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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 17 2016 05:21 Mohdoo wrote: What kind of proof are you looking for exactly? Does providing overly specific proof not in fact harm the FBI/CIA by showing how they know what they know? No, because matters of public interest require an above average degree of openness. Justification: rationale for conclusion is sufficient. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 17 2016 05:26 Thieving Magpie wrote: He's saying Comey is on the shit list of people showing incompetence and hence is less easy to trust. No, I actually trust Comey for the most part and have a lot of respect for him. He isn't immune from having to provide justification though. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
"Russia is deliberately targeting hospitals with the intent to kill civilians." I mean come on. This Russia hacking and meddling in elections for the purposes of X or Y smells like more of the same. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15736 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:17 Mohdoo wrote: Gonna be insanely disappointed in Obama if nothing comes of our fucking drone being stolen in international waters. what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15736 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote: what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. Fuck if I know. But from where I'm standing, China stealing US property in an area it claims as its own means doing nothing is somewhat admitting it is their area. That's not ok. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote: what would you like him to do? I'm pretty sure he'll do something; but there's only so much that can be done. Sometimes the best plan is to use a situation to gain international support from 3rd parties by being outraged, rather than any more direct retaliation. That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15736 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote: That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. I consider myself heavily liberal, but this idea that everything can be solved by letting people pound you in the ass is getting old. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
Not with Russia though - Russia is super ready to make concessions. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:54 xDaunt wrote: It's pretty clear that China and Russia consider Obama to be a pussy and don't expect any meaningful retaliation from him. This is what happens when you run a feckless foreign policy for eight years. Obama has been anything but feckless. Liberals don't whine about drones, afghanistan, and iraq for nothing. This is what happens when they know liberals hate being seen as the bad guys and seeing the Dems bend over backwards to look like an agreeable transition team that does not want to actually push back on any of the blatant problems Trump throws in their face. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:58 Thieving Magpie wrote: Obama has been anything but feckless. Liberals don't whine about drones, afghanistan, and iraq for nothing. This is what happens when they know liberals hate being seen as the bad guys and seeing the Dems bend over backwards to look like an agreeable transition team that does not want to actually push back on any of the blatant problems Trump throws in their face. Obama has repeatedly backed away from any kind of confrontation with anything resembling a power. People talk about how Trump is going to take it easy on Russia, but let's get real: it has been during Obama's presidency that Russia has had its recent ascendance to being a major powerbroker on the global stage. Russia is getting pretty much everything that it wants already. As for China, Obama's Asian pivot has been a failure. He is currently exerting no pressure on China of any kind, all the while China continues to rob us blind in the international trade game. And our position in the Middle East is unequivocally weaker now than it was when Bush left office. Dropping bombs on terrorists isn't enough to overcome the fecklessness of these policies. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:09 Slaughter wrote: How is Russia in any shape or form a power broker? They have been losing influence for years. The moves by Russia are the last gasps of a former super power who knows their position is falling. Not sure who you're kidding: The world's most powerful person for four years running, Russia's president has exerted his country's influence in nearly every corner of the globe; from the motherland to Syria to the U.S. presidential elections, Putin continues to get what he wants. Unconstrained by conventional global norms, his reach has magnified in recent years. In 2016 Russian hackers were accused of tapping into email accounts owned by members of the U.S. Democratic Party in a bid to aid the campaign of Donald Trump, who has regularly praised Putin's leadership style. The Kremlin denies the charges, and President-elect Trump has also dismissed the possibility of outsiders tampering in the election, despite a reported CIA memo suggesting otherwise. Either way, with a likely ally entering the White House, Putin's power may go largely unchecked for years to come. Source. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:06 xDaunt wrote: Obama has repeatedly backed away from any kind of confrontation with anything resembling a power. People talk about how Trump is going to take it easy on Russia, but let's get real: it has been during Obama's presidency that Russia has had its recent ascendance to being a major powerbroker on the global stage. Russia is getting pretty much everything that it wants already. As for China, Obama's Asian pivot has been a failure. He is currently exerting no pressure on China of any kind, all the while China continues to rob us blind in the international trade game. And our position in the Middle East is unequivocally weaker now than it was when Bush left office. Dropping bombs on terrorists isn't enough to overcome the fecklessness of these policies. Let's not mince words: that happened because the past two administrations have repeatedly blundered in the Middle East and ruined the credibility of the US alliance in the region. They made that opening and other powers exploit that opening. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote: That's the spirit. Get hacked by Russia and get robbed by China, then show power by pouting. Liberal foreign policy strategies are some the dumbest in the world I swear to god. How do you feel about Russia stealing Crimea as a response to the US working to overthrow their puppet-president in Ukraine? Or China working to secure their country by claiming the South China Sea as a response to military