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On December 26 2012 09:46 oneofthem wrote:
to trick you into getting scepter on necrolyte? master trolling
Why what's wrong with scepter on Necro? At least I think he's one of the heroes on my list that I would normally want a scepter with every game. As a rushed core item even, usually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd item. I guess I can call it a "must" item, meaning the bonuses are too good to pass up for the specific hero and role (stat wise and actual scepter upgrade). Here's my list:
1. Tiny
2. Necrolyte
3. Bane
4. Brewmaster
5. Chen
6. Doom Bringer
7. Enchantress
8. Invoker
9. Juggernaut
10. Lina
11. Lion
13. Meepo
14. Pudge
15. Pugna
16. Queen of Pain
17. Zeus
18. Night Stalker
19. Clockwerk
20. Witch Doctor
Give or take, that's my list. Of course still situational but for the most part, I will rush scepter on those heroes. After the usual upgraded boots, magic wand, wraiths/nulls/bracers and maybe bottle.
EDIT: after some thoughts and a quick look again, I changed some lol.
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United States47024 Posts
Necrolyte Scepter is good to turn your Point Booster into later on. The major midgame team items (Mek, Pipe) take higher priority if your team doesn't have them, and when compared to the later-game supportive caster items (Sheep, Shiva's), it depends a lot on the tempo of the game. I wouldn't call it core, though.
I don't agree with the majority of that list. Also amusing that you don't have NS and Clock on there, seeing as both of those heroes buy Scepter more often that some of your list.
Pugna Scepter is one of the biggest noob traps. Not because the Scepter effect is bad, but because there are a lot of game scenarios where it's not even correct to level your ult over Stats, particularly when the game doesn't allow you to stand and channel ult. On the whole it falls in the same category as Nec--good thing to build your Point Booster into, but Mek/Pipe take priority, and situational when compared to Sheep/Shiva's.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Scepter is definitely not a core item on necro.
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On December 26 2012 10:23 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 09:46 oneofthem wrote:
to trick you into getting scepter on necrolyte? master trolling Why what's wrong with scepter on Necro? At least I think he's one of the heroes on my list that I would normally want a scepter with every game. As a rushed core item even, usually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd item. I guess I can call it a "must" item, meaning the bonuses are too good to pass up for the specific hero and role (stat wise and actual scepter upgrade). Here's my list: 1. Tiny 2. Necrolyte 3. Bane 4. Brewmaster 5. Chen 6. Doom Bringer 7. Enchantress 8. Invoker 9. Juggernaut 10. Lina 11. Lion 13. Meepo 14. Pudge 15. Pugna 16. Queen of Pain 17. Zeus Give or take, that's my list. Of course still situational but for the most part, I will rush scepter on those heroes. After the usual upgraded boots, magic wand, wraiths/nulls/bracers and maybe bottle.
wtf... a good number of those heroes i dont get a scepter for, much less rush one.... i have never got one on doom...
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Yeah I guess I'm one of the noobs who really just like scepter. Though I may have added too many heroes on the list and missed some, as I only went over it quickly in my head.
I do agree NS and Clock is good with it too. Oops. I'll revise my list later lol.
And now that I think about it, scepter on Necro is only great on pubs for maximum KS potential (which I love doing with Necro, especially with heartstopper aura ownage).
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
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If you want to ks with necro Dagon is a lot better.
Edit: Ninjaed D:
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United States47024 Posts
On December 26 2012 10:42 trinxified wrote:
Yeah I guess I'm one of the noobs who really just like scepter. Though I may have added too many heroes on the list and missed some, as I only went over it quickly in my head.
I do agree NS and Clock is good with it too. Oops. I'll revise my list later lol.
And now that I think about it, scepter on Necro is great on pubs for maximum KS potential.
The thing about Necrolyte Scepter is that it still doesn't damage through BKB, so nothing of what Scepter actually upgrades does anything into BKB (and the high-value targets you typically ult will be the ones who have BKB).
Which means Scepter has 2 primary times where it'd be good: a) before they have BKB, b) when their BKB only lasts 5 seconds and leaves you room to ult them after. Mek/Pipe are much more game-changing early game, so you will get those first--meaning you are unlikely to finish Scepter significantly before BKBs. And then you're generally going to put off Scepter until the enemy team uses up their higher-duration BKBs unless they chose not to get any against Necrolyte.
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On December 26 2012 10:33 TheYango wrote:
Necrolyte Scepter is good to turn your Point Booster into later on. The major midgame team items (Mek, Pipe) take higher priority if your team doesn't have them, and when compared to the later-game supportive caster items (Sheep, Shiva's), it depends a lot on the tempo of the game. I wouldn't call it core, though.
I don't agree with the majority of that list. Also amusing that you don't have NS and Clock on there, seeing as both of those heroes buy Scepter more often that some of your list.
Pugna Scepter is one of the biggest noob traps. Not because the Scepter effect is bad, but because there are a lot of game scenarios where it's not even correct to level your ult over Stats, particularly when the game doesn't allow you to stand and channel ult. On the whole it falls in the same category as Nec--good thing to build your Point Booster into, but Mek/Pipe take priority, and situational when compared to Sheep/Shiva's.
0 second cooldown and even if it ticks for 2-3 seconds, that's already good damage. If dota2 wiki is still correct, 300 damage per second at level 16. Long range too.
But yes you're right, if your team isn't ahead by a lot, Pugna needs to be running around a lot since his nuke already has delay too.
