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TL WTF... is this shit?

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EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 18:24 GMT
#1
[image loading]


from: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/thread/275535/0

bm ftw? even though i didnt post that or have had the slight inclination to post in that thread, i'd surely love to know who was the childish retard who thid such an act of immature-ness and "what's mine is mine" baby attitude.

come out of that shell asshole, don't put "teamliquid" at the end.
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
August 07 2008 18:28 GMT
#2
im confused
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
August 07 2008 18:33 GMT
#3
... what?
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6635 Posts
August 07 2008 18:33 GMT
#4
I'm confused yet amused.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 18:34 GMT
#5
It was supposed to be a picture of Midas made by TL, and one of the guys, not a staff member of GG.net, just a simple, random user posted that picture on that thread, and one of the TL staff members edited the Midas picture and wrote that there like same way my little baby sister would do.
If the picture was posted in a GG news i would understand the reason the hobo did that, but since it was in a thread, and posted by some random user, i got mad and decided to post this as an act of public humilliation.
TL makes pictures and w/e yes, but does TL get any profit from them? Doesn't an URL show up when you right click on a picture saying http://TEAMLIQUID.NET/etc/etc? Those pictures are acts of free public service, i'm not paying you to make them, so why go gay over it and demand that no other site uses them?

Retarded.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
August 07 2008 18:36 GMT
#6
EsX_Raptor you are providing the tl.net link to the image, so none of us can see what you're complaining about. It's simply a picture of Midas right now...
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9947 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 18:40:19
August 07 2008 18:38 GMT
#7
On August 08 2008 03:34 EsX_Raptor wrote:
It was supposed to be a picture of Midas made by TL, and one of the guys, not a staff member of GG.net, just a simple, random user posted that picture on that thread, and one of the TL staff members edited the Midas picture and wrote that there like same way my little baby sister would do.
If the picture was posted in a GG news i would understand the reason the hobo did that, but since it was in a thread, and posted by some random user, i got mad and decided to post this as an act of public humilliation.
TL makes pictures and w/e yes, but does TL get any profit from them? Doesn't an URL show up when you right click on a picture saying http://TEAMLIQUID.NET/etc/etc? Those pictures are acts of free public service, i'm not paying you to make them, so why go gay over it and demand that no other site uses them?

Retarded.

youre wrong.

GosuGamers once almost literally transscribed a news post of mani's, even using the same pictures. So now, when you direct link to pictures on TL's server from GosuGamers, they get replace by that paint picture

edit: proof: if you go to the link he provided to GG first, you get to see the paint writings, if you visit this first you get to see the real picture
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 18:40 GMT
#8
It is not a picture of midas dude, explain to me what the hell is this then:

[image loading]


I don't see any midas in there but rather a bm message of shit.
vGl-CoW
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Belgium8305 Posts
August 07 2008 18:41 GMT
#9
hahahaha

besides that,
do you think bandwidth is free
Moderatorfollow me on twitter if u think ur so tough @BooyaCow
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
August 07 2008 18:42 GMT
#10
ah EsX_Raptor now you actually saved the image yourself and hosted it yourself so people can see. Your original post didn't make any sense
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
August 07 2008 18:43 GMT
#11
On August 08 2008 03:41 vGl-CoW wrote:
hahahaha

besides that,
do you think bandwidth is free


free speech, free photos for all lARGUGHHHH
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 18:47:08
August 07 2008 18:45 GMT
#12
On August 08 2008 03:38 RaGe wrote:
GosuGamers once ...

I'm not talking about the "once" here man, im talking about the fucking now and why the hell did they do that to that picture on that post by that random user?

If you want to avoid those problems go ahead and start watermarking your pictures, i have no problem with that and i dont care or give a slight fuck, but don't do such acts of mental retardedness and display them to the entire public please, this just simply lowers the impression TL gives and im all the way back down here in the forgotten Venezuela.

EDIT: ROFL, that means you arent willing to host the pictures in your own TL.net because it's too expensive?
I wonder what does ToT or other people say about others LINKING their pictures on other sites x'DDDDDDD
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
August 07 2008 18:45 GMT
#13
lol. I think that's pretty funny. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to webpages but isn't it possible just to disable direct linking?
ph33r
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada58 Posts
August 07 2008 18:47 GMT
#14
Maybe you should look at the image url
"http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/ShinHanOSLwk8/game1midasface.jpg"

The poster on GG.net is hotlinking.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
August 07 2008 18:48 GMT
#15
On August 08 2008 03:45 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2008 03:38 RaGe wrote:
GosuGamers once ...

I'm not talking about the "once" here man, im talking about the fucking now and why the hell did they do that to that picture on that post by that random user?

