• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:45
CEST 07:45
KST 14:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension1Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China11
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [Guide] MyStarcraft BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 474 users

[WPC] DK: Winning Ain’t Easy

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
May 08 2014 18:45 GMT
#1

WPC Group Stages


WPC Week 6
DK at 4-4-2

Liquipedia

Focus Mode
Turn off Focus Mode [x]

DK: Winning Ain’t Easy

As we mentioned last week, the sixth week of WPC play would finally be DK's chance to shine. With five matches lined up they had a chance to gain ground against those on top and solidify their chance in the playoffs. It seems fate was not on their side, however, and after splitting matches against Vici Gaming , DT^Club, and TongFu.WanZhou, plus an 0-2 performance against CIS-Game they now find themselves barely above the middle of the pack.

While the situation is far from dire straights, it's possible that with one series left they may miss the post-season - a fact that seems hard to fathom for a team that was nigh unstoppable just a few weeks ago.


Collecting trophies is harder than it looks.

In a recent interview LightOfHeaven said he thinks DK have gotten complacent after their StarLadder victory, and he may be right. Their utter decimation of the LAN was truly a sight to behold, and perhaps it is only natural to become a little complacent after you manhandle the entire Western world with such ease. The Chinese forums will tell you that DK hasn't been practicing as much after StarLadder, and you could argue that they don’t have a reason to go all out just yet.

However, there’s no running from the fact that since StarLadder, DK’s performance has been mediocre, especially for a team of such caliber. They dropped their ESL One qualifier series against DT^Club, and then had a string of losses versus second tier Chinese teams in WPC this week. They seem to be struggling a little to figure out 6.81, and the nerfs to Ember and Lycan seem to be affecting them at least a little.

DK has many strengths, with top notch communication, team fight coordination, game sense, and great farm allocation to cores and supports. By far DK’s greatest strength, however, lies in their incredible individual skill. In fact, when LoH described his dream team in the same interview we cited above, all three carries he chose were from DK. The fact that a player of LoH's caliber chooses every last-hitter in DK for his personal dream team is indeed telling.

It is no secret that DK is perhaps the most individually skilled team in the world, and BurNing, Mushi, and iceiceice (with the help of their stellar supports, of course) can all be trusted to win their respective lanes. This was Mushi’s strength when he led Orange last season, and it is a trait he carried over to DK. BurNing’s farm is that of legend, and of course, and iceiceice can stay alive in the offlane against pretty much any opposition. All of this carries them through the laning stage, and thus DK usually go into the midgame with all their heroes equally farmed and ready to go.

Unfortunately, this is also one of their biggest weaknesses. Problems arise for DK when their lanes don't play out the way they want them to. Times are a-changin', and Chinese teams are quickly figuring out how to counter them. Even second tier Chinese teams like DT^Club and CIS have been discovering in the past few days that the way to defeat DK is to beat them in the laning stage. They’re slowly realizing that perhaps the best way to beat a highly skilled player during the early phases is to stack the odds of the lane against him, and that’s exactly what they did this week in WPC. Let’s look at their games vs CIS.


"DK just falling apart. Did they have too much dinner or something?" - Lysander


Apparently, the bigger they are, the harder they fall pick Sniper, and indeed, doing so in an era in which everyone and their dog gets Blink is pretty much suicide - though that’s for another time. Let's focus instead on Game 2, which is perhaps one of the most extreme examples of an opponent picking a lineup that perfectly counters Faceless Void. BurNing's Void is a Void that looks to farm safely before using Chronosphere to blow up the opposing carry. However, Wraith King cannot be killed in a single Chrono, and a Darkseer is perfect to (safely) mess with a safelane trilane. CIS were clearly focusing on making BurNing ineffective this game, and it worked to a large extent.


CIS would like to remind you that Wraith King is a good hero.


In this game, despite securing a 4:42 Midas (well ahead of the 7 minute average Midas timing on Void), BurNing is harassed by Darkseer and Bounty Hunter, and with some excellent Ion Shell usage, Mini is even able to wipe the lane.

Then, we have a team fight top which quickly evolves into a microcosm of the issues we have discussed.


Dw guys, the cavalry is here!



Die, Wraith King, die… oh wait...



Hmmm... this guy looks squishier!



Oh noes.


Perhaps focusing on a momentary lapse in his usually competent decision making here is us being a little hard on BurNing, but then again, this is the kind of scrutiny that comes your way when you are called the best carry in the world.

