EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2673
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
I like that they are moving towards an actual ladder but only being able to play by yourself sucks. I guess that's what TMM is for but it's quite a world of difference between playing by yourself and having 5 ready for team games. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On April 27 2013 06:27 TheYango wrote: It's not that easy because once you have a "ranked" mode, "normal" games are seen as second-class. Having a ranked mode in the game fundamentally affects how the community views normal games. Then that's due to more people believing ranked is a better game mode and that's valve just implementing something a lot of people want. But considering I know you've played League where lots of people play normal games without a care in the world I don't see why it can't be the same. I know a lot of the good players don't play normal mode, but it shouldn't take anything away from casuals who just want to play for fun. Most of my friends just played unranked games, and I'm sure a majority of people play unranked over ranked in League. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On April 27 2013 06:50 TheYango wrote: It's not just an issue of perception. The existence of a ranked queue has a real impact on the quality, type, and number of games people will get in a non-ranked queue solely because of how the community as a whole perceives the queue as being second-class. The point being you can't just say "don't play ranked if you don't like it", because even if they choose to not play ranked and don't care how they are perceived, the division STILL has an impact on the quality of the normal games they're in. The only people who play ranked religiously are going to be the people who are huge nerds and pick PL/Magnus/Nyx/insert other lame hero. Those are the same people who are going to talk shit to you regardless, so removing them from the 'unranked' que is a good thing, not a bad thing. I still don't see why you think this is going to affect the quality of 'unranked' games. 'Unranked' just means people aren't taking the game as seriously. What's the big deal? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
At that point, splitting ranked and normal has failed to serve its purpose of splitting casual and serious games, because nobody at that skill level is using normal to find casual games. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:01 TheYango wrote: Past a certain level, players in League are playing ranked regardless of how serious they want to be. They're playing ranked games the way normal games are expected to be play (random picks, etc.), but they're doing it out of habit/because it's easier to get ranked games than to queue normal. At that point, splitting ranked and normal has failed to serve its purpose of splitting casual and serious games, because nobody at that skill level is using normal to find casual games. Then all Valve has to do is create an incentive to play normal. For example, ranked play doesn't yield items or points, but normal play does. That would be one way to do it. Stop acting like adding ranked is the end of the world; the reason why Valve is adding it because a vast majority of the community wants it, or two, they think that it's a good idea. Either way, saying that it's a 'bad' idea is silly. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:14 superstartran wrote: Then all Valve has to do is create an incentive to play normal. For example, ranked play doesn't yield items or points, but normal play does. That would be one way to do it. or they could just not divide it. | ||
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Gluttony
Sweden160 Posts
The way its now, you know if you are really good. you don't know if you are high normal or lowest of the low normal. I get that all players in normal sucks, and we know we are not the best. but when there are numbers, everything changes. People will think they are good, because they are high normal (range of mmr) and we are possibly low normal, while still playing equally good / bad, this will make us feel bad, and them feel entitled to feel like they are good. They could be somewhat better, or just grind a higher number because of more time to actually play. It is for us this is a problem. The ones who already are really good at this game (compared to almost everyone else not progamers) could find the numbers really fun, and motivating. But I think numbers/ranking being motivating (I know they were for me in games when I could play alot) don't outweighs the negative effect the same ranking will have in making people unmotivated. DotA is already a very unforgiving game, with a harsh communtiy and a loss can really get you down because you know you made so many mistakes and feel like shit afterwards. This is all an example on why this is a bad idea. Excuse my tired at friday night-english. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
You mean so that when I'm playing for fun with friends I also draw people who tryhard to the max and pick Magnus/PL/Nyx/etc.? No thanks. If the rumors are true (which it looks like based on the evidence), Valve is adding this due to one of two reasons : 1) A vast majority of the community wants it or 2) Valve thinks it's a good idea. Either way, there's no stopping it if either of those two are true. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I mean, maybe it will trim out that one dude who's genuinely good but feels like playing dagon riki. That's like 1 game in 10. The kotl who never buys wards and illuminates down his carry's farm to rush bloodstone, the vlads first every-melee-carry-ever, and the last-pick-riki-when-we-have-3-melee-carries.... those guys are just gonna keep on doing their thing, because they genuinely believe that's the best way to play. And they're still going to be in your games, because there's no reason at all that a ranked mode will suddenly make the MMR algorithm better. All that does is make it visible. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:18 Belisarius wrote: I really don't see what ranked games are going to achieve. Dota already has an underlying MMR, and 99% of people still play to win. It's not suddenly going to be trilanes everywhere as if people were just joking around all that time before. I mean, maybe it will trim out that one dude who's genuinely good but feels like playing dagon riki. That's like 1 game in 10. The kotl who never buys wards and illuminates down his carry's farm to rush bloodstone, the vlads first every-melee-carry-ever, and the last-pick-riki-when-we-have-3-melee-carries.... those guys are just gonna keep on doing their thing, because they genuinely believe that's the best way to play. And they're still going to be in your games, because there's no reason at all that a ranked mode will suddenly make the MMR algorithm better. All that does is make it visible. I suspect that they've fixed their MMR algorithim to be abit better since they actually are willing to implement in a solo que based on evidence that we've seen so far. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:17 superstartran wrote: You mean so that when I'm playing for fun with friends I also draw people who tryhard to the max and pick Magnus/PL/Nyx/etc.? No thanks. Because tryharding will be banned in normals or something? There are going to be those people regardless ranked or not. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:14 superstartran wrote: Then all Valve has to do is create an incentive to play normal. For example, ranked play doesn't yield items or points, but normal play does. That would be one way to do it. Stop acting like adding ranked is the end of the world; the reason why Valve is adding it because a vast majority of the community wants it, or two, they think that it's a good idea. Either way, saying that it's a 'bad' idea is silly. I haven't even said it's a bad idea. I simply responded to a comment saying "if you don't like it then don't play it" when I don't think that's an appropriate response because even if you don't play ranked, adding a ranked mode affects what games in normal queue are like. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Because tryharding will be banned in normals or something? There are going to be those people regardless ranked or not. Dude, are you seriously thinking before you post? The people who pick super incredibly tryhard heroes are the exact same people who want the solo que mode so that they can get e-recognition for their superior rank. Why the fuck would those same people be in normal mode, when a separate que exists where they can get visual representation of their 'bragging rights.' I can count a handful of times I was playing against incredibly dumb tryhards in Normal Mode in League of Legends. People who want to tryhard will play the tryhard mode. On April 27 2013 08:25 TheYango wrote: I haven't even said it's a bad idea. I simply responded to a comment saying "if you don't like it then don't play it" when I don't think that's an appropriate response because even if you don't play ranked, adding a ranked mode affects what games in normal queue are like. What you said is only true if there is no incentive to play normal mode, which there is none in League of Legends. If there was an incentive to play normal (which isn't determined by winning or losing), then the casuals will continue to play it, especially if the incentives are casual based (such as items and such). And no matter how you put it, the tone you put in your posts pretty much says you think it is a bad idea to have a ranked mode (espec based on your past history on this very issue). | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
People will be even less inclined to give a shit about normal queue when there is a ranked queue. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On April 27 2013 08:46 PassiveAce wrote: People will be even less inclined to give a shit about normal queue when there is a ranked queue. Only if there is no incentive to play normal que. That was the issue in League. If there's some sort of casual incentive to play normal, then the tryhards play ranked, the casuals play normal. You guys act like there can't be a solution. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
I agree with you superstartran, but I don't know what could possibly be an appropriate incentive. | ||
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Fatalize
France5210 Posts
Is there any reason why we often jokingly call DotA doto? | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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