If you want to avoid those problems go ahead and start watermarking your pictures, i have no problem with that and i dont care or give a slight fuck, but don't do such acts of mental retardedness and display them to the entire public please, this just simply lowers the impression TL gives and im all the way back down here in the forgotten Venezuela.


That's a city in Mexico, right??


What the hell are you pissed about? Swiping pictures and sucking bandwith is lame, and GG always does it.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
dyodyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Philippines578 Posts
August 07 2008 18:48 GMT
#16
*sigh*

As vGI-CoW has said, bandwidth isn't free and this is not an image hosting site.

How did you know that that was done intentionally and not by a "server rule" that redirects hot-linked images to that "paint picture"?
TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #26
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 18:51 GMT
#17
Hawk, dude, please read again the quote you have on that post and read again why am I pissed. I'll give you a clue: "...this just simply lowers the impression TL gives..."

dyodyo, please man use your brain not your keyboard: I'm sure a bot didn't decide one day to open up MS Paint and write that itself.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
August 07 2008 18:53 GMT
#18
This is great, that's what it is.

Fuck off and stop linking our content.
Moderator
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 18:55 GMT
#19
Dude, wtf? I don't even think you're talking to the right person here, I'm just another random user here ROFL XDDD

Looks like you're talking to your computer monitor and the wall behind it.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 18:56:59
August 07 2008 18:56 GMT
#20
I'm talking to people who steal our content.

As for you, you have no idea what you're talking about and have no understanding of the situation. We understand your concern for TL looking professional, but it was outweighed by the annoyance of GG.net being oblivious to our requests. In the end, protecting our content won out over upholding absolute professionalism.
Moderator
SpiralArchitect
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2116 Posts
August 07 2008 18:57 GMT
#21
Uh...

That is like MS Paint?

If this was like some yubee stuff or another sick banner it would be big deal, but cmon dude its some writing in MS Paint?

W/e i dont have to stamina to care.
TeamLiquids #1 illiterate writer, writin dem wordz is de hardz.
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
August 07 2008 18:59 GMT
#22
You do realize there might be a (long) story behind this you don't know? We've always had problems with GG.net stealing our content, posting our news as though it was theirs. Not letting them hotlink's one way to keep that problem under control.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
August 07 2008 19:00 GMT
#23
So clueless. =/
Administrator
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:01:42
August 07 2008 19:00 GMT
#24
You can't really argue or tell people how to run their website.
They are paying for it, and they decide what should be done.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:03:10
August 07 2008 19:02 GMT
#25
Ugh why must everything go on and on... Here's the timeline:

- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- GG.net copy / pastes everything we write and doesn't source anything.
- We tell them to stop.
- They stop for a few days.
- We get fed up.
- We discuss possible solutions in MiR, eventually deciding we will not allow hotlinking from gosugamers.net.
- Fakesteve makes a sample banner.
- We decide it's hillarious and actually decide to use it.
- GG.net sees it a few times and now cites their sources properly.
- Everyone is happy.
- Random GG.net user links to a TL image.
- TL poster oblivious to everything I just wrote up there takes offense to it and makes this blog.
Moderator
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:02:48
August 07 2008 19:02 GMT
#26
On August 08 2008 04:00 SCC-Faust wrote:
You can't really argue or tell people how to run their website.
They are paying for it, and they decide what should be done.


Being in charge doesn't mean you're immune to criticism.

Though that doesn't stop him from being completely wrong.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 19:03 GMT
#27
it might be true, i dont have complete understanding of the situation, but i do know what i see and im sure that which i see is what everyone else who doesn't "understand the situation" sees, which is roughly about 99.99% of the people who visit this site and gg.net.

Just watermark your pictures from now on and learn from your mistakes, in the end, we're all humans and thus not perfect.

But remember that Manners > All, I imagine what a football team would do to someone who stole their property, stuff, etc if they didn't act professionally, or what the National Destructive Weapons Association would do.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:05:40
August 07 2008 19:05 GMT
#28
On August 08 2008 04:03 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Just watermark your pictures from now on and learn from your mistakes, in the end, we're all humans and thus not perfect.

But remember that Manners > All, I imagine what a football team would do to someone who stole their property, stuff, etc if they didn't act professionally, or what the National Destructive Weapons Association would do.


Thank you for your feedback. In the end we have decided to move forward in another direction. Although you seem very strong-willed about your suggestion, we unfortunately do not agree with your conclusions and thus must take other actions.

Again, thank you for your concerns on this matter.
Moderator
pubbanana
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3063 Posts
August 07 2008 19:06 GMT
#29
I think you should just get over it, really.
Wachet, stehet im Glauben, seid männlich und seid stark.
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
August 07 2008 19:08 GMT
#30
What's going on in dis thread guyz??

