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On September 19 2012 08:30 PrinceXizor wrote:
All in all i'm not saying bara is an all-situations pick for offlane. if you want that go with windrunner or broodmother or like beastmaster. I feel he can work in: a ganking lineup with a carry + ganking support + enchant/another support in safe lane and a middle able to assist in ganks. AGAINST a lineup that will not have a defensive tri lane (except maybe one with enigma/chen as they don't show themselves often until later levels). Thats the situation i see him useful in. not like "everyone pick bara he can do anything". He'd shine in that role in that draft.
and we're saying how would bara actually be better in that one situation.
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who else can you reliably draft as a 5th pick in a situation like that? what characters get through 10 bans and 8-9 picks reliably enough that you can choose them almost every time over bara?
EDIT: good to know i'm not crazy about steam being down ty ty.
EDIT 2: and if we are talking dream draft vs dream draft i'd never see bara picked, but he's certainly a useful alternative and reliable pick in those games.people aren't going to spend bans on bara.
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I can imagine situations where Bara might be a useful pick but in that scenario you have described I just don't see it happening.
On September 19 2012 08:34 PrinceXizor wrote:
who else can you reliably draft as a 5th pick in a situation like that? what characters get through 10 bans and 8-9 picks reliably enough that you can choose them almost every time over bara?
EDIT: good to know i'm not crazy about steam being down ty ty.
Drafting doesn't really work like this. Making up some crazy blanket situation picks isn't really the way to go about thinking about a viability of a hero in a certain role.
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United States47024 Posts
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. And NOT covering these aspects is leaving your teamcomp with certain glaring weaknesses (lack of disables = weak teamfight, lack of AoE weak counterpush).
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He's really not that good at ganking despite what people think UNLESS you are ahead and by ahead I mean quick level 7 and BoT.
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Like puppey said after they got what they need for that game they could even gone bara or bs.
I play hardlane all the time (like literally more than 40% of my game is hardlane) and if you wanted me to play bara offline. I will say: 'hey i can make abandon, this one is on me, you are welcomed'.
The thing is any hero can hardlane, ie usually allowing your team 4v3 or 4v2 on map to gain advantage while you can slowly get back your farm after you start to join fight; in bara's case, he would be HUGE burden for the team after that 10mins of hardlane with 0 farm.
OR, you can bash every single hit you hit then we have a new metagame to talk about.
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On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin.
bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly.
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On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly.
Unless he gets stunned while he is charging in and dies before he can ult because he's behind in farm/levels.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Bara offlane can't get back in the game and offers no midgame presence.
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Or he just dies to spells. Bara never handled burst damage well.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly.
Ulti has 400 range lol. That's prohibitively short for relying on it as your reliable single-target disable.
Yes I know the range increases with levels. But getting to level 11 is a pipe dream for off-lane Bara.
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On September 19 2012 08:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly. Unless he gets stunned while he is charging in and dies before he can ult because he's behind in farm/levels.
well... you don't CHARGE IN. you walk in like everyone else (but very fast) and then ulti at max range for it. if they stun you once you start the ulti you are ulting them even if you die. I mean you can make an argument for every character being useless if they stun and kill you before you do anything... that's hardly any argument against any character. "antimage is terrible, you just disable him and he can't do anything about it without a bkb....duh.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Well we don't offlane an AM either.
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On September 19 2012 08:42 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly. Unless he gets stunned while he is charging in and dies before he can ult because he's behind in farm/levels. well... you don't CHARGE IN. you walk in like everyone else (but very fast) and then ulti at max range for it. if they stun you once you start the ulti you are ulting them even if you die. I mean you can make an argument for every character being useless if they stun and kill you before you do anything... that's hardly any argument against any character. "antimage is terrible, you just disable him and he can't do anything about it without a bkb....duh.
There's a big difference between walking up to stun at 400 range and stunning at higher ranges, and if you just want to throw away a character to walk up and stun you might as well play tide so it's area of effect.
also Steam back up.
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You could make a case for AM being a better offlaner than Bara though. I mean he has an escape and a passive spell damage reduction!
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Nevermind. you guys have reached the critical mass of absurd counter arguments, if yango wants to talk to me about offlane bara he's reasonable, but i'm done trying to explain somethign to a wall of "but if's"
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United States47024 Posts
Basically we're at the point where you're using Nether Strike as a Primal Roar that has 200 less range, moves you into the enemy team, does less damage, and doesn't have the AoE effect for teamfights.
I think we're done.
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On September 19 2012 08:42 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 08:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 19 2012 08:39 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 19 2012 08:35 TheYango wrote:
Incidentally, I actually think having Enchant+Bara is almost impossible to draft for. You have two picks that don't bring reliable disables (AoE or single-target) and that don't bring any AoE for teamfight/counterpush. Having to cover all these bases on your 3 remaining picks (1 of which is your 1st position carry that quite often doesn't have any of these aspects) is stretching yourself pretty thin. bara has reliable single target disable, pretty damn easy to ulti attack attack charge to stun for 4 seconds. unless you have it in your head the only way bara ever can fight is charge from fountain into ulti. then you would be bad. i only mention enchant because she's an aggressive pick that often dives, and vision from bara charge helps those dives significantly. Unless he gets stunned while he is charging in and dies before he can ult because he's behind in farm/levels. well... you don't CHARGE IN. you walk in like everyone else (but very fast) and then ulti at max range for it. if they stun you once you start the ulti you are ulting them even if you die. I mean you can make an argument for every character being useless if they stun and kill you before you do anything... that's hardly any argument against any character. "antimage is terrible, you just disable him and he can't do anything about it without a bkb....duh.
Are you really comparing Blink to Empowering Haste? Your post also suggests that you really don't understand Bara's problems.
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EPT
