EPTThe constant crashes is pretty much the only thing hurting my enjoyment of playing the game.
General Discussion - Page 2525
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2 Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads. | ||
|
Talron
Germany7651 Posts
The constant crashes is pretty much the only thing hurting my enjoyment of playing the game. | ||
|
unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:38 Talron wrote: Well, it's not hurting my enjoyment of the game either, but the slow development progress is kinda holding back the "breakout" of Dota2 imo. I know it's a bit exaggerating, but at this rate I feel like we might even see Blizzard Allstars before Dota2 is fully released. The constant crashes is pretty much the only thing hurting my enjoyment of playing the game. They are patching pretty much once a week. Name any other game that does this, any game. They should officially release the damn thing however, that i can concur with. | ||
|
Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:47 unkkz wrote: They are patching pretty much once a week. Name any other game that does this, any game. They should officially release the damn thing however, that i can concur with. Without a full tutorial I doubt that we'll see full release. Really the first part of that being done shows me a lot of promise, and if you have taken a look at cyborgmatt's blog you'll see they are well underway into the second part of that. I just am curious how many parts they plan on doing. Just from feeling alone, I think we're still looking at about 3-4 months of work before full release. Not sure if we'll have full parody by then, but should be very close at least. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
| ||
|
Incze
Romania2058 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:47 unkkz wrote: They are patching pretty much once a week. Name any other game that does this, any game. They should officially release the damn thing however, that i can concur with. Path of exile, for one. About the update rate, I don't really care. I just wish they would release the game already, even in its unfinished state so that it can start expanding. | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
| ||
|
duoform
Spain5180 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:57 Firebolt145 wrote: In my mind, it's really just the tutorial that is holding the game back. Their decision to release to the masses is going to be influenced by how well the said masses will take up the game. New players are not going to make the decision whether to play the game or not based on whether there are still 3 heroes that have not been patched over from DotA 1 to Dota 2. Their decision is purely going to be based on whether the newbie/starting experience eases them into the game or not. Casual players hate losing. That's why CoD is so massive or even TF2. You don't need to be good at CoD to kill a bunch of people running around. The game even helps you do it. Casual players don't wanna waste 1h reading a proper guide to play a game and have have to lose multiple games to actually be at least "good" at it. Tutorials will help noobs or newcomers eventually but it's just a very small introduction to what DotA really is. Once they see how ridiculous hard the game is they will run away because "fuck it, I don't have time to learn this bullshit". If you wanna win the casual players release a proper map editor and the put a big button in the client saying "Custom Maps" and a briefly explanation explaining X map. Pudge Wars is the best example of it. You spend X time hooking each other until Y teams reaches Z points. Everyone is having fun and at the same time they can learn how to hook as Pudge or even how to cancel hook etc etc. I sometimes wonder how Valve really works... fucking mystery. | ||
|
BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
| ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On April 04 2013 08:14 duoform wrote: Casual players hate losing. That's why CoD is so massive or even TF2. You don't need to be good at CoD to kill a bunch of people running around. The game even helps you do it. Casual players don't wanna waste 1h reading a proper guide to play a game and have have to lose multiple games to actually be at least "good" at it. Tutorials will help noobs or newcomers eventually but it's just a very small introduction to what DotA really is. Once they see how ridiculous hard the game is they will run away because "fuck it, I don't have time to learn this bullshit". Which is why Valve have really got to make the entire starting experience (especially the tutorial) hook people to the game. They need to develop something that doesn't just teach people the basics of last hitting, but actually shows them why learning the game is a cliff worth climbing. If you wanna win the casual players release a proper map editor and the put a big button in the client saying "Custom Maps" and a briefly explanation explaining X map. Pudge Wars is the best example of it. You spend X time hooking each other until Y teams reaches Z points. Everyone is having fun and at the same time they can learn how to hook as Pudge or even how to cancel hook etc etc. I sometimes wonder how Valve really works... fucking mystery. Except...Pudge wars has close to zero similarity to Dota. | ||
