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On February 03 2017 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:06 Scarecrow wrote:On February 03 2017 00:46 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 03 2017 00:44 tedster wrote:
I had friends at the protests who confirm the above few posts. The anarchists appeared to be mostly outsiders looking to riot and had little to do with the peaceful protesters. It sucks that this is going to be warped to cast a bad light on any sort of protest, but that is what people in power who don't want to see their power threatened do. Either way Milo wins - he gets to demonize someone and come out smelling like roses.
Milo is going to cause violence anywhere he is allowed to speak, one way or another. That's his entire goal and he's very, very good at getting what he wants, because he doesn't care who gets caught in the crossfire. I'm not sure how to stop something like that as long as he's allowed to encourage violence toward individuals through public shaming, doxxing, and social violence, because the only thing that seems to stop him has been an anarchist riot, which isn't good either. Ugh. i mean the whole point milo and his supporters are trying to prove is that the amount of people trying to "stop" him from speaking already demonstrates cultural weakness that should be re-evaluated/eliminated its troubling that you still seem to think its desirable to "stop" him from simply speaking The more troubling thing I find is there's a post-KKK group that love listening to him and the protests he keeps sparking are giving him more exposure and followers. He incites hatred on both sides of politics towards either himself or others. I recently sat down and watched one of his talks... He's eloquent, calm and is a master at handling the hecklers he baits out. The problem is he's literally just playing on the prejudices of ignorant bigots and spreading a heavily biased narrative. The comment section was full of how they loved how he spoke 'facts'/'truth' when he was blatantly exaggerating/lying and they were eating it up because it aligned with their hatred of muslims. He really just needs to be ignored completely and let the crazies go listen to him if they want. His ex-boss Bannon is the real problem. all narratives are heavily biased i have issues with the alt right but your apparent approach of discrediting them out of hand and claiming ignoring them is the solution is not one i find productive
it seems excessive to say all narratives are heavily biased. I would disagree, I would say some narratives are only moderately biased. but you tend to hear about the excessively biased ones more.
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On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant.
It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter?
I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great.
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On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great.
Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect?
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On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great.
It's worth noting he was invited by the students who presumably followed some established set of rules and criteria that formalize the process of inviting someone.
It's not like the university thought he had something of merit to say, an organization of students at the university did.
xDaut is right you left out the Doxxing and harassment part of his messages :D.
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On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect?
I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other sexually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo.
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On February 03 2017 02:09 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:06 Scarecrow wrote:On February 03 2017 00:46 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 03 2017 00:44 tedster wrote:
I had friends at the protests who confirm the above few posts. The anarchists appeared to be mostly outsiders looking to riot and had little to do with the peaceful protesters. It sucks that this is going to be warped to cast a bad light on any sort of protest, but that is what people in power who don't want to see their power threatened do. Either way Milo wins - he gets to demonize someone and come out smelling like roses.
Milo is going to cause violence anywhere he is allowed to speak, one way or another. That's his entire goal and he's very, very good at getting what he wants, because he doesn't care who gets caught in the crossfire. I'm not sure how to stop something like that as long as he's allowed to encourage violence toward individuals through public shaming, doxxing, and social violence, because the only thing that seems to stop him has been an anarchist riot, which isn't good either. Ugh. i mean the whole point milo and his supporters are trying to prove is that the amount of people trying to "stop" him from speaking already demonstrates cultural weakness that should be re-evaluated/eliminated its troubling that you still seem to think its desirable to "stop" him from simply speaking The more troubling thing I find is there's a post-KKK group that love listening to him and the protests he keeps sparking are giving him more exposure and followers. He incites hatred on both sides of politics towards either himself or others. I recently sat down and watched one of his talks... He's eloquent, calm and is a master at handling the hecklers he baits out. The problem is he's literally just playing on the prejudices of ignorant bigots and spreading a heavily biased narrative. The comment section was full of how they loved how he spoke 'facts'/'truth' when he was blatantly exaggerating/lying and they were eating it up because it aligned with their hatred of muslims. He really just needs to be ignored completely and let the crazies go listen to him if they want. His ex-boss Bannon is the real problem. all narratives are heavily biased
That's semantic bullshit and makes it sound like all perspectives are equally valid. There are levels of bias, and there is still objective truth. If you think what he says/writes is as legitimate as the better mainstream media coverage you're a lost cause. The media outlets of the extreme right and left are FAR more biased with little basis in facts or reality.
