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On December 17 2016 08:35 LegalLord wrote:Well, will he do it? Show nested quote +MANILA, Dec 17 (Reuters) - Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte told the United States on Saturday to prepare for the eventual repeal of a military deal that allows Washington to deploy troops and equipment for exercises in the country.
Duterte also said the Philippines can survive "without American money" after a U.S. aid agency put on hold a decision to fund anti-poverty programmes in the country.
"We do not need you," Duterte said in a news conference after arriving from visits to Cambodia and Singapore. "Prepare to leave the Philippines. Prepare for the eventual repeal or abrogation of the VFA." Source
Probably. I can't find myself caring that much though. They don't want US troops to be there to hold exercises or want US funding? Thats fine.
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Oh my bad lol.
Can someone help me understand the rationale behind the stripping of powers in NC? I guess they figure they'll retain control of the legislature, and the next time a Republican governor is elected, they'll give him the powers back?
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On December 17 2016 08:42 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:39 Doodsmack wrote:On December 17 2016 08:26 LegalLord wrote:We should place painful targeted sanctions on China and ensure that every future expedition vessel is accompanied by one or more nuclear submarine to make sure the Chinese get the message. On December 17 2016 08:06 xDaunt wrote:On December 17 2016 07:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
It's pretty clear that China and Russia consider Obama to be a pussy and don't expect any meaningful retaliation from him. This is what happens when you run a feckless foreign policy for eight years. Obama has been anything but feckless. Liberals don't whine about drones, afghanistan, and iraq for nothing. This is what happens when they know liberals hate being seen as the bad guys and seeing the Dems bend over backwards to look like an agreeable transition team that does not want to actually push back on any of the blatant problems Trump throws in their face. Obama has repeatedly backed away from any kind of confrontation with anything resembling a power. People talk about how Trump is going to take it easy on Russia, but let's get real: it has been during Obama's presidency that Russia has had its recent ascendance to being a major powerbroker on the global stage. Russia is getting pretty much everything that it wants already. As for China, Obama's Asian pivot has been a failure. He is currently exerting no pressure on China of any kind, all the while China continues to rob us blind in the international trade game. And our position in the Middle East is unequivocally weaker now than it was when Bush left office. Dropping bombs on terrorists isn't enough to overcome the fecklessness of these policies. Let's not mince words: that happened because the past two administrations have repeatedly blundered in the Middle East and ruined the credibility of the US alliance in the region. They made that opening and other powers exploit that opening. This escalation is going to come back to hurt our own pockets, you know. All because we wanted to send a message by talking to Taiwan? If trade deals are where we're losing, then focus on trade deals. Talking to Taiwan doesn't give us leverage, it gives us escalation. Your proposed military escalation would be a major blunder. I thought "nuclear submarines" made it obvious that the comment was intended to be satirical.
Haha, maybe people here are so aggressive in their military thinking that they don't even consider it might have been satire. It never occurred to me that you might've been serious.
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On December 17 2016 08:51 Doodsmack wrote:
Oh my bad lol.
Can someone help me understand the rationale behind the stripping of powers in NC? I guess they figure they'll retain control of the legislature, and the next time a Republican governor is elected, they'll give him the powers back?
it keeps republicans in control of things like the school system and appointments and the like. Heck it even lets them control the governors stats
I think with the way districts work they have a pretty big lead in terms of keeping republican control so their not too worried about it and with a republican governor it wouldn't matter because they'd all be on the same page
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On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards.
I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world.
And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power.
The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy.
It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful.
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On December 17 2016 08:51 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:42 LegalLord wrote:On December 17 2016 08:39 Doodsmack wrote:On December 17 2016 08:26 LegalLord wrote:We should place painful targeted sanctions on China and ensure that every future expedition vessel is accompanied by one or more nuclear submarine to make sure the Chinese get the message. On December 17 2016 08:06 xDaunt wrote:On December 17 2016 07:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
It's pretty clear that China and Russia consider Obama to be a pussy and don't expect any meaningful retaliation from him. This is what happens when you run a feckless foreign policy for eight years. Obama has been anything but feckless. Liberals don't whine about drones, afghanistan, and iraq for nothing. This is what happens when they know liberals hate being seen as the bad guys and seeing the Dems bend over backwards to look like an agreeable transition team that does not want to actually push back on any of the blatant problems Trump throws in their face. Obama has repeatedly backed away from any kind of confrontation with anything resembling a power. People talk about how Trump is going to take it easy on Russia, but let's get real: it has been during Obama's presidency that Russia has had its recent ascendance to being a major powerbroker on the global stage. Russia is getting pretty much everything that it wants already. As for China, Obama's Asian pivot has been a failure. He is currently exerting no pressure on China of any kind, all the while China continues to rob us blind in the international trade game. And our position in the Middle East is unequivocally weaker now than it was when Bush left office. Dropping bombs on terrorists isn't enough to overcome the fecklessness of these policies. Let's not mince words: that happened because the past two administrations have repeatedly blundered in the Middle East and ruined the credibility of the US alliance in the region. They made that opening and other powers exploit that opening. This escalation is going to come back to hurt our own pockets, you know. All because we wanted to send a message by talking to Taiwan? If trade deals are where we're losing, then focus on trade deals. Talking to Taiwan doesn't give us leverage, it gives us escalation. Your proposed military escalation would be a major blunder. I thought "nuclear submarines" made it obvious that the comment was intended to be satirical. Haha, maybe people here are so aggressive in their military thinking that they don't even consider it might have been satire. It never occurred to me that you might've been serious.
