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On February 15 2013 02:52 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Watching Synderen and SingSing's streams recently I'm struck by how much it adds when you can hear team chat in games. What are the chances of getting teams to use the in-game client to talk so that spectators can choose a team's chat for audio? Or maybe something that allows for them to still use Skype or whatever and yet have their voices still be broadcast in-game? Why would any streamer even consider using such a feature? This will only drive even more people into dotatv, resulting in less ad revenue for the streamer
I'm talking about tournaments.
On February 15 2013 02:57 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Watching Synderen and SingSing's streams recently I'm struck by how much it adds when you can hear team chat in games. What are the chances of getting teams to use the in-game client to talk so that spectators can choose a team's chat for audio? Or maybe something that allows for them to still use Skype or whatever and yet have their voices still be broadcast in-game? I don't think it will happen since external voip will prob almost always be better. Also I don't know how much sponsors want people hearing team chat in a proper game. I doubt it's anything below R18 and could contain a lot of out of context quotes that could be damaging. Practice games are a lot less intense
The game itself has lots of "mature" language so I'm not sure what you're expecting that could be worse.
As for external programmes working better - yeah, that's why I mentioned some way to have in-game work alongside Skype or whatever.
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On February 15 2013 03:07 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:52 Yoshi- wrote:On February 15 2013 02:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Watching Synderen and SingSing's streams recently I'm struck by how much it adds when you can hear team chat in games. What are the chances of getting teams to use the in-game client to talk so that spectators can choose a team's chat for audio? Or maybe something that allows for them to still use Skype or whatever and yet have their voices still be broadcast in-game? Why would any streamer even consider using such a feature? This will only drive even more people into dotatv, resulting in less ad revenue for the streamer I'm talking about tournaments. Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:57 Numy wrote:On February 15 2013 02:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Watching Synderen and SingSing's streams recently I'm struck by how much it adds when you can hear team chat in games. What are the chances of getting teams to use the in-game client to talk so that spectators can choose a team's chat for audio? Or maybe something that allows for them to still use Skype or whatever and yet have their voices still be broadcast in-game? I don't think it will happen since external voip will prob almost always be better. Also I don't know how much sponsors want people hearing team chat in a proper game. I doubt it's anything below R18 and could contain a lot of out of context quotes that could be damaging. Practice games are a lot less intense The game itself has lots of "mature" language so I'm not sure what you're expecting that could be worse. As for external programmes working better - yeah, that's why I mentioned some way to have in-game work alongside Skype or whatever.
The problem is during tourneys that if this info was publicly available, it could be exploitable by the enemy team / whoevers watching. Someone could steam message them or some other form of communication about something particular about the game. I suppose this is already possible, but this could make it worse I suppose. Also, teams wouldn't be really keen on giving up this kind communication / strategy to the public.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On February 15 2013 03:05 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:50 MrHoon wrote:On February 14 2013 15:14 SirMilford wrote:On February 14 2013 14:34 betamale wrote:
naga was the worst to play against and watch i cannot be any happier that she got nerfed to oblivion I love playing against/with naga. I feel like whenver she ulti's it resets the teamfight and if you are fast enough/can outthink the enemy you will win from there. It is just so tense and everyone is screaming in our voice chat of what to do. honestly the Naga games were great and entertaining. I have yet to see a Naga game that was ever boring Vaccum in sleep was dumb, but thats the Dark Seer's fault Everybody keeps forgetting what made Naga truly terrible to watch was not the Naga, but the fucking mid morphling that never fucking died and 1 shotted everything at 14 minutes I still think there is nothing that matches the lameness of Morph shotgun during international until now. Even cancer lancer and the first week of Centaur Fuck it, I liked watching morphling. Yes, he deserved a small nerf, but I thought the games that involved him were usually pretty exciting. http://dotabuff.com/players/26938848I'm not biased.
