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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
On November 10 2012 21:19 NB wrote: thats why you see people time it so the hook land as the cyclone run out. It is quite an old school core item on pudge and sandking and puck. eh as in you can hook while the cyclone hasnt run out lol | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
On November 10 2012 20:41 LAN-f34r wrote: The point isn't to harass TA with nukes, but the creeps. With otherwise weak mids (melee) you get the best case scenario - you aren't harassed (much), you get farm, and you get runes. sure, you can occasionally get a nuke or two off when her shield is down from creeps, but that isn't the point. Also, being in melee range of creeps means that it is much easier to avoid spill, and if she goes on you then creeps quickly break refraction. I just fail to see how TA is so effective. it's really not that hard to avoid having creeps burn off refraction and again, meld wrecks melee mids | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 10 2012 20:52 Kipsate wrote: How is he unkilleable if you have to spend atleast 2 points in Enfeeble and 1 in point in Nightmare that gives you 2 points in Sap, you don't become unkilleable then, and that QoP will be ~level 3 at best against a level 6 TA mid. Certainly more survivable than a lvl 6 cm or a lvl 6 venomancer, you know the people you compare someone to when talking about "unkillable as far as supports go" TA wouldn't be CLOSE to 6 if you play the bane/ta matchup TA should have almost no last hits and should have had to deal with obscene numbers of denies since her damage is eliminated. it'd likely be a level 3-4 TA vs a lvl 3-4 QOP. bane could easily go up to your carries lane and then your support tide rotates to the offlane at lvl 3 (when tide starts being survivable in offlane anyway) | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
In the midlane you can be a level 6 Bane against a Level 3-4 TA? I would like to see this before I believe it. You took an example of 20/20 20 denies does not give your opponent level 3-4. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 10 2012 21:27 Kipsate wrote: But we don't sent those supports mid, well Venomancer can be send mid against TA I suppose. In the midlane you can be a level 6 Bane against a Level 3-4 TA? I would like to see this before I believe it. You took an example of 20/20 20 denies does not give your opponent level 3-4. 20 denies can remove 880 XP from a character, it takes 900 xp to reach lvl 4 1400 xp to reach level 5 and 2000 xp to reach lvl 6. when bane hits 2000 xp 20 denies will put TA at 1120 XP which is lvl 4. and thats assuming you only get 20 denies, which when the other player has such a small damage pool he's pretty unlikely to be able to contest much of your denies. add to that how strong nightmare is to set up a gank on TA (eat refraction and hold in place is good) and you can probably fully deny at least a wave (as in push TA out of xp range) through a death or return trip. So yeah the math puts you at lvl 4 with 20 denies alone, but much more than that is likely when you dominate your lane that hard. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Anyway the easiest way is to put this to the test I suppose?If you can get on Dota and add me under Kipsate we can try this out. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 10 2012 21:37 heishe wrote: I'm interested in something: To you guys who have played both a Blizzard RTS and Dota at a decent competitive level, would you say you notice a difference in how much effort is required to become good and play well at both games? whats the definition of play well. i used to compete in a lot of the small open cups and do fairly well in starcraft 2, and in dota 1 i competed in the CAL O and subbed for CAL I. which i'd probably consider similar levels. um it's probably easier to get to the skill level needed for THAT for sc2 than dota. however BW i'd say it's much harder than dota to get to the same level. In both blizzard games it's far easier to enter the scene than dota though. it's pretty ridiculously hard to get to get on a team that competes with pro players than it is to enter a cup that a pro enters in sc2 or play in any non invite foreign BW tournament. but that probably stems from the team aspect, since until you get noticed you can't get a good enough team to compete.where as once you reach the level in a single player rts you can just enter the open cups. Also kipsate, i'm pretty shit with Bane. so that won't work. xD i suggest someone who doesn't suck with his attack animation do it. and having a 20 damage advantage is still a big deny advantage, assuming TA has refraction up constantly and bane never nightmares to prevent ta from even last hitting in the first place. | ||
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Earll
Norway847 Posts
On November 10 2012 21:39 Kipsate wrote: Also, TA has 104 damage at level 3(Refraction shot) and Bane has level 61 assuming both have gg branches, 104 minus 60 is still 40 damage, added that TA can get Meld if he wants to she will always get creeps. Anyway the easiest way is to put this to the test I suppose?If you can get on Dota and add me under Kipsate we can try this out. indeed, taking into consideration refraction damage, from level 1-3 the damage difference of sap vs refraction + the base damage is 8, its not like bane automatically wins the lane and gets every single deny by having 8 bonus damage, | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On November 10 2012 21:42 PrinceXizor wrote: whats the definition of play well. i used to compete in a lot of the small open cups and do fairly well in starcraft 2, and in dota 1 i competed in the CAL O and subbed for CAL I. which i'd probably consider similar levels. um it's probably easier to get to the skill level needed for THAT for sc2 than dota. however BW i'd say it's much harder than dota to get to the same level. In both blizzard games it's far easier to enter the scene than dota though. it's pretty ridiculously hard to get to get on a team that competes with pro players than it is to enter a cup that a pro enters in sc2 or play in any non invite foreign BW tournament. but that probably stems from the team aspect, since until you get noticed you can't get a good enough team to compete.where as once you reach the level in a single player rts you can just enter the open cups. Also kipsate, i'm pretty shit with Bane. so that won't work. xD i suggest someone who doesn't suck with his attack animation do it. and having a 20 damage advantage is still a big deny advantage, assuming TA has refraction up constantly and bane never nightmares to prevent ta from even last hitting in the first place. I don't deny its an advantage, I also don't think that TA will have the upper hand, I just think TA won't level level 3 or 4 by the time Bane is 6 nor do I think it is worth the investment compared to when you run other solo's mid. 20 damage is large I don't disagree. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
and only being able to compete with bane on 3 attacks a wave sucks and then when bane hits 3 it gets even harder, especially since bane is guaranteed to hit 3 before TA hits 3. TA will have only 20 damage for 3 hits when bane hits 3. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On November 10 2012 23:17 Slardar wrote: Opened my first Diretide Chest..........Rare Slardar Trident. #WINNING! I was like Slardar? meeeh. Then I checked who's talking  | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On November 10 2012 20:16 PrinceXizor wrote: i have an empty egg.  i wanted a black or a naked one but i can't get any essencesDo those not need at least 1 essence? So the egg is "imbued egg" instead of just a "greevil egg" Do at you own risk I suppose On November 10 2012 20:41 LAN-f34r wrote: The point isn't to harass TA with nukes, but the creeps. With otherwise weak mids (melee) you get the best case scenario - you aren't harassed (much), you get farm, and you get runes. sure, you can occasionally get a nuke or two off when her shield is down from creeps, but that isn't the point. Also, being in melee range of creeps means that it is much easier to avoid spill, and if she goes on you then creeps quickly break refraction. I just fail to see how TA is so effective. It´s hard to impossible to evade spill damage and last hit as melee. TA doesn´t need to ever attack you directly, just spill damage is enough. I don´t remember if I last went as melee against TA before or after they fixed spill damage being in a too big area. Melees doing well against TA is absurd, because TA has (even if small) range advantage, harass with no creepaggro, refraction for huge damage on that harass and protection against nukes. TA was 'ok' in DotA 1. Mind you, in Dota 1 her spill damage might as well not have existed so unreliable and insignifcant was it. So she´s actually pretty powerful now that spill damage works. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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