Certainly no image stealing, thats for sure.

(never steals pictures)
Chains none
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
August 07 2008 19:10 GMT
#31
All you need to do is save the picture and upload it to imageshack. Holy crap.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Mooga
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States575 Posts
August 07 2008 19:11 GMT
#32
OMG, you had a chance to GOATSE GG.net and you wasted it...
Stealthunter
Profile Joined December 2007
Canada1 Post
August 07 2008 19:12 GMT
#33
According to me ( and it's REALLY obvious ), this thread doesn'T exist for the right thing. This thread should be about waht Midas look like on this pic. GG.net isn't the one that posted that pic. If you really wanted to protect your content, the coder of this website could have done it and they know how, simple and easy. You are right, we don't have to steal your content, but if you really look at the news on gg.net, you will see there is less content FROM teamliquid.net, for news or gosubet.
So to come back to the beginning, gg.net isn't responsible for the behavior of the users. If we see fit to nuke a comment, we do it, that's it, that's all.
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 19:13 GMT
#34
i thank you too for understanding my views. whichever way you guys want to go to address this issue is totally fine with me, not a problem. its just that i take sc and everything related to it too much by heart (exrtremely) and it saddens me seeing such actions because i then start thinking "sc is then, just another little game" and my view of it: a bad-ass professional, mannered sport, gets totally anihilated.

that's it, thx again
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
August 07 2008 19:14 GMT
#35
can you please quote the context of where your anger and sentiment comes from!
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
August 07 2008 19:14 GMT
#36
On August 08 2008 04:12 Stealthunter wrote:
According to me ( and it's REALLY obvious ), this thread doesn'T exist for the right thing. This thread should be about waht Midas look like on this pic. GG.net isn't the one that posted that pic. If you really wanted to protect your content, the coder of this website could have done it and they know how, simple and easy. You are right, we don't have to steal your content, but if you really look at the news on gg.net, you will see there is less content FROM teamliquid.net, for news or gosubet.
So to come back to the beginning, gg.net isn't responsible for the behavior of the users. If we see fit to nuke a comment, we do it, that's it, that's all.


The irony in this name/thread is funny
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
nortydog
Profile Joined December 2003
Australia3067 Posts
August 07 2008 19:17 GMT
#37
this should be the image
[image loading]
NoCleanFeed.com
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
August 07 2008 19:17 GMT
#38
On August 08 2008 04:12 Stealthunter wrote:
According to me ( and it's REALLY obvious ), this thread doesn'T exist for the right thing. This thread should be about waht Midas look like on this pic. GG.net isn't the one that posted that pic. If you really wanted to protect your content, the coder of this website could have done it and they know how, simple and easy. You are right, we don't have to steal your content, but if you really look at the news on gg.net, you will see there is less content FROM teamliquid.net, for news or gosubet.
So to come back to the beginning, gg.net isn't responsible for the behavior of the users. If we see fit to nuke a comment, we do it, that's it, that's all.


He's asking why that image exists and is in use. I told him. It's because GG.net used to steal our news and images and were dodgy when we called them on it. We got fed up. That has nothing to do with how GG.net operates now.
Moderator
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
August 07 2008 19:17 GMT
#39
On August 08 2008 04:13 EsX_Raptor wrote:
i thank you too for understanding my views. whichever way you guys want to go to address this issue is totally fine with me, not a problem. its just that i take sc and everything related to it too much by heart (exrtremely) and it saddens me seeing such actions because i then start thinking "sc is then, just another little game" and my view of it: a bad-ass professional, mannered sport, gets totally anihilated.

that's it, thx again


huh?
"issue"?
where?
gtfo
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
August 07 2008 19:19 GMT
#40
[image loading]

Poll: petition to gallery this blog
(Vote): yes
(Vote): no

"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 07 2008 19:20 GMT
#41
Lots of sites have far worse images to discourage hotlinking from their sites pictures.

As people have said bandwidth is not free; why wouldn't you (or them) just link to their article?

If people are too lazy to do that, they get what they deserve (and it could be farrrrrrr worse).
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:22:57
August 07 2008 19:22 GMT
#42
that comment wasnt directed to you anderoo, it was directed to chill, thus you don't, and won't get its true meaning unless you take your time to actually READ the blog.

chill answered my questions, i don't have anything else to say.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:30:27
August 07 2008 19:28 GMT
#43
i dont think you got this but multiple people have stated this

there's code that makes the image appear as that mspaint writing if its loaded in gosugamers.net

for people who went to this blog before they went to that gosugamers.net page, the image loads normally, it hadn't been changed manually. and after that image is in their cache, it'll appear normally even on the gosugamers page.