I think he is one of the most unique carries and I also disliked how he is in his current state
The nerf was too hard, especially 30 mana per morph is what I think killed this hero. 20 was too low, but 30 is just saying "Hey you need linkens for the mana regen or your hero is useless"
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On February 15 2013 03:18 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 03:05 Comeh wrote:On February 15 2013 02:50 MrHoon wrote:On February 14 2013 15:14 SirMilford wrote:On February 14 2013 14:34 betamale wrote:
naga was the worst to play against and watch i cannot be any happier that she got nerfed to oblivion I love playing against/with naga. I feel like whenver she ulti's it resets the teamfight and if you are fast enough/can outthink the enemy you will win from there. It is just so tense and everyone is screaming in our voice chat of what to do. honestly the Naga games were great and entertaining. I have yet to see a Naga game that was ever boring Vaccum in sleep was dumb, but thats the Dark Seer's fault Everybody keeps forgetting what made Naga truly terrible to watch was not the Naga, but the fucking mid morphling that never fucking died and 1 shotted everything at 14 minutes I still think there is nothing that matches the lameness of Morph shotgun during international until now. Even cancer lancer and the first week of Centaur Fuck it, I liked watching morphling. Yes, he deserved a small nerf, but I thought the games that involved him were usually pretty exciting. http://dotabuff.com/players/26938848I'm not biased. I think he is one of the most unique carries and I also disliked how he is in his current state The nerf was too hard, especially 30 mana per morph is what I think killed this hero. 20 was too low, but 30 is just saying "Hey you need linkens for the mana regen or your hero is useless"
As someone who has played around with the hero a bit in his current state, I feel like the mana regen hurt, but it wasn't the worst part. His smaller AOE on waveform, and more importantly, the loss of attack on waveform and decreased base damage REALLY hurts (especially when combined together). Also, the increased mana cost on EB feels pretty terrible.
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They buffed his waveform aoe and animation back a little. For a carry hero with ~3 escape mechanisms, I feel like his nerfs were pretty justified.
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On February 15 2013 03:27 Kishin2 wrote:
They buffed his waveform aoe and animation back a little. For a carry hero with ~3 escape mechanisms, I feel like his nerfs were pretty justified.
They never changed the AOE.
While nerfs might have been justified, is it justifiable to make the hero one of the worst carries in the pool?
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Watching Stephano playing WC3 makes me realize how much fun many of us had years ago. Fucking nostalgia man..
I even wonder if we ever gonna see WC4!
On-topic: I'm really sad the current state of Morphling aswell like Hoon said. He was strong. Yes. But in the right hands. Plenty of western teams picked him during The International and failed miserably. Same would happen if The International had place 3 months ago and everyone picked Naix. Which I feel like he really needs a small nerf on Rage.
6 second duration is pretty dumb and can easily kill supports like shotgun Morph did unless of course you have the right abilities to stop Naix from killing them. Or items like Orchid.
How can you make Morphling viable again without buffing him too much? I mean:
* 6.74
Morph passively grants 3/4/5/6 agility and strength.
Wave Form now properly dodges projectiles.
* 6.73
Base agility increased by 5.
Adaptive strike cooldown decreased from 20 to 10.
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On February 15 2013 03:39 duoform wrote:
Watching Stephano playing WC3 makes me realize how much fun many of us had years ago. Fucking nostalgia man..
I even wonder if we ever gonna see WC4!
On-topic: I'm really sad the current state of Morphling aswell like Hoon said. He was strong. Yes. But in the right hands. Plenty of western teams picked him during The International and failed miserably. Same would happen if The International had place 3 months ago and everyone picked Naix. Which I feel like he really needs a small nerf on Rage.
6 second duration is pretty dumb and can easily kill supports like shotgun Morph did unless of course you have the right abilities to stop Naix from killing them. Or items like Orchid.
How can you make Morphling viable again without buffing him too much? I mean:
* 6.74
Morph passively grants 3/4/5/6 agility and strength.
Wave Form now properly dodges projectiles.
* 6.73
Base agility increased by 5.
Adaptive strike cooldown decreased from 20 to 10.
Honestly, I think Naix is a FOTM right now - I think teams are adjusting to how he plays now and we will see less play out of him (SD, Bane, Beastmaster, ghost scepters, force staffs). I'm not sure I would be against a 1 second nerf to his magic immunity, but whatever, and MAYBE a 5 movement speed reduction could be in order.
As far as nerfs to morph, I think touching or reversing one or two of the nerfs could make him pickable again. It likely wouldn't make it OP, but playable in competitive play maybe (as well as nerfs to PL, though my hatred is more because I hate his design).
