EPTGamergate and video game journalism - Page 7
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Please don't go calling people racist, misogynists, or any combination therein. Don't start throwing around words like "white Knight" or SJW, these words are at this point used in a derogatory manner regarding this debate. You can discuss that these terms exist, but do not attribute them to any individual user or group of users on this website. Try to have a serious discussion about the topic at hand without resorting to personal attacks and we will all be the better for it. Breaking this rule will result in an automatic temp ban the length of which will depend on the comment you make. This thread started not so bad. It is getting worse. If you want to have this discussion on TL be respectful of your fellow users, we all live in the same house. Effective now: Page 21 October 18th 08:31 KST | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-24-lost-humanity-18-a-table-of-doritos Funny how the movement is all about the "ethics of gaming journalism" but the issue of the massive controlling corporate influence and the cultivation of this "Mountain Dew and Doritos" strawman identity by the hand of the companies - which is, in fact, the identity that the "death of the gamer" articles were saying was dead - isn't even touched on by #GG. It's all about Kotaku and indie developers. Because man, those indie developers really do control the industry, don't they? This has been my one and only opinion on the entire fiasco. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10167 Posts
On October 16 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote: Ever seen the twitch chat of a huge Esports event when a woman enters the stage? I mean okay it's the Twitch chat so the bar is already lowered by a few magnitudes but it is just disgusting. Also take a look through the downvoted comments on the Starcraft subreddit when a Scarlett post comes up. Sexism in gaming and on the internet in general is just completely out of control. Twitch and reddit. People who just spam meme's and try to be funny by not being funny at all ? This is no indication of "gaming", but internet communities and the speed and volume of "communication" they move indicating than the more text and the faster it gets on, the worse it gets. A 30 person stream can have a decent chat. A 5.000 person stream is just trash. You can find that trash in any subreddit, it doesn't need to be only about gaming by the way. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
I do this because, there is 0 trust in the gaming industry as a whole (from content creators to reviewers to even let's players that get paid...). As such, I buy very few games because I don't end up buying into any hype for any game. Example, Dragon Age 3 I think will be great. I will still wait 2-3 weeks after it's out to read about bugs, issues with the game ,etc before I make any decision. I was there for the Zoe Quinn blow up. The only thing I got from it is that she's a terrible person that I really, really dislike; and that way too many moderators from different websites (reddit, 4chan, kotaku, etc etc) have links to her. I wish I could run a campaign banning any discussion about my wrongdoings across the internet's biggest forums just by fucking a few thirsty losers. But as awful a person as she is (especially the fake victimization on some forums to get attention and the crazy amount of people she cheated on her bf with), shit doesn't bother me. She can go rot in a hole and I'll keep doing things the way I have : make intelligent purchases. All this Gamergate thing shows, is that people that aren't getting laid will do a lot of things to get laid. *Edit : Oh and as far as the hate on Zoe being sexism... don't even try. She's a downright awful person no matter which way you look at it. Some people just have to stop being blinded and defending awful people just because they're women. Women are capable of just as much wrongdoing as men. It's not sexism to hate a PERSON. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On October 16 2014 00:15 lichter wrote: i don't feel affected by any of this or by game journalism trends in general is it because i'm not important enough the only games i play or buy are either because: my friends play it or it was a steam sale. Gaming journalism seems like a rather irrelevant topic given the events happening around the world right now. | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
Some people just have to stop being a SJW and defending awful people just because they're women. As soon as you start throwing around pejorative labels, you can hear the intelligence of a forum debate rushing down the drain. Please refrain from using these labels on TL. SJW has become a completely meaningless term, analogous to Obamabots and Paultards in political 'debates.' | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:19 Falling wrote: As soon as you start throwing around pejorative labels, you can hear the the intelligence of a forum debate rushing down the drain. Please refrain from using these labels on TL. SJW has become a completely meaningless term, analogous to Obamabots and Paultards in political 'debates.' Fair enough but it's just sad to see people blindly defend any woman on the internet, deservedly or not. Some people are just bad people and don't deserve to get defended. | ||
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Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:22 Kurr wrote: Fair enough but it's just sad to see people blindly defend any woman on the internet, deservedly or not. Some people are just bad people and don't deserve to get defended. She might have blind defenders on Kotaku, but from my experience on Escapist, people are not so much FOR Zoe so much as against the giant Zoe dog-pile. | ||
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YumYumGranola
Canada346 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:22 Kurr wrote: Fair enough but it's just sad to see people blindly defend any woman on the internet, deservedly or not. Some people are just bad people and don't deserve to get defended. Plenty of women take flak on the Internet, including from feminists. Don't believe me? Stop by Jezebel on any particular day and spend 5 minutes browsing headlines, you're guaranteed to find something. What makes it sexism isn't that a woman is being attacked, it's how viciously she's being attacked for something which she was only alleged to do (there is a certain irony in a movement about promotion journalistic integrity who's complaints are largely based on the allegations of a jilted ex-bf). And then of course what also makes it sexist is that it's assumed that even if she did have these other relationships, that they were expressly for promoting her career, despite there not even being a clear link to what exactly she obtained by her alleged actions. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On October 16 2014 04:48 Nyxisto wrote: Ever seen the twitch chat of a huge Esports event when a woman enters the stage? I mean okay it's the Twitch chat so the bar is already lowered by a few magnitudes but it is just disgusting. Also take a look through the downvoted comments on the Starcraft subreddit when a Scarlett post comes up. Sexism in gaming and on the internet in general is just completely out of control. Using Twitch chat as an indication of...anything is silly at best. And besides, if the reddit posts end up downvoted, then what's the problem? Downvotes mean that the majority don't share that posters opinion. It's unreasonable to attack a community over the actions of a couple haters, especially when said community is already vocally disapproving of said haters. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:59 Spawkuring wrote: Using Twitch chat as an indication of...anything is silly at best. And besides, if the reddit posts end up downvoted, then what's the problem? Downvotes mean that the majority don't share that posters opinion. It's unreasonable to attack a community over the actions of a couple haters, especially when said community is already vocally disapproving of said haters. It is not really about any one of these things in isolation, but about the whole picture. All these verbal attacks may seem ridiculous if you look at them in isolation, but the amount of trash talk that women (or a lot of other "minorities" for that matter) have to take in these communities is staggering. This simply doesn't happen a lot outside of these specific internet communities. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:03 Nyxisto wrote: It is not really about any one of these things in isolation, but about the whole picture. All these verbal attacks may seem ridiculous if you look at them in isolation, but the amount of trash talk that women (or a lot of other "minorities" for that matter) have to take in these communities is staggering. This simply doesn't happen a lot outside of these specific internet communities. I wouldn't blame a specific internet community for that however. You can find utterly unreal levels of harassment for any celebrity or semi-famous person who for whatever reason has said or done something political or shocking or whatever. It's a valid issue, don't get me wrong. But I disagree with assertions that act like this is a video game issue rather than an asshole issue. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:03 Nyxisto wrote: It is not really about any one of these things in isolation, but about the whole picture. All these verbal attacks may seem ridiculous if you look at them in isolation, but the amount of trash talk that women (or a lot of other "minorities" for that matter) have to take in these communities is staggering. This simply doesn't happen a lot outside of these specific internet communities. Have you seen the amount of trashtalk a white heterosexual male receives on tumblr? The internet is filled with cesspools - it is really just a question of where you are in the minority whether it will look like a nice spa or a cesspool. The internet gave everyone a voice, sadly the most vocal people don't have anything productive to say and have too much time; hence we end up with what we have today. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:03 Nyxisto wrote: It is not really about any one of these things in isolation, but about the whole picture. All these verbal attacks may seem ridiculous if you look at them in isolation, but the amount of trash talk that women (or a lot of other "minorities" for that matter) have to take in these communities is staggering. This simply doesn't happen a lot outside of these specific internet communities. Internet trolls jump on the easiest insults that provide the greatest reaction. And as long as racism and sexism are talking points, it's not very surprising that racist and sexist comments will garner the most attention. Case in point, if you can get dozens of websites and writers in an uproar about "misogyny in gaming", why would you ever start using less effective insults? | ||
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zzdd
United States484 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:38 YumYumGranola wrote: Plenty of women take flak on the Internet, including from feminists. Don't believe me? Stop by Jezebel on any particular day and spend 5 minutes browsing headlines, you're guaranteed to find something. What makes it sexism isn't that a woman is being attacked, it's how viciously she's being attacked for something which she was only alleged to do (there is a certain irony in a movement about promotion journalistic integrity who's complaints are largely based on the allegations of a jilted ex-bf). And then of course what also makes it sexist is that it's assumed that even if she did have these other relationships, that they were expressly for promoting her career, despite there not even being a clear link to what exactly she obtained by her alleged actions. She's admitted to having sex with the people her ex said she did. Also even if sex was not used as a bribe for favorable reviews, the reviewer and Zoe are friends. Clearly a conflict of interest any way you look at it. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
There are insult towards COD players, towards any color except white (maybe), towards every other countries, etc. It's the internet, and it's also part of the fun to insult everyone - like you didn't do it when you were playing SC BW and insulting everything and everybody in chat. The problem is that this culture - which is a young culture, mainly masculine and not very refined in facade (the deepness is not what meets the eye at first glance) - is facing another culture, the newly found "geek" culture, "bourgeois", boring as fuck and feminist in facade - because everybody needs some good arguments to get laid (boys and girls). Now it's the "affair", when some random girl, who says she is feminist but in fact is moved by her own interest (and her vagina) like every other guy, is publicly revealed to be what she truly is in private. And I'll add that there is a class racism, from those feminist girls, who gain their life doing god knows what, and who constantly judge the gaming community without knowing or understanding. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
if there is one thing to say about it: dont judge without actually looking up what happened and where this came from. else whatever you think or write about this topic will be pointless. lots of interesting stuff was dug out and some people have shown their true faces. if you are bored,havent heared of this before and enjoy internet drama then damn grab your popcorn. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
I should know by now that news with the "-gate" suffix are usually completely overblown dramas that I would expect 50yo moms to discuss at the hairdresser... | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:11 Spawkuring wrote: I wouldn't blame a specific internet community for that however. You can find utterly unreal levels of harassment for any celebrity or semi-famous person who for whatever reason has said or done something political or shocking or whatever. It's a valid issue, don't get me wrong. But I disagree with assertions that act like this is a video game issue rather than an asshole issue. It is a videogame issue in that our beloved hobby sadly attracts a disproportionate amount of real life losers who don't know how to deal with females (they don't know how to deal with other males either). And outside of heavily moderated sites such as TL, the industry and community is generally very permissive about such misanthropic behavior. Even as the average age of gamers steadily goes up, videogame makers still target the young teenage male demographic disproportionately and Internet communities revolving around videogames are still designed to cater to that demographic above all else. People compare this to movies, music and other entertainment industries. Sorry, but this community is just very slow to clean up. There's more of an effort in the sports, comic book and other entertainment industries to clean up their communities. It's really sad. Nobody is going to be perfect but that's not an excuse to be behind the curve. I don't trust gaming journalism. Compare their reviews to movie reviews. AAA games get more favorable reviews than AAA movies. But this seems to be more of an excuse for certain people to act out their misogynistic views than a proper criticism of gaming journalism. | ||
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