|
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
| ||
|
crms
United States11933 Posts
On April 04 2013 08:30 Numy wrote: Think the bigger problem than fun tutorials is noob games without tons of leavers. this seems to have gotten really bad lately. I made a couple new smurfs recently and the amount of leavers and purposeful throwing (like running to enemy well) was like something I haven't seen in dota2. It's even happened on my main quite a few times lately and it has relatively high pub mmr. | ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
Valve did an amazing job with portal, blending gameplay and "tutorial" seamlessly, if they do something similar then dota will experience enormous growth. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Custom maps would make Dota larger then live though, if one could create the next Warcraft III so to speak then it could be amazing. Because I know I would love to play Pyramid escape or Uther Wars on The Dota 2 client if I wanted to. What is holding the game back is that its simply not released yet. On the point of TI3 invites, for the West I can see 3 CIS teams(they are a large portion of the community and should be represented as such), just like last year, Virtus Pro, Na'vi and Empire(the last one I guess could be debateable but with Vigoss and the CIS community size aswell as the brand they did build up over the past year they definitely deserve an invite). Last year it was Darer, M5 and Na'vi, this year the CIS seem quite well represented and will put up a better fight then last year i'd imagine. EG, because its EG Liquid I would argue would get one aswell, first because its quite a decent brand, they represent Murrica and because they have 3 CoL members in their roster, the only other Western team who made a splash other then Na´vi. That makes 5 and leaves 2 invites and one qualifier spot. I would argue NTH would get atleast 1 spot, they are a strong all Swedish team who represent Europe well, they also have the starpower to go with it in Loda. Then the final invite spot is between Fnatic, Mouz and Dignitas and I would say Fnatic has the definite edge in this. Not only do they perform well(beating many teams, getting 2nd at Defense 3) but they also represent Europe and symbolize everything of HoN, they have a large fan following. Mouz with Kuroky would have a decent shot at getting an invite if they kept performing well but that didn't happen. Mouz right now is decent but not strong enough nor does it have the starpower. Murrica is already represented by Team Liquid and EG. Then the final qualfier spot can be fought over by a variety of teams and either Mouz or Dignitas will make it. | ||
|
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 04 2013 08:32 crms wrote: this seems to have gotten really bad lately. I made a couple new smurfs recently and the amount of leavers and purposeful throwing (like running to enemy well) was like something I haven't seen in dota2. It's even happened on my main quite a few times lately and it has relatively high pub mmr. I had the same experience,w as smurfing with two friends who I just gave dota too and were lanning. One has never played dota before so we were in ultra noob games. Every game we played had at least 2 people raging, 1 guy quiting and someone feeding. Never had such a bad experience in pub dota. I was contemplating playing on my main just so we got better games but it would be way too high level for my friends. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 04 2013 08:14 duoform wrote: Casual players hate losing. That's why CoD is so massive or even TF2. You don't need to be good at CoD to kill a bunch of people running around. The game even helps you do it. Casual players don't wanna waste 1h reading a proper guide to play a game and have have to lose multiple games to actually be at least "good" at it. Tutorials will help noobs or newcomers eventually but it's just a very small introduction to what DotA really is. Once they see how ridiculous hard the game is they will run away because "fuck it, I don't have time to learn this bullshit". It's really got very little to do with that. A steep learning curve isn't a problem so long as the game is stil enjoyable when you're halfway up the slope, and dota is actually fine in that regard. I don't have to know every single hero's abilities and role to have fun playing the game, provided I know my own and I'm against people who are as bad as I am, and who are relatively friendly. Dota's greatest weakness is its team dynamics, or lack thereof. If you suck, there's nothing that drives you away faster than being flamed for four games straight because you do, in fact, suck. That's the simple truth, and it's by far the most intimidating aspect of dota to a new player. The knowledge aspect can be corrected