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On September 19 2012 08:50 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:48 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 19 2012 08:44 PrinceXizor wrote:
Nevermind. you guys have reached the critical mass of absurd counter arguments, if yango wants to talk to me about offlane bara he's reasonable, but i'm done trying to explain somethign to a wall of "but if's" On September 19 2012 08:45 TheYango wrote:
Basically we're at the point where you're using Nether Strike as a Primal Roar that has 200 less range, moves you into the enemy team, does less damage, and doesn't have the AoE effect for teamfights.
I think we're done. quick edit because Yango also has this absurd argument like the rest of us! no that argument is completely different than "he's bad because if he gets stunned until death he's useless, which applies to every hero except MAYBE tidehunter because kracken shell can let him ulti in certain situations.
Except getting stunned to death has a much greater possibility when you're using an ability with 400 range. If I'm super squishy from being on the offlane and underfarmed I'd much rather have an ability that has range than one that requires me to not only get close, but then teleport me next to the target when I use it.
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Please just stop arguing with him. You won't change his mind and it does nothing but clutter up this thread with garbage. It's the exact same argument we've seen here before. One guy with an opinion with zero evidence against other guys with the opposite opinion with evidence but neither side will change their minds so it's a pointless argument that achieves nothing.
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On September 19 2012 08:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:51 Judicator wrote:On September 19 2012 08:46 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:45 Judicator wrote:On September 19 2012 08:42 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly. Unless he gets stunned while he is charging in and dies before he can ult because he's behind in farm/levels. well... you don't CHARGE IN. you walk in like everyone else (but very fast) and then ulti at max range for it. if they stun you once you start the ulti you are ulting them even if you die. I mean you can make an argument for every character being useless if they stun and kill you before you do anything... that's hardly any argument against any character. "antimage is terrible, you just disable him and he can't do anything about it without a bkb....duh. Are you really comparing Blink to Empowering Haste? Your post also suggests that you really don't understand Bara's problems. no... i'm comparing your ridiculous arguments to other ridiculous arguments... Please explain what is ridiculous. You realize this hero wasnt used at high levels ( the ihs) even when his charge gave immunity right? You realize the issues everyone brought up has been known since like 6.27 in Dota 1 right? You realize the situations that people described are fairly common issues at the PUB level let alone within the high skill communities, right? it's ridiculous to claim a hero is useless because if he gets chained stunned he doesn't do anything. like i was responding to when i said that. and to further expound on that i said that the same scenario applies to antimage, if he gets stunned into death he's just as useless as bara.
You seem to like to think vacuum situations. He's getting chain stunned because his disables all require him to run into the other team. AMs blink instantly puts him in or out of a fight during spell cds. SB does not. This is also the reasonin behind the DK ranged stun buff in dragon form (hurray for precedence!). Sand King has storm blink if hes not setting up for epi. SB has none of these benefits much like Huskar's ulti. Like Huskar, once SB is committed to the fight, he's in a poor positional advantage and even more so if Drums or Force staff is up. Unlike Beastmaster, his ulti doesnt disrupt the other team. So you have a low burst (compared to other options) hero who isnt all that tanky with not one but two skills that puts his ass right next to the tower or team. Is that somehow good in any situation?
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On September 19 2012 09:07 Numy wrote:
Please just stop arguing with him. You won't change his mind and it does nothing but clutter up this thread with garbage. It's the exact same argument we've seen here before. One guy with an opinion with zero evidence against other guys with the opposite opinion with evidence but neither side will change their minds so it's a pointless argument that achieves nothing.
We had awesome graphs back then.
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I'm so happy PrinceXizor is here, soon people will perhaps forget about me and concentrate on the bigger villains 
Not that I have any time to play the game until I finish Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime and perhaps a few others... If only Baldr Sky Dive 1 was translated already sigh.
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Look just move on i'm done with this sorry i tried to explain myself. I just have a headache now. Think what you want. i really don't care sorry.
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On September 19 2012 09:14 Heh_ wrote:https://dotabuff.com/players/8671874154% of games with PA............................................................. Play invoker. You have 100% winrate with him. That shit's OP, yo.
Last match 6 days ago, currently Visual Novels >>>>> Dota. Don't worry I'll play a lot more after I read through these. Also people stalking my match history really cool ...
On September 19 2012 09:12 PrinceXizor wrote:
Look just move on i'm done with this sorry i tried to explain myself. I just have a headache now. Think what you want. i really don't care sorry.
Didn't you do this exact same thing with Evelynn solo top in the LoL forums? o_O Why are you giving up so much easier this time? Your idea is approximately just as bad.
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That was rather creepy and random. I think he has a thing for you.