the converse is also true. if someone goes to the gosugamer page and sees that no-hotlinking paint image, it'll save in their cache as that image and if they view it in tl.net, as you did, it'll still appear as the paint image. don't believe me? clear your cache, refresh this page, then go to the gosugamers page.

the mspaint was never switched in to personally humiliate that one user, but its a cover-all anti hotlinking code against gosugamers.net in general. it's an easier solution than watermarking because the code only has to be written in once instead of like a watermark placed on every single image captured by tl.net

that is all
posting on liquid sites in current year
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 19:31 GMT
#44
yeah i got that when dyodyo made his comment on page 1.
thx
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
August 07 2008 19:33 GMT
#45
On August 08 2008 03:51 EsX_Raptor wrote:
dyodyo, please man use your brain not your keyboard: I'm sure a bot didn't decide one day to open up MS Paint and write that itself.

this didnt make it look like you understood

anyway im done

have fun
posting on liquid sites in current year
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:37:58
August 07 2008 19:35 GMT
#46
lol, he seriously makes the title "TL WTF ... is this shit?" then expects no retribution from the site e's trying to mock ; when apparently he's only trying to address the mods

that comment wasnt directed to you anderoo, it was directed to chill, thus you don't, and won't get its true meaning unless you take your time to actually READ the blog.

...lack of knowing PM system... doesn't lack the "BM" ;of course; while trying to portray someone else as BM

and even when all his questions are allegedly answered
he's still in the blog, reading every comment (because he's got nothing left to say of course )
and making snide remarks (when he has nothing else to say =/)
makes me think he does have something to say

for example,


that's it, thx again





i don't have anything else to say.


either way the sooner this thing gets closed/ galleried; the better
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:37:40
August 07 2008 19:37 GMT
#47
[13:36] Ben: and i'd rather have our content on our servers than get rehosted on imageshack
[13:37] Blake: yea id take it down
[13:37] Blake: imo

Hooray your lobbying has worked it seems!
Moderator
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
August 07 2008 19:38 GMT
#48
i have nothing else to say about the issue, but not about the ignorance of others.

and yes i made a mistake, i shouldve taken this on pm, that way everyone here including you wouldve never answered my blog or even known that i exist, not something worthy imo.
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
August 07 2008 19:41 GMT
#49
On August 08 2008 04:37 Chill wrote:
[13:36] Ben: and i'd rather have our content on our servers than get rehosted on imageshack
[13:37] Blake: yea id take it down
[13:37] Blake: imo

Hooray your lobbying has worked it seems!

Haha yeah, in the most indirect way possible.
Administrator
Lord_of_Chaos
Profile Joined June 2007
Sweden372 Posts
August 07 2008 19:41 GMT
#50
Yes, please close this now.

I think this will go in no other way than to just piss of each side or humiliate anyone further.

Yes, some editors took up on the habit of copying pics from TL.net, TL.net made fun of us over that. Not a professional way imo, but we were at fault from the start so we can't really argue about it.

Unfortunately it affected a random gg.net user, but that is more funny and stupid for tl.net than anything else. No need to keep fighting over it.
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 19:46:46
August 07 2008 19:42 GMT
#51

that way everyone here including you wouldve never answered my blog or even known that i exist, not something worthy imo.

sarcasm doesn't transfer over internet im afraid (forgive me if i assume the same condescending manner of speech as portrayed in the title/OP/ and nearly every post made in this blog) ; i'll give you the benefit of the doubt in any case
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
August 07 2008 19:43 GMT
#52
On August 08 2008 04:41 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
Yes, please close this now.

"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
August 07 2008 19:54 GMT
#53
On August 08 2008 04:22 EsX_Raptor wrote:
that comment wasnt directed to you anderoo, it was directed to chill, thus you don't, and won't get its true meaning unless you take your time to actually READ the blog.

chill answered my questions, i don't have anything else to say.


Before this gets closed, I did read the thread. An "issue" is another way of saying "problem" in which if this blog was never created no one here would have a problem. Which means to me it's your problem, and no one else's so by "gtfo" I meant stop making your problems everybody else's

In other news: gg.net blows.
Suck it
DeadVessel
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States6269 Posts
August 07 2008 23:22 GMT
#54
How did I miss this? LOL
semioldguy
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States7488 Posts
August 08 2008 07:28 GMT
#55
I'd guess you missed it because it was a blog
Moderator
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
August 09 2008 07:46 GMT
#56
Yeah. Can I still ban him even though it's a blog? He's totally incoherent and argues like a kid. Meh.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
August 13 2008 18:36 GMT
#57
On August 09 2008 16:46 Klogon wrote:
Yeah. Can I still ban him even though it's a blog? He's totally incoherent and argues like a kid. Meh.


I was tempted too, if it makes you feel any better... but I think this one is done.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
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