with a really, really good tutorial system that goes through all the real basics. Not just basics in terms of "kill creeps, get money, destroy towers, win", but basics in terms of last-hitting, pulling, warding, denying, carry/support/offlane/jungle etc. All the emergent things that are hard to discover for yourself. I really wish they'd update their default builds, as well. I think they sorely underestimate how important those are to a new player. The team-rage aspect is a lot harder to deal with, but I think it will just have to come down to a really excellent MM system, and a report/commendation system that actually functions rather than just being good for griefing the poor dude who gets matched with your 4-stack. I wonder if they would ever consider making use of the commendations; if you have a high friendly/teaching:games-played ratio, I wonder if you could be made more likely to be put with new guys... | ||
|
Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
IMO the tutorial should be about individual mechanics while the more team oriented things should be taught in other ways (like playing vs bots or playing with a mentor). I think also that playing with a mentor will eliminate a lot of the 'raged at and flamed' mentality that goes on, as you're going to always (hopefully) have that calming voice you need to be there to reassure you when you need it. | ||
|
BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
On April 04 2013 08:39 Numy wrote: I had the same experience,w as smurfing with two friends who I just gave dota too and were lanning. One has never played dota before so we were in ultra noob games. Every game we played had at least 2 people raging, 1 guy quiting and someone feeding. Never had such a bad experience in pub dota. I was contemplating playing on my main just so we got better games but it would be way too high level for my friends. Smurfing is probably the cause of the bad newbie games. Learning a new game with a bunch of new people is fun. Everyone's bad, funny stuff happens and we all learn from it. Learning a new game while some guy with 10x more experience and 5 dota keys decides to smurf in ultra noob games is not fun. In that circumstance, don't be surprised if people think it's an unfair playing field and rage quit. I would. At least in a game like COD, everyone is put on equal footing. Die to a much superior player in COD, and you can come back and have the same chance against him next time. In Dota, die to a much superior player and it'll be even easier for him to kill you next time, because of items (let's not even talk about the double punishment of death - he/she gets money, you lose it). I get that you want to play with friends, but in my experience it just doesn't work. One player can have way too much influence over a game. If Valve wants to bring in the newbies, it'll have to find a way to keep their games as smurf free as possible. | ||
|
BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On April 04 2013 09:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote: Smurfing is probably the cause of the bad newbie games. Learning a new game with a bunch of new people is fun. Everyone's bad, funny stuff happens and we all learn from it. Learning a new game while some guy with 10x more experience and 5 dota keys decides to smurf in ultra noob games is not fun. In that circumstance, don't be surprised if people think it's an unfair playing field and rage quit. I would. At least in a game like COD, everyone is put on equal footing. Die to a much superior player in COD, and you can come back and have the same chance against him next time. In Dota, die to a much superior player and it'll be even easier for him to kill you next time, because of items (let's not even talk about the double punishment of death - he/she gets money, you lose it). I get that you want to play with friends, but in my experience it just doesn't work. One player can have way too much influence over a game. If Valve wants to bring in the newbies, it'll have to find a way to keep their games as smurf free as possible. And if they had to keep the game 'smurf free' they have to come out with a working MM that allows us to play with newbies friends without headache. Many of us (or most of us) are forced to play on smurf with casual friends because MM doesnt work in the first place. | ||
|
duoform
Spain5180 Posts
Knowing Valve I would say 2015 is a pretty accurate date of achieving all these things guys. Be positive. + Show Spoiler + We will be playing Cyberpunk 2077 or Titan before Valve actually does all that things for DotA2. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On one hand, Dota 2 is in open beta, so full release is only when dota 2 is considered finished in some way. But blizzard haven't even shown more than 20 consecutive seconds of gameplay yet and have not shown their map yet. Yet they announced to make several maps, because they can. I would probably get a bigger return by putting 10 bucks in a bank with standard interest than betting 10 bucks on who finishes the game first. | ||
| ||