Starting with this disastrous teamfight in which all three of DK's cores perish, the game slowly but surely unravels for DK. DK dooes manage to even the score soon, but in many ways the damage has already been done. In the end, despite BurNing's Midas, even Inflame ends up with more networth than the faceless time-bender.

Patch teething issues aside, and Sniper picks notwithstanding, DK’s focus going forward should undoubtedly be looking at how they can play top-tier Dota even when they don’t come out even or ahead in all three of their lanes. In Dota, sometimes winning a game means losing a lane or two and playing from behind, and this is what DK have to learn to do, or at least do better. While they do have time to figure out this aspect of their play, they don't have forever. TI4 is only months away, and it is with a certain sense of urgency that DK fans will watch their team at The Summit LAN finals and in the WPC Playoffs. The DK we saw at StarLadder made winning look easy, but the team we have seen since then has given us a gentle reminder that it is anything but.



CREDITS
Contributors: riptide, kupon3ss, opterown
Editors: riptide, SirJolt, Firebolt145
Images: 2p.com


AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
May 08 2014 18:49 GMT
#2
The fall of DK starts now!
Fwizzz
Profile Joined May 2012
Philippines4420 Posts
May 08 2014 18:59 GMT
#3
I'm guessing they haven't figured out the patch yet. Just like when 6.80 arrived.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
May 08 2014 19:00 GMT
#4
DK are by far my favourite eastern team. I wish DK the best but I also hope they have their sights set on TI and whatever they do, they do it with a thought for the ramifications. If they need a month of low-practice meh-results to be mentally ready to dive in to TI bootcamp and TI proper, then I'm all for that.

OFC, its possible they just got lazy but I aint judging
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44111 Posts
May 08 2014 19:05 GMT
#5
I am in the EG hype train or alliance hype train(since alliance winning the second time around would be awesome and i would just love to see all the haters face that includes me).

To be honest though both teams have the chance to win TI4 but DK most probably win incoming TI4. Even with the recent showing of weakness in WPC. I still think they are the most flexible and scariest team right now.
this is a quote
Oddball28
Profile Joined May 2013
Denmark2121 Posts
May 08 2014 19:24 GMT
#6
Meh, I understand DK, this is all about not running outta steam. You can't go HAM from now to TI4. They will attend the Summit and then go freshly warmed up into TI4. They prolly chillin after Starladder. DK still my top 1 guess for TI4.
LaNm, Iceiceice, Mushi, BurNIng and MMY - DK 2013/2014 - What a ride it was...
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
May 08 2014 19:52 GMT
#7
They will bounce back. #TI4Champs
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Omigawa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1556 Posts
May 08 2014 20:01 GMT
#8
I think if you take a look at their wins and losses since SL9 the majority of their losses came when they either straight up got out-drafted or they experimented with new heroes (mostly Mushi re: Sniper, Slark, etc.)

+ Show Spoiler [Losses since SL9] +
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=644043599
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=642749024
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=642591966
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=640826313
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=639094287
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=630499656


+ Show Spoiler [Wins since SL9] +
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=644101349
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=642446403
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=642339974
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=640682162
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=638973434
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=638578634
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=638461514
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=625249669
http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=625119266


I'm obviously biased, but with that being said I'm really not worried about DK in regards to how their recent performance will affect them going forward. It seems like a lot of experimenting and attempting to stay ahead of the curve more than anything else, and with them already being guaranteed a spot in WPC playoffs along with invites to both TI4 and The Summit they are in a good enough position to drop games now when it doesn't really matter if it will pay off later.

The biggest obstacle DK has at the moment is figuring out the new meta so that they can adjust their drafts; in most of their losses their drafting seems to be the largest factor in why they lost. If they can also come up with a reliable counter to Tiny/Wisp like they did with Lycan at SL9 they will be set, DK is one of the strongest teams in the world using Tiny/Wisp but they are mediocre (pretty sure they have a losing record) playing against it.
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10655 Posts
May 08 2014 20:02 GMT
#9
DK is gonna rek TI4.
Skol
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-08 20:18:29
May 08 2014 20:03 GMT
#10
I think you hit the nail on the head regarding DK's reliance on getting farm among all their players. They are religiously devoted in terms of picking level-dependent supports and they usually spread out the map to play as greedily as possible. Dream Time punished that heavily in the ESL qualifiers with their mass Blink initiations. DK's team fights are usually structured so they maximize damage off chaining spells but DT disrupted the flow by hitting isolated targets and backline fighters.