there are people who seriously think a good middle east strategy is nuking the region. I wish I was lying. Now I don't know how many there are but I've met people who believe it.
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On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful.
You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now.
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XDaunt may see their recent move as power plays but I see them as moves motivated more by fear then anything else.
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On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now.
There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany.
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On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany.
Yeah, but in the case of the EU, its not just Germany. It is Germany being able to wield everyone else, too.
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On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany.
You've already replaced "firepower" with "power", so I'm going to assume you mean economic strength? Or are you genuinely suggesting that Germany is the biggest military force in the EU despite not having nuclear weapons?
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On December 17 2016 09:07 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany. You've already replaced "firepower" with "power", so I'm going to assume you mean economic strength? Or are you genuinely suggesting that Germany is the biggest military force in the EU despite not having nuclear weapons?
Peace being maintained by firepower is a popular saying. If you have never heard of it, then I apologize for your ignorance.
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On December 17 2016 09:21 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 09:07 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany. You've already replaced "firepower" with "power", so I'm going to assume you mean economic strength? Or are you genuinely suggesting that Germany is the biggest military force in the EU despite not having nuclear weapons? Peace being maintained by firepower is a popular saying. If you have never heard of it, then I apologize for your ignorance.
I am sorry you are too daft to understand that I heard Putin saying that very thing. I don't really know why you're bringing that up, though, as it seems irrelevant to the post you're responding to. Hell, I don't know why you brought up Germany to begin with.
The thing that makes my brain scream "hypocrisy" is the chain of responses I quoted in my original post, along with what I said in that post. You've shown you don't have that level of hypocrisy in you, which is good on you. Perhaps I should have used "people" instead of "you" in my original post.
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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obama-putin-232754
can't make this shit up. First Clinton telling wall st to cut it out and now this.
President Barack Obama said Friday that he told Russian President Vladimir Putin in September to “cut it out” in regard to allegations that his nation engaged in cyberattacks against the U.S. electoral process.
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On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god.
I'm taking this to mean you think my point is dumb.
To which I'll say, you're ignorant of geopolitics and dealing with the realities of difficult situations; as well as ignorant of long-term strategy.
And you're also strawmanning, as what I described isn't pouting.
and as you're not interested in actually understanding the point, I'm not inclined to talk to you further, though I may do so anyways out of my unfortunate tendency to continue arguing with people. If someone else wants my point explained I'm fine with doing that to them.
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On December 17 2016 09:36 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. I'm taking this to mean you think my point is dumb. To which I'll say, you're ignorant of geopolitics and dealing with the realities of difficult situations; as well as ignorant of long-term strategy. And you're also strawmanning, as what I described isn't pouting.
I wasn't really arguing with you, just a bit fed up. I was implicitly arguing against Bernie's lack of desire to help Syrian's and with Trump's willingness to help Russia kill Syrians.
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On December 17 2016 09:23 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 09:21 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 09:07 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany. You've already replaced "firepower" with "power", so I'm going to assume you mean economic strength? Or are you genuinely suggesting that Germany is the biggest military force in the EU despite not having nuclear weapons? Peace being maintained by firepower is a popular saying. If you have never heard of it, then I apologize for your ignorance. I am sorry you are too daft to understand that I heard Putin saying that very thing. I don't really know why you're bringing that up, though, as it seems irrelevant to the post you're responding to. Hell, I don't know why you brought up Germany to begin with. The thing that makes my brain scream "hypocrisy" is the chain of responses I quoted in my original post, along with what I said in that post. You've shown you don't have that level of hypocrisy in you, which is good on you. Perhaps I should have used "people" instead of "you" in my original post.
