, but not 100% sure). I've tried this even with random gold and somehow edit - failed really hard at jungling
just max berserker blood and stats, no heal no nothing, only ult
being able to pull at least once really helps since all he needs to jungle is levels, also you have to kite a bit or you will die
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On May 02 2013 18:22 Grettin wrote:Super league groups & start date(sorry if mentioned before). Group A: iG, LGD.cn, Vici Gaming, TongFu, For.Love Group B: DK, LGD.int, Orange, RattleSnake, RisingStars The matches will begin on May 10 at 19:00 China time, with VG vs LGD.cn Schedule: + Show Spoiler +May 16: 20:00–23:00：A- TongFu vs Invictus GAMING
May 17: 20:00–23:00：A- ForLove vs LGD GAMING CN
May 18: 14:00–18:00：A- VICI GAMING vs ForLove
May 18: 20:00–23:00：A-LGD GAMING CN vs TongFu
May 23: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs LGD GAMING CN
May 24: 20:00–23:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs LGD GAMING INT
May 25: 14:00–18:00：B- LGD GAMING INT vs TEAM DK
May 25: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs ForLove
May 30: 20:00–23:00：A- TongFu vs ForLove
May 31: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs VICI GAMING
June 1: 14:00–18:00：A- VICI GAMING vs TongFu
June 1: 20:00–23:00：B- Rattle Snake vs Rstars Gaming
June 6: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs Rstars Gaming
June 7: 20:00–23:00：B- LGD GAMING INT vs Rattle Snake
June 8: 14:00–18:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs Rstars Gaming
June 8: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs Rattle Snake
June 13: 20:00–23:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs Rattle Snake
June 14: 20:00–23:00：B- Rstars Gaming vs LGD GAMING INT
June 15: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs NeoEs.Orange Someone make a thread if needed. http://dota2.sgamer.com/news/201305/150213.html
Can they not come sooner?? I am currently suffering some serious withdrawal syndrome of not getting any daily dosage of chinese doto!!!!
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United States47024 Posts
Drums are fine on NS. Honestly item choices on NS in general tend to be pretty varied and up to playstyle/situational state of the game that it's pretty pointless to discuss in a vacuum.
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^Isn't that true for almost every hero?
You can't say a certain build is always the right choice and 100% the best. Might be some specific heroes which this isn't true but I can't remember any(wisp maybe?).
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If heroes are not limited to 6 slots, any items are viable lololol
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Without limit on slots, only gg branches are viable 
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On May 02 2013 20:10 ArcticRaven wrote:Without limit on slots, only gg branches are viable
Eventually, crits would become cost efficient too
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On May 02 2013 19:51 Andr3 wrote:
^Isn't that true for almost every hero?
You can't say a certain build is always the right choice and 100% the best. Might be some specific heroes which this isn't true but I can't remember any(wisp maybe?).
100% no, but there's a difference between midgame oriented heroes that go for whatever they need in the game, and carries/supports who go for more similar items between games.
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Jungle Huskar was a lot better before they nerfed the dire easy camp pull. You used to be able to chain into medium or hard camp to get easy levels but now it's a lot riskier. Radiant you need your support to deward or you're pretty much stuck doing the easy camp or hope the medium camp spawns satyrs or golems.
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On May 02 2013 18:22 Grettin wrote:Super league groups & start date(sorry if mentioned before). Group A: iG, LGD.cn, Vici Gaming, TongFu, For.Love Group B: DK, LGD.int, Orange, RattleSnake, RisingStars The matches will begin on May 10 at 19:00 China time, with VG vs LGD.cn Schedule: + Show Spoiler +May 16: 20:00–23:00：A- TongFu vs Invictus GAMING
May 17: 20:00–23:00：A- ForLove vs LGD GAMING CN
May 18: 14:00–18:00：A- VICI GAMING vs ForLove
May 18: 20:00–23:00：A-LGD GAMING CN vs TongFu
May 23: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs LGD GAMING CN
May 24: 20:00–23:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs LGD GAMING INT
May 25: 14:00–18:00：B- LGD GAMING INT vs TEAM DK
May 25: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs ForLove
May 30: 20:00–23:00：A- TongFu vs ForLove
May 31: 20:00–23:00：A- Invictus GAMING vs VICI GAMING
June 1: 14:00–18:00：A- VICI GAMING vs TongFu
June 1: 20:00–23:00：B- Rattle Snake vs Rstars Gaming
June 6: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs Rstars Gaming
June 7: 20:00–23:00：B- LGD GAMING INT vs Rattle Snake
June 8: 14:00–18:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs Rstars Gaming
June 8: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs Rattle Snake
June 13: 20:00–23:00：B- NeoEs.Orange vs Rattle Snake
June 14: 20:00–23:00：B- Rstars Gaming vs LGD GAMING INT
June 15: 20:00–23:00：B- TEAM DK vs NeoEs.Orange Someone make a thread if needed. http://dota2.sgamer.com/news/201305/150213.html
They've also decided to ban armlet on Lone Druid.
https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=BTSGoDz&tw_i=329841497472118784&tw_p=tweetembed
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And Admiral Bulldog cries in the corner.
lol.
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I watched DeMusliM the other day and he had it but I never realized the DotA2 guys used it as well. Just wow EG...
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EPT
