EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9541
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 16 2017 06:33 mozoku wrote: Not sure how this is a departure from my posting history. Both parties are primarily political opportunists and well-established liars. Without knowing anything about the state of the House Intelligence Committee investigation, there's no way to figure out whether Adam Schiff is raising a valid concern or merely doing some political positioning. He's particularly distinguished himself in documents subpoena'd by Nunes's committee and on news programs on both the Steele dossier and unmasking probes. The default should be expecting political opportunism for Nunes, Schiff, Conaway and the rest. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
It really looks like they have it. It looked like a ridiculously done deal on the original senate passage, but I've started to hedge because of Trump's influence and 2016/2017 out-of-the-blue insanities. | ||
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
On December 16 2017 07:20 Adreme wrote: Well lets see, the criminal investigation is already yielding charges and does not appear to be wrapping up soon so there is clearly something there so I am more willing to believe that if it ends on the congressional front its because they want to bury it rather than there being nothing there because actual prosecutors are finding things there. I would accept the explanation if they shut down that they are turning over all evidence to the special counsel and leaving the investigation in his hands which would make sense. The investigations have different scopes. They aren't the same damn investigation. The fact that Mueller has found things in his and is still investigating doesn't really indicate whether the House investigation still has more paths to go down on its part. Not to mention, you don't know what the House investigation has already found. To be honest, the argument "well Mueller isn't done yet so therefore the House shouldn't be finished" is an all-around terrible argument. Independent teams of investigators can reasonably find different stopping points depending on their judgment. You can never prove a negative, so the decision to stop is always going to be one based on judgment. Again, I never said I had faith in the GOP to necessarily conduct a thorough investigation. I simply find no reason to believe them noticeably less trustworthy than Adam Schiff. Actually, I'm really interested in this topic now that it's come up: do you guys actually believe the Democrats are boyscouts that are working with the country's best interest at heart? Or are they merely better than the Republicans? What are your guys' honest opinion of Democratic politicians? | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
On December 16 2017 07:59 Plansix wrote: I look forward to all our public services being cut and lurchingalong like Kentucky, bankrupt and unable to provide basic needs for its citizens. That seems like an odd thing to look forward to really. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 16 2017 08:01 Sermokala wrote: That seems like an odd thing to look forward to really. We have to touch the stove. Back in 2007-2008 the democrats won on the back of Obama and Republican backlash. They did all the grown up stuff, managed the war, managed TARP and got our money back, regulated the banks. They got us back on the right track. And then the Republicans ran against the bail out(they caused and voted for). The railed against automakers being bailed out. Railed against the ACA. And they won. They mocked governance and made bank doing it. They just need to get their way and run this county into the dirt to people can learn not to believe their bullshit. 2007 didn't leave enough scars. And I'm also being sarcastic. | ||
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Howie_Dewitt
United States1416 Posts
On December 16 2017 07:57 mozoku wrote: The investigations have different scopes. They aren't the same damn investigation. The fact that Mueller has found things in his and is still investigating doesn't really indicate whether the House investigation still has more paths to go down on its part. Not to mention, you don't know what the House investigation has already found. To be honest, the argument "well Mueller isn't done yet so therefore the House shouldn't be finished" is an all-around terrible argument. Different teams of investigators can reasonably find two different stopping points. Again, I never said I had faith in the GOP to necessarily conduct a thorough investigation. I simply find no reason to believe them any less trustworthy than Adam Schiff. Actually, I'm really interested in this topic now that it's come up: do you guys actually believe the Democrats are boyscouts that are working with the country's best interest at heart? What are your guys' honest opinion of Democratic politicians? I believe them to be scum in the same way as their adversaries, but scum that hide behind a set of policies that I believe will improve the quality of life for the average person more than the GOP's amalgamation of garbage. They're better at hiding their donors' influences and allowing more social freedom (something I generally support), but much worse at winning elections and doing the core part of their job that is appealing their ideas to people. Additionally, because I am still very young comparatively and do not fully understand how people can support things that I cannot, I do not believe the republicans to be evil. I just believe their way of bending over backwards to donors is more harmful to the country than how the democrats do it. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On December 16 2017 08:09 Plansix wrote: We have to touch the stove. Back in 2007-2008 the democrats won on the back of Obama and Republican backlash. They did all the grown up stuff, managed the war, managed TARP and got our money back, regulated the banks. They got us back on the right track. And then the Republicans ran against the bail out(they caused and voted for). The railed against automakers being bailed out. Railed against the ACA. And they won. They mocked governance and made bank doing it. They just need to get their way and run this county into the dirt to people can learn not to believe their bullshit. 2007 didn't leave enough scars. And I'm also being sarcastic. That is very much the takeaway I'm getting from this administration. If there's something that's popular, if there's something that makes good fiscal and/or social sense, if there's something that 75/80% of ALL Americans can agree on, if there's a way to get ourselves back on track to being a civilized nation like the rest of the Western hemisphere, Republicans have proven, time and time again, they will do the exact opposite. And now that Trump has festooned the White House with his ridiculous and infantile brand of populism, Republicans are rallying behind him twice as hard, pushing one policy after another that satisfies their donors, at the expense of the average working American. Even if the populace does catch on, it's taken a depressingly long time for them to figure it out. I'm not holding my breath. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 16 2017 08:24 Sermokala wrote: Also I'm being super obviously sarcastic? 2017 is the year we can't be funny any more. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
I think we've hit peak 2017 | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22695 Posts
On December 16 2017 08:09 Plansix wrote: We have to touch the stove. Back in 2007-2008 the democrats won on the back of Obama and Republican backlash. They did all the grown up stuff, managed the war, managed TARP and got our money back, regulated the banks. They got us back on the right track. And then the Republicans ran against the bail out(they caused and voted for). The railed against automakers being bailed out. Railed against the ACA. And they won. They mocked governance and made bank doing it. They just need to get their way and run this county into the dirt to people can learn not to believe their bullshit. 2007 didn't leave enough scars. And I'm also being sarcastic. You know the worst thing? After Trump and 8 years of Democrats doing 'the right thing' they will go right back to voting for a Republican who undoes it all in the name of MAGA (or its 11y future equivalent). 1 step forward, 1 step back never going anywhere. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 16 2017 07:59 Plansix wrote: I look forward to all our public services being cut and lurchingalong like Kentucky, bankrupt and unable to provide basic needs for its citizens. This is Trump. His voting base likes entitlement spending. Come out of your depression and realize the US Fed isn't like Illinois & New Jersey. Things move slow and social services are pretty static. | ||
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
On December 16 2017 08:10 Howie_Dewitt wrote: I believe them to be scum in the same way as their adversaries, but scum that hide behind a set of policies that I believe will improve the quality of life for the average person more than the GOP's amalgamation of garbage. They're better at hiding their donors' influences and allowing more social freedom (something I generally support), but much worse at winning elections and doing the core part of their job that is appealing their ideas to people. Additionally, because I am still very young comparatively and do not fully understand how people can support things that I cannot, I do not believe the republicans to be evil. I just believe their way of bending over backwards to donors is more harmful to the country than how the democrats do it. This is actually a reasonable take imo. I would say I agree in principle with quite a bit of it, though I disagree on some of the details. It's a shame nobody else gave this one a go. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On December 16 2017 09:24 mozoku wrote: This is actually a reasonable take imo. I would say I agree in principle with quite a bit of it, though I disagree on some of the details. It's a shame nobody else gave this one a go. I suppose that is a fair question worth responding to; mine is fairly close to dewitt; i'd call the republicans evil, and probably a lot of the dems too; I have high standards. | ||
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