Let me be specific then and use a different term.
"Speak softly, and carry a big stick" -Theodore Roosevelt
There is an amount of strength required if you're plan is to shame and judge nations into submission. You need to show a level of strength so that your opponents are only willing to engage with you on that level, as to attempt to engage on a more full basis would lead you to becoming overpowered.
Germany is pretty synonymous with the EU primarily because its economy is not a total shit show. Hence it can more easily dictate and determine how the EU runs and behaves much better than say Greece.
With what Russia and China has been doing the past year or more--there needs to be a lot more showcasing of strength from the US than what its doing now. The US did do that early in Obama's career; but the left has done everything they can to strip Obama of his teeth in an attempt to seem the helpless pacifists.
That is what my issues have been.
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On December 17 2016 08:51 Doodsmack wrote:
Oh my bad lol.
Can someone help me understand the rationale behind the stripping of powers in NC? I guess they figure they'll retain control of the legislature, and the next time a Republican governor is elected, they'll give him the powers back?
Yes. They are probably also specifically stripping the system in which the sitting governor's party appoints the county boards of elections (making all of them 2-1) so that they can continue to push restrictions of voting rights across the state.
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On December 17 2016 09:49 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 09:23 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 09:21 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 09:07 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 09:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:56 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 08:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 08:29 a_flayer wrote:On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:
[quote]
what would you like him to do?
I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done.
Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. I don't think the world truly cared about Russia until they took Crimea. I detest what they did on a personal level; but I fully understand why they did what they did and it has made me wary and watchful of Russia as an active player in the world. And as a Filipino; the build up in the South China Sea has definitely made me think of and imagine china as much more than just a trade deal monster and have been worried of military escalation there since the build up began. Once again, I detested it, but it also made me respect China's willingness to stretch their power. The drone strikes, the build up, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, the Iran Deal, etc... all are things Obama has been able to do that shows me he's willing to get a bloody lip to show other countries he's not a pushover. My issue? My issue are people like Bernie Sanders promising isolationism and cowardice to ensure that the US will never be respected. My issue is with people like Trump showing so much amatuerishness that Russia and China are willing to push boundaries to see how easily they can get Trump to tongue twist himself into the global bad guy. It does not have to be a military escalation; but peace has always been maintained by sufficient presentation of firepower. When you show weakness, then there's no need for them to be peaceful. You are literally thinking along the exact same lines that Putin is thinking. You could replace Putin as president and Russia would be doing exactly the same things on the world stage as it is now. There are many ways to present power. There's a reason that when we talk about the EU, what we really mean is Germany. You've already replaced "firepower" with "power", so I'm going to assume you mean economic strength? Or are you genuinely suggesting that Germany is the biggest military force in the EU despite not having nuclear weapons? Peace being maintained by firepower is a popular saying. If you have never heard of it, then I apologize for your ignorance. I am sorry you are too daft to understand that I heard Putin saying that very thing. I don't really know why you're bringing that up, though, as it seems irrelevant to the post you're responding to. Hell, I don't know why you brought up Germany to begin with. The thing that makes my brain scream "hypocrisy" is the chain of responses I quoted in my original post, along with what I said in that post. You've shown you don't have that level of hypocrisy in you, which is good on you. Perhaps I should have used "people" instead of "you" in my original post. Let me be specific then and use a different term. "Speak softly, and carry a big stick" -Theodore Roosevelt There is an amount of strength required if you're plan is to shame and judge nations into submission. You need to show a level of strength so that your opponents are only willing to engage with you on that level, as to attempt to engage on a more full basis would lead you to becoming overpowered. Germany is pretty synonymous with the EU primarily because its economy is not a total shit show. Hence it can more easily dictate and determine how the EU runs and behaves much better than say Greece. With what Russia and China has been doing the past year or more--there needs to be a lot more showcasing of strength from the US than what its doing now. The US did do that early in Obama's career; but the left has done everything they can to strip Obama of his teeth in an attempt to seem the helpless pacifists. That is what my issues have been.
Alright, I take it back. Your thinking is nothing like Putins. You want to shame and judge nations into submission? Holy. Shit. No wonder American policy is so destructive for the rest of the world.
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On December 17 2016 07:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. I consider myself heavily liberal, but this idea that everything can be solved by letting people pound you in the ass is getting old.
Pretty sure you're confusing liberal with dovish. If you recall, one of the main policy criticisms against Clinton was that she's too hawkish, so they don't necessarily go hand in hand.
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EPT