However, I disagree with your analysis of Game 2 in WPC. Prior to the 3 man wipe in the Radiant safe lane, Bounty Hunter couldn't harass Burning at all and Dark Seer had no effect on DK's trilane setup. What turned that battle in CIS's favor was MMY wasting a single-man Earth Spike behind the enemy T1. I'm guessing he wanted to draw the creep aggro/stun the wave so Burning could get the last hit, but by using the only reliable stun among those three it was the signal for Ayo and June to dive. Even then they could've gotten away with the tower kill. Ayo was only level 2 when the fight started with 1 point in Jinada. If DK had simply walked backwards they probably retain all three heroes. But Lamn's resulting death delayed his level 6, forcing him to rotate to mid; by the time the fight started, he still didn't have Ice Blast. Without the global presence they rely on to make Chronosphere dangerous, they can't fight into a facerush lineup with inferior numbers. DK should have sacked the top tower instead of recklessly trying to counter-initiate. I would chalk that game up to hubris more than good strategy on the side of CIS. The only hero on CIS that directly messes with Void post-level 6 is Puck.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
lantz
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States762 Posts
May 08 2014 20:47 GMT
#11
Overrated!!
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
May 08 2014 21:00 GMT
#12
If they don't shape up, they'll "only" finish something like 4th again in TI4. That's not what B-God stayed for. Only 1st is acceptable! Go big or go home.

+ Show Spoiler +
I know I'm exaggerating.
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
May 08 2014 21:04 GMT
#13
I think DK is just experimenting with some new things. The new patch probably helps as well. It's a lot like C9 sometimes; C9 will try weird shit in group stages, and then go back to tried and true formulas when things get serious. The only difference is that C9 are kings of 2nd place in Western everything, while DK are the best in the world.
DK now knows Sniper isn't good, WK > Void, and, maybe most importantly, they reminded themselves that they can bleed. Just tapering a bit before TI4, no reason to worry about the Dota Kings
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
May 08 2014 21:06 GMT
#14
I find it hilarious that DK could sweep starladder with burning on different heroes every game and in general just very diverse drafts yet every time a new patch comes out they look lost for some reason lol.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-08 23:16:12
May 08 2014 23:14 GMT
#15
Honeymoon period is over? Idk I feel new teams are always really unpredictable, if there are conflicting characters and shit you're never able to tell at first. Or they'll just bounce back to complete domination within a couple of weeks.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-08 23:21:11
May 08 2014 23:20 GMT
#16
Dota is quite a volatile game at times. Great teams like DK tend to be more consistent than the rest, but even they aren't immune to small losing streaks. There's little doubt they'll be on top of their game in short order.
Bora Pain minha porra!
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
May 08 2014 23:32 GMT
#17
Honestly, DK is kind of scaring me at the moment. I do think that they will rally in time for the WPC playoffs and TI4, but that doesn't mean I'm any less nervous for them right now.
AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
ncsix
Profile Joined February 2012
1370 Posts
May 09 2014 01:37 GMT
#18
Relax, they're doing fine. It isn't so much that DK is bad that the competition is pretty good. Some of us would like to think that DK is far above the other teams but it really isn't so, the skill gap between individual professionals are pretty close and all it takes is one bad or good initiation to tip the scales in a team's favour. CIS, DT, VG are all pretty top notch if you look at their other games. That fact + DK experimenting / chilling out after the win @ starladder is reason enough that DK didn't secure clean victories at the WPC and ESL. DK still my favoured team to reach the TI4 finals.

Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6227 Posts
May 09 2014 02:03 GMT
#19
Idk I really think it's just the patch. They got destroyed at the start of 6.80 as well. We're reading a lot into what seems to be a normal part of their cycle.

They'll be back.
HazeB7onU
Profile Joined October 2013
Australia46 Posts
May 09 2014 02:25 GMT
#20
Not sure you can expect a team to be 100% focused after winning a big tournament. Every team does this, you surely can't see them playing sub par after they just got back from an overseas LAN to come back to China and try as hard as they were. Look at even professional sports like the NBA, teams after they win a championship often struggle for motivation the next year during the regular season and then turn it on in the playoffs.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 260
StarCraft: Brood War
Free 509
Leta 253
PianO 250
EffOrt 240
Mind 48
Noble 22
Dewaltoss 12
Bale 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever675
League of Legends
JimRising 836
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K665
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox737
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor75
Other Games
summit1g14967
shahzam771
WinterStarcraft514
ViBE230
NeuroSwarm66
RuFF_SC259
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4496
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH336
• practicex 28
• davetesta27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush2372
• HappyZerGling60
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
5h 15m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
WardiTV European League
1d 10h
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
1d 18h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.