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I think morphling got nerfed because he was fotm too.
Remember the international 1, where am got nerfed because he was fotm.
Dota 2 seems to be making icefrog adjust heroes more quickly than he did in dota 1.
If you hate a hero it's probably because it's effective, not necessarily because it's op.
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The problem is when IF buffs a hero and than nerfs him more than he buffed him before. Like morph was buffed quite a bit in 6.74-3 and then completely different aspects of him were nerfed
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On February 15 2013 03:58 Qbek wrote:
The problem is when IF buffs a hero and than nerfs him more than he buffed him before. Like morph was buffed quite a bit in 6.74-3 and then completely different aspects of him were nerfed
I don't think that is a big issue. It does happen occasionally, but it's far more often that he overbuffs already strong but mostly ignored heroes until they are completely broken. Then again it's also the people's fault for not realising these heroes were strong to begin with.
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I think morph was honestly fine. All he really needed was that he couldn't morph stats while stunned.
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On February 15 2013 04:26 Numy wrote:
I think morph was honestly fine. All he really needed was that he couldn't morph stats while stunned.
If they were going to do that i'd much rather he can't morph while silenced, but can while stunned.
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On February 15 2013 03:32 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 03:27 Kishin2 wrote:
They buffed his waveform aoe and animation back a little. For a carry hero with ~3 escape mechanisms, I feel like his nerfs were pretty justified. They never changed the AOE. While nerfs might have been justified, is it justifiable to make the hero one of the worst carries in the pool?
For some reason, I thought that one of the patches fixed his waveform having less aoe than intended.
Personally, I don't see a problem in having a carry hero with 3 escape mechanisms be a bit weaker damage wise. Most carry heroes don't have any way to escape being ganked. Trading some offense for defense makes sense to me.
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On February 15 2013 04:32 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 04:26 Numy wrote:
I think morph was honestly fine. All he really needed was that he couldn't morph stats while stunned. If they were going to do that i'd much rather he can't morph while silenced, but can while stunned.
That's how it was before / now, but if he started morphing before he was silenced, he couldn't stop until after he was not silenced anymore (since morphing is a buff started by a spell, not a channeling abillity). I think if you changed it to silence + stun, he was probably fine. Maybe you give a CD to when he can jump to his replicate as well if he is hit (kind of like spirit bear).
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On February 15 2013 04:33 Kishin2 wrote:
Most carry heroes don't have any way to escape being ganked
Ummmmmm
I'm not so sure on this one. Maybe most *ranged* carries lack good escape mechanisms, I'm OK with that one.
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I hope Blizzard's been working on Warcraft 4 for years now, but that's just the stupid optimist who still thinks of Blizzard as the guys who made SC, War2, War3, Diablo, and Diablo3. I'd love for a new strategy game in the Warcraft universe with heroes leveling up and stuff...
But honestly, Dota's probably the only game that's gonna be even close to filling that gap for a long time.
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On February 15 2013 04:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 04:33 Kishin2 wrote:
Most carry heroes don't have any way to escape being ganked Ummmmmm I'm not so sure on this one. Maybe most *ranged* carries lack good escape mechanisms, I'm OK with that one.
That would be more accurate.
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On February 15 2013 04:36 eAZy1 wrote:
I hope Blizzard's been working on Warcraft 4 for years now, but that's just the stupid optimist who still thinks of Blizzard as the guys who made SC, War2, War3, Diablo, and Diablo3. I'd love for a new strategy game in the Warcraft universe with heroes leveling up and stuff...
But honestly, Dota's probably the only game that's gonna be even close to filling that gap for a long time.
I hope you mean diablo 2 and not diablo3 
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On February 15 2013 04:36 eAZy1 wrote:
I hope Blizzard's been working on Warcraft 4 for years now, but that's just the stupid optimist who still thinks of Blizzard as the guys who made SC, War2, War3, Diablo, and Diablo3. I'd love for a new strategy game in the Warcraft universe with heroes leveling up and stuff...
But honestly, Dota's probably the only game that's gonna be even close to filling that gap for a long time.
Its hard for me to have any faith in blizzard since they don't really have the people who made blizzard blizzard anymore. They have C&C people.
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EPT