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i always get scepter on pugna, not because its the most ideal item, but because it makes the hero so much more fun to play.
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On December 26 2012 10:44 Firebolt145 wrote:
Not compared to dagon.
I don't want to be flamed too hard.  Technically I can dagon with Lina and Lion too instead of scepter, but I really just Dagon on Nyx, WD, SD, Pugna.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 26 2012 10:52 tpmraven wrote:
i always get scepter on pugna, not because its the most ideal item, but because it makes the hero so much more fun to play.
Pressing D/R a lot is more fun than having more active items (Mek/Force/Sheep/Shiva's)?
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Fuk dat, dagon/eblade on necro. Ult them at full hp, eb/dagon during the stun, insta kill ~
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On December 26 2012 10:55 Firebolt145 wrote:
Fuk dat, dagon/eblade on necro. Ult them at full hp, eb/dagon during the stun, insta kill ~
I'd get blade on support intels, but I really hate having to get a Eaglesong instead of Mystic Staff.
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Better to just get a sheep instead of an Eblade....like 95% of the time.
As for Aghanims Core: Tiny, Meepo, Brewmaster, Invoker, & Enchantress......that's all that comes to mind.. Then situational Beast, Venomancer, and QoP if they has the $$.
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1. Tiny
2. Necrolyte
3. Bane
4. Brewmaster
5. Chen
6. Doom Bringer
7. Enchantress
8. Invoker
9. Juggernaut
10. Lina
11. Lion
13. Meepo
14. Pudge
15. Pugna
16. Queen of Pain
17. Zeus
The must-have scepter heroes are: Tiny, Meepo, Chen, Witch Doctor (LOOK AT IT GO)
The scepter is really good on this hero, but there are also other good items to go for: Invoker, QoP, Zeus, Jugger, Pugna, Darkseer, Balanar, Brew, Vengeful Spirit Beastmaster
The it's a good item but there are better: Clock Bane Enchantress Pudge Furion Ogre(<3) CM Warlock Lesh Axe Visage Earthquaker and Crixalis Rhasta Dazzle
The you should not go scepter on this hero: Rest
Dont know why you would ever place Lina and Lion over Meepo. Scepter is awful on Lion. Like 300dmg every 60sec for 4400g? 1sec longer Doom on Doom bringer? With 300g more you would have gotten shivas instead of scepter and Shivas is way better on Doom.
Better items for necro are: Mek, Pipe, Bloodstone(*), Shivas, Heart, Sheepstick
* Note that Bloodstone is a snowballing item. It helps you win more when you are already winning. It's NOT an item you get when you are behind to get back into the game. It is based on participating in a lot of kills and still not die.
Also a small shoutout for Agh on Viper cause Aui_2000 goes Mek -> Scepter on Viper when they dont have a good mek carrier. I dont like it at all on Viper but Aui is obviously better than me and he knows what he is doing so have to point it out.
Also note that I am tired and wrote this post, so probably forgot some heroes. If you have any questions regarding stuff feel free to pm me.
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Tiny huh? IMO his slow attack speed needs to be compensated for first before grabbing the scepter or if you're confident that scepter alone will boost up your GPM (it won't without tiny attacking faster i think) and the toss damage is marginal at best.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Or a veil if we're talking support intels.
On topic: I think aghanims on necro is a bit underrated by people. It pretty much counteracts a hood on the hero in terms of the ult damage, which can be a lot if the target has a big hp pool.
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oh and btw, while i can agree that scepter isn't a requirement on Night Stalker, it is one of the best possible items to have on him. it's basically maphacking.
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On December 26 2012 11:06 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +
1. Tiny
2. Necrolyte
3. Bane
4. Brewmaster
5. Chen
6. Doom Bringer
7. Enchantress
8. Invoker
9. Juggernaut
10. Lina
11. Lion
13. Meepo
14. Pudge
15. Pugna
16. Queen of Pain
17. Zeus
The must-have scepter heroes are: Tiny, Meepo, Chen, Witch Doctor (LOOK AT IT GO) The scepter is really good on this hero, but there are also other good items to go for: Invoker, QoP, Zeus, Jugger, Pugna, Darkseer, Balanar, Brew, Vengeful Spirit Beastmaster The it's a good item but there are better: Clock Bane Enchantress Pudge Furion Ogre(<3) CM Warlock Lesh Axe Visage Earthquaker and Crixalis Rhasta Dazzle The you should not go scepter on this hero: Rest Dont know why you would ever place Lina and Lion over Meepo. Scepter is awful on Lion. Like 300dmg every 60sec for 4400g? 1sec longer Doom on Doom bringer? With 300g more you would have gotten shivas instead of scepter and Shivas is way better on Doom. Better items for necro are: Mek, Pipe, Bloodstone(*), Shivas, Heart, Sheepstick * Note that Bloodstone is a snowballing item. It helps you win more when you are already winning. It's NOT an item you get when you are behind to get back into the game. It is based on participating in a lot of kills and still not die. Also note that I am tired and wrote this post, so probably forgot some heroes. If you have any questions regarding stuff feel free to pm me.
I agree with you. TBH, most of the heroes I listed are just there too because of the stat bonuses I get with the scepter that allows me to live longer/spam more of my other spells, rather than just strictly getting it for the ultimate upgrade.
And I like the item transition towards getting a scepter. Gives you so much survivability and mana along the way.
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EPT