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On September 19 2012 08:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:19 Numy wrote:
You can't really compare him to a BH or a tide because both those heroes don't need anything aside from levels to be effective. The strength of a BH offlane is that it requires a commitment from the enemy to shut down in terms of sentries and without farm he can still do something for the team while getting that farm in the form of track(vision/ms/gold) and a ranged nuke. The slow/invis are both useful but not always relevant. A tide only needs 6 in order to be useful for his team and needs no farm. A SB has none of those characteristics. He's naturally tanky but he has to use his tankiness to achieve anything while as the prior heroes don't actually need to be tanky to achieve anything on the map.
I'm not basing this off pure theorycrafting, I actually play offlane at a decently high level in EU dota and I can't see a situation where a SB will ever be able to get levels another hero who could arguably do more could get. Compare his laning to tide and his team contribution to BH, BH provides help in the form of vision/ms/gold (track) and a ranged damage source Bara provides help in the form of vision (charge cross map)/ms(empowered haste)/stuns (bash/charge/ulti) and a ranged damage source (ulti) Tide has to play cowardly and settle for xp early on while being able to wade in and get a few last hits as he levels Bara has to play cowardly and settle for xp early on while being able to wade in a get a few last hits as he levels. not comparable? side note: did steam go down for anyone else? tide/BH both are banned/picked up relatively early as well, bara provides a drafting advantage as well.
I can´t keep hearing this.
BH can walk around invis 24/7 from level 1.
Bara can hide in trees.
BH gets the all your teammate gold upon a kill. BH can provide vision on more than 1 target on very low cooldown, anytime.
Bara doesn´t give you any gold. Bara provides you vision for however long it takes for him to reach the target. On a 7 times longer cooldown.
So he can do it far less, and only on far away targets instead of everyone anytime.
Tide gets a huge ultimate at level 6 that people fear, that is combo´d with Siren and as often stolen by Rubick as he can.
825 range AREA stun.
Bara gets an ultimate which procs his 0.95 - 1.5 sec stun on his target after he teleported next to it. With 400 range.
Venge swap is suicide, but often guarantees a kill. Well this puts you into the same danger, but it DOESN´T guarantee a kill.
If you have the weaknesses of 2 good heroes, but the strength of neither, than you have a shitty hero.
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I just realized I put poor positional advantage. #wtfisthat. Posting from iphone -30 to int.
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On September 19 2012 08:51 paper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:49 Kaal wrote:On September 19 2012 08:47 N3rV[Green] wrote:
All it comes down to is there are heroes that offlane FAR better than bara, and he's useless without items which is exactly what you don't want on your offlaner. Also "very high matchmaking" is still trashcan pubbers compared to competitive dota. Proof: Blahz0r is in very high matchmaking. =x
it is actually a huge accomplishment to have a bot get to very high
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
well at least we had some good discussion on spiritbreaker, who gets no love
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Spiritbreaker deserves no love. He needs to be remade into something new.
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The only way I can see him as being useful is maybe turning his agha ult into his normal ult.
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On September 19 2012 09:37 Benjef wrote:
The only way I can see him as being useful is maybe turning his agha ult into his normal ult.
You don't think lowering his Q cooldown to like 10s would do the trick?
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His Charge needs to be reworked to something like it starts off at max then drops off at some rate rather than the other way around. His Greater Bash could be re-worked to actually apply some minor ms debuff (like Slardar's Crush) so opposing heroes just can't Drum and vroom vroom away if Strike is down.
Also does anyone know if he still works the same way he did in Dota 1, namely his damage on the first hit coming out of Charge? The de facto build on him for a long time was to rush BoT for the insane damage coming out of Charge.
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On September 19 2012 09:11 Shikyo wrote:I'm so happy PrinceXizor is here, soon people will perhaps forget about me and concentrate on the bigger villains Not that I have any time to play the game until I finish Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime and perhaps a few others... If only Baldr Sky Dive 1 was translated already sigh.
i was half expecting you to say 'it was me all along!' :p
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On September 19 2012 09:50 Judicator wrote:
His Charge needs to be reworked to something like it starts off at max then drops off at some rate rather than the other way around. His Greater Bash could be re-worked to actually apply some minor ms debuff (like Slardar's Crush) so opposing heroes just can't Drum and vroom vroom away if Strike is down.
Also does anyone know if he still works the same way he did in Dota 1, namely his damage on the first hit coming out of Charge? The de facto build on him for a long time was to rush BoT for the insane damage coming out of Charge.
so... spirit breaker doesn't work anything like you think he does anymore..
his charge is a flat speed it doesn't ramp up at all anymore it also auto bashes anyone nearby him as he's charging (like roar pushes aside in the path inbetween). caps out at 650 speed (from start)
his greater bash gives him a 15% movespeed buff every time it procs for 3 seconds..
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EPT
