EPTalso talkdota is pretty fun, puppey and synderen are great guys.
General Discussion - Page 1052
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Cocacooh
Norway1510 Posts
also talkdota is pretty fun, puppey and synderen are great guys. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On September 19 2012 04:16 Benjef wrote: The amount of "troll/gimicky" builds in dota is endless, makes some pubs quite funny. Ran across a dagon axe earlier who swore by it. Blink > dagon > ult = insta kill. Seems like a less amusing adaptation of the old Dagon Terrorblade build. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 19 2012 04:35 PrinceXizor wrote: Am i strange for thinking that spirit breaker isn't as bad as we all have thought... I think he'd be a decent offlaner... thought process: as an offlane start stout + double branch + gauntlet + tango Phase + drums first two items cheap parts easy to farm, ect ect ect. sb provides a few key abilities to ganking support tri lane/enchantress based lineups. charge vision very useful for tracking down kills from jukes in trees for dives, easy easy setup for ganks in his lane vs the carry (ulti into shackle/swap/fissure) and can get anywhere he needs to be. his big team fight comes from an aga staff post phase drums and the parts actually help Sb a lot. drums + aura is a passive 17% movespeed aura in an aoe, IE perma phase boots for his team. Feel like he'd be decent in an offlane role. since the cheap core (phase drums) means he can piece meal it based on whatever farm he gets and he scales well with levels too. | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
http://www.playdota.com/heroes/ember-spirit To me it seems like he has jug ult, treant ult, storm ult, and TA refraction. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:12 PrinceXizor wrote: thought process: as an offlane start stout + double branch + gauntlet + tango Phase + drums first two items cheap parts easy to farm, ect ect ect. sb provides a few key abilities to ganking support tri lane/enchantress based lineups. charge vision very useful for tracking down kills from jukes in trees for dives, easy easy setup for ganks in his lane vs the carry (ulti into shackle/swap/fissure) and can get anywhere he needs to be. his big team fight comes from an aga staff post phase drums and the parts actually help Sb a lot. drums + aura is a passive 17% movespeed aura in an aoe, IE perma phase boots for his team. Feel like he'd be decent in an offlane role. since the cheap core (phase drums) means he can piece meal it based on whatever farm he gets and he scales well with levels too. There's a few things that are a criteria for an offlaner: 1) How do you get any farm - SB can't 2) How do you survive if you try sneak xp - SB can't 3) Can you do anything without farm or items - SB can't And thus SB is a shit offlaner. If you are talking about pub duallane in the "offlane" then sure why not. Don't apply pub logic to comp games. SB offlane would be akin to a Tide offlane. The biggest difference is tide only needs 6 and doesn't need farm. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
http://www.alienwarearena.com/giveaway/dota-2-invite-key/ | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
He might be good in combat, but for laning he is utter shit. And bad laners usually are the carry on the trilane, not the dude getting by on th hard lane. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:29 Numy wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase.There's a few things that are a criteria for an offlaner: 1) How do you get any farm - SB can't 2) How do you survive if you try sneak xp - SB can't 3) Can you do anything without farm or items - SB can't And thus SB is a shit offlaner. If you are talking about pub duallane in the "offlane" then sure why not. Don't apply pub logic to comp games. SB offlane would be akin to a Tide offlane. The biggest difference is tide only needs 6 and doesn't need farm. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. Wait what? What is a barathrum level 1 gonna do against a leaschrac that skilled diabolic edict? Because that is absolutely possible and it would destroy him. In serious DotA, one does not simply gain experience. You have to earn your right from level 1 to stay in exp range. Offlane means 2v1 or 3v1 and bara can only bash 1 enemy. Charge does no damage upon hit. He is a melee hero that can only autohit for lanecontrol. How exactly does he survive when 2 guys autoattack him lvl 1? | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. How is he not easy to lock down? I can see him in an offensive trilane but as a suicide solo? He'd be zoned to hell and back. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. The only chance he has is if your opponents are running an offensive trilane, but that is merely because it'll be a 1v1 and then pretty much any hero gets farm. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. agree with numy there's no way that you're gonna be getting those items in any kind of timely fashion because you're just gonna be forced out of the lane with barely any farm and scraps of experience. you cant even really gank other lanes with a low level low farm sb when you could have other heroes that would be so much more useful in the same situation. feel free to include replay numbers if you succeeded with him in a game or something | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. How is he not the helpless little cow you make him out to be? He can get close to his target easily, but a competent team will stun him out of charge and kill him while hes close to his target. Do you mean SB soloing offlane? Because his only purpose will be to stack ancients. He can't jungle, roam or gank because level 1 charge is such a shitty spell. He cant sneak into exp range because any support will push him out of it, and if hes solo vs a trilane he has even less chance because the 2 supports will kill him. If he has drums and phase boots he can run away very easily because he has max movespeed all day, but he won't even get to those items unless his team won the other 2 lanes and wins the midgame with him, at which point any other hero is better to have. Can you explain how he can get in and out of positions safely? Charge shows on your buff bar, so if your carry is getting charged they can have 2-3 people with tp support, and then stun to negate charge. With level 4 charge he can escape from bad situations, but if a team is split up and saves a stun for him they can instantly negate charge and kill him. Theres a reason why hes never been picked in any role in competitve games, much less as an offlane hero. I agree with Numy's assessment entirely because its correct. If you're talking about pub games I can solo offlane because they won't static the lane and i'll be able to get level 6 by sitting at my tower and watching creeps push into it. In a progame you'll be level 3 with 0 cs and lose both offlane towers in like 7-8 minutes. If you play him as a carry in a trilane hes a bad carry but it can work if you get farm, in which case you want AM, morph, void, naga or bear instead. If you play him as a support in a trilane hes competely useless since charge won't be useful until level 5. If you run him solo offlane vs solo shortlane he can get some farm, but hes very vulnerable to ganks and he loses in most lanes. Vs any range hero they can keep him out of exp range. VS a solo brood your tower will die. VS a solo panda you will do fine assuming nobody ganks you, but panda is much more useful than you in fights. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:54 PrinceXizor wrote: I pretty much completely disagree with this assessment of bara. he's not gonna be like a brood/seer/windrunner in terms of easy farm, but he's certainly not this helpless little cow you make him out to be. sb can get in and out of positions safely, is difficult to lock down, and does remarkably well with drums +phase. and in the situations i mention, that of enchant jungle + gank support or tri lane gank support (or wisp lineup ect ect) you can clearly offlane with him well. not saying it's super easy, but a good offlaner can make him work very well there i feel and he'd complement those lineups better than most other heroes that slip through the cracks by the end of 2nd ban phase. Have you ever tried to play sb against a stun. There is fun time and then there is stun time. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:27 Emnjay808 wrote: Im looking at ember spirit and his skills look so strong. http://www.playdota.com/heroes/ember-spirit To me it seems like he has jug ult, treant ult, storm ult, and TA refraction. that isnt jugg ult his "treant ult" is extremely limited, takes good use of positioning to use in teamfights but is an awesome ganking spell combined with fire remnant it aint TA refraction, it only blocks magic damage and has 15 seconds of downtime even at level 4. he's actually more comparable to a tanky storm or NS with a lot more spell damage but cant silence | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 19 2012 07:20 writer22816 wrote: i actually got raped by a barathrum before. we would fuck up in the early game and let him get some kills, and then once he got mom bkb he was unstoppable even in teamfights. he would hit so hard and permabash anyone so it was hard to out carry him. So please enlighten a noob on how to beat this guy? I know he's useless in lane and it should be possible to rape him from the very start. But suppose if you aren't laned against him and the person on your team who is feeds him, then what? carry tp's and get hex if able or force if able. I can't explain to you what i mean with how to lane him because you guys have the notion of pub bara in your head with how he functions. it's just NOT that way. and i can't explain how it's not that way because it's just not it's the way it is.. like trying to explain blue to someone when they know it by red. it just... isn't. Um i'll try though. Haste Charge Bash Charge Haste Ult stout + gauntlet + 2 branch +tango Level 1 sit just inside xp range hidden in trees only coming up for last hits if the lane allows (like tiny/wisp laning allow at lvl 1) your stout+ a tango is more than enough to stand in xp range for level 1. Level 2 sit just inside xp range within tree if against a difficult level two lane (rhasta lanes, ck lanes, ect ect) if they initiate charge to a neutral camp until out of danger then use tangos to heal back level 3-5 if you are above 75+80% then try for a couple last hits (3-4 over a few waves) as charge is off cooldown since charge away will insta bash them and get you out faster than they can walk Level 6 your ganking support heroes should be coming by now and coordinating a gank on the carry/support should be doable. initiate with ulti into disables and end the support disable by stacking level 2 charge on top of it (should be roughly 4-5 seconds of disable total in the gank depending on support, which can be enough with the extra damage done). level 7+ should be pretty easy. passive gold gain and like 10-15 last hits should be enough for phase + drum by a reasonable enough time to make use of them. Every time i've done this i feel more and more confident about making it work in 5v5 cm situations, i see the openings i see the timing and what is needed and it just clicks to me. I've said throughout i don't feel it'll work vs a tri lane (except maybe a enigma/chen tri lane because of how often they farm early instead of show presence) | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On September 19 2012 07:20 writer22816 wrote: i actually got raped by a barathrum before. we would fuck up in the early game and let him get some kills, and then once he got mom bkb he was unstoppable even in teamfights. he would hit so hard and permabash anyone so it was hard to out carry him. So please enlighten a noob on how to beat this guy? I know he's useless in lane and it should be possible to rape him from the very start. But suppose if you aren't laned against him and the person on your team who is feeds him, then what? Usually in pubs, bara palyers tend to charge in when they think they are strong. If bara charges in solo, focus him together(which in pubs, is a challenge by itself). Unless your whole team is low farm, low exp, retarded items, he will go down. The best way is to not walk around alone, but in groups of 2-3 heroes. If you have a supporter like rhasta or crystal maiden, it´s not a bad idea following around carries while they farm. You leech exp, they get gold and are a little safer from ganks. But yeah, in essence, just play better. Bara is entirely single target, so he´s shit in teamfights. If he can take on your whole team alone, then you lost way way before that point and the enemies just don´t push On September 19 2012 07:38 PrinceXizor wrote:Level 1 sit just inside xp range hidden in trees only coming up for last hits if the lane allows (like tiny/wisp laning allow at lvl 1) your stout+ a tango is more than enough to stand in xp range for level 1. Level 2 sit just inside xp range within tree if against a difficult level two lane (rhasta lanes, ck lanes, ect ect) if they initiate charge to a neutral camp until out of danger then use tangos to heal back The problem is, in serious dota you can´t just hide in exp range. Have you seen the international? Heroes like venge, lesch, veno walk all around the lane to make sure no one is hiding. Because there are 5 heroes and bara isn´t able to go jungle. Just by counting the heroes on the map and the fact that no one else of your team is on the lane, they know you should be around the lane somewhere. And even if not, you will be found, because the supporter on the safe lane has nothing else to do than to look for you, because supports don´t need to lasthit on the lane. Can´t hide in the side shop. Can´t hide in the trees towards the jungle. Unless you can win a 1v1 against a range support hero, you will not be in exp range. | ||
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