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On February 03 2017 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect? I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other secually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo.
I love this answer because it perfectly illustrates how ill-equipped that the Left presently is to deal with the ongoing assault from the Alt Right and its sympathizers like Milo. When I talk about the Regressive Left doubling down on its tactics in response to Trump, et al., Biff's statement above is precisely the kind of sentiment that I'm referring to. It doesn't even occur to these people that there's an underlying point to the "hate and meanness" of the Right.
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On February 03 2017 02:22 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect? I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other secually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo. I love this answer because it perfectly illustrates how ill-equipped that the Left presently is to deal with the ongoing assault from the Alt Right and its sympathizers like Milo. When I talk about the Regressive Left doubling down on its tactics in response to Trump, et al., Biff's statement above is precisely the kind of sentiment that I'm referring to. It doesn't even occur to these people that there's an underlying point to the "hate and meanness" of the Right.
the existence of an underlying point does not mean that point could not have been expressed in a better way, without the hate and meanness.
if he only profferred those underlying points in a reasoned and calm fashion, there would probably no, or at least far less, objection.
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United States601 Posts
On February 03 2017 02:25 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:22 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect? I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other secually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo. I love this answer because it perfectly illustrates how ill-equipped that the Left presently is to deal with the ongoing assault from the Alt Right and its sympathizers like Milo. When I talk about the Regressive Left doubling down on its tactics in response to Trump, et al., Biff's statement above is precisely the kind of sentiment that I'm referring to. It doesn't even occur to these people that there's an underlying point to the "hate and meanness" of the Right. the existence of an underlying point does not mean that point could not have been expressed in a better way, without the hate and meanness. if he only profferred those underlying points in a reasoned and calm fashion, there would probably no, or at least far less, objection.
He would probably also be ignored.
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On February 03 2017 02:22 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect? I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other secually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo. I love this answer because it perfectly illustrates how ill-equipped that the Left presently is to deal with the ongoing assault from the Alt Right and its sympathizers like Milo. When I talk about the Regressive Left doubling down on its tactics in response to Trump, et al., Biff's statement above is precisely the kind of sentiment that I'm referring to. It doesn't even occur to these people that there's an underlying point to the "hate and meanness" of the Right.
Hey mate, i am NOT "the left".
And i am absolutely certain that there are plenty of justification to be found at the far right for being mean and hateful.
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I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling.
Edit: and yeah, I don't see how thinking Milo's a hate-spreading asshat automatically makes someone part of 'the left'. Milo's about as extreme right as it gets. I'm sure there are republican voters who would find him disturbing.
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On February 03 2017 02:27 Trainrunnef wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:25 zlefin wrote:On February 03 2017 02:22 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 03 2017 02:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 01:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Why on earth would a university invite Milo? To give a lecture about online harassment, misoginy and hatred?
It's not like the guy ever did anything else.. Because Milo is a legitimate emerging media star and one of the most important counter-cultural figures of his generation. Whether you agree with him or hate his message is irrelevant. It's not that i disagree with him. It's that he has absolutely nothing to offer but hate and meanness. If people are into that, it's fine and i have no problem in him trolling at Breitbart and making biggoted alt right kids happy, but what was he supposed to talk about in a university? How to launch harassment campaigns on twitter? I mean, since when being a popular fascist is enough to give lectures in one of the most respected universities in america? With those criterias, they could invite david duke too, stormfront is doing great. Have you considered the possibility that you really don't understand Milo's message and that distilling it down to "hate and meanness" is incorrect? I have and the answer is no, although i am quite sure that some people struggle to distinguish deep thought and the mysogynic and racist bullshit speech from a sexually insecure young male talking to other secually insecure young males. Because let's be clear, that's all there is to Milo. I love this answer because it perfectly illustrates how ill-equipped that the Left presently is to deal with the ongoing assault from the Alt Right and its sympathizers like Milo. When I talk about the Regressive Left doubling down on its tactics in response to Trump, et al., Biff's statement above is precisely the kind of sentiment that I'm referring to. It doesn't even occur to these people that there's an underlying point to the "hate and meanness" of the Right. the existence of an underlying point does not mean that point could not have been expressed in a better way, without the hate and meanness. if he only profferred those underlying points in a reasoned and calm fashion, there would probably no, or at least far less, objection. He would probably also be ignored.
aye, he probably would be.
at least by the ewider world; those looking closely would listen to and ponder his arguments.
most people simply don't actually care about seriously and thoughtfully looking at issues.
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On February 03 2017 02:29 Scarecrow wrote:
I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling.
How is distilling Milo down to "hate and meanness" a legitimate criticism?
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On February 03 2017 01:21 oneofthem wrote:
uh i just looked at this milo character. why would anyone listen to this guy speak
i would not deign to protest this guy.
you dont see why people would listen to milo speak? or was that rhetorical to reach your point that he's not worth protesting?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 03 2017 01:51 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 01:47 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 03 2017 01:26 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 03 2017 01:25 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
xDaunt reminds me (in this thread) of the old white men who want to return America back to the 50s and 60s. And some people in here have a solid head on their shoulders, but seem to miss the point at some junction when discussing politics. As of last month, reality has changed. The last year showed us that what we think we know about politics, means nothing. We are living in unprecedented times within America (within the last 30). Therefore, we must be open to all sorts of things happening that probably seemed taboo not too long ago. You can't use rational and sound logic. You are not dealing with it. In order to provoke change or discussion, your tactics and methods of communicating must change. i dont see how your communication skills are better id say from what youve demonstrated here they seem worse I lurk. Rarely do I engage in the topics because they move too fast. By the time I've responded, the thread is moved and I'm not inclined to go back 5+ pages to make a point. If you would like a more succinct demonstration, then I'll be more than happy to oblige after my appointment. fair enough; if youd like to demonstrate your communication skills, all id like you to do is to link a past discussion in which youve changed somebodys mind about something.
Hm I don't think that's entirely fair given how entrenched people can be on the internet.
I think someone with good communication skills could hit quite a long dry stretch of being unable to find someone open to being convinced of being wrong.
EDIT: Sorry this seems to be an old post already, it said 7 minutes ago and I hadn't refreshed my browser when I replied TT
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On February 03 2017 02:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:29 Scarecrow wrote:
I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling. How is distilling Milo down to "hate and meanness" a legitimate criticism?
It's more legitimate than the hot air your blew in return. And yes, having read/listened to Milo that's honestly a good summary. It might as well be his slogan.
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On February 03 2017 02:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:29 Scarecrow wrote:
I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling. How is distilling Milo down to "hate and meanness" a legitimate criticism?
Because he was supposed to speak at Berkeley and not at the local village pub. I don't even get how this is apparently a left-wing argument. Established prestigious academic institutions are now supposed to host every run of the mill troll? What's next, healing crystals in the medicine department?
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On February 03 2017 02:33 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:31 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:29 Scarecrow wrote:
I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling. How is distilling Milo down to "hate and meanness" a legitimate criticism? It's more legitimate than the hot air your blew in return. And yes, having read/listened to Milo that's honestly a good summary. It might as well be his slogan.
No, it's not a legitimate criticism because it completely misses the underlying cultural argument within Milo's message. Sure, Milo's bombastic (or, if you prefer, an asshole), but underneath the presentation is a real message.
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On February 03 2017 02:39 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 02:33 Scarecrow wrote:On February 03 2017 02:31 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2017 02:29 Scarecrow wrote:
I love how xDaunt just condescendingly craps on Biff's seemingly legitimate criticism of Milo without saying why the left is ill-equipped, or what the underlying point is beyond hate speech and trolling. How is distilling Milo down to "hate and meanness" a legitimate criticism? It's more legitimate than the hot air your blew in return. And yes, having read/listened to Milo that's honestly a good summary. It might as well be his slogan. No, it's not a legitimate criticism because it completely misses the underlying cultural argument within Milo's message. Sure, Milo's bombastic (or, if you prefer, an asshole), but underneath the presentation is a real message.
Couldn't this back and forth be happening with the exact same words but 'SJW' (or someone in particular on the left) swapped in for Milo and the poster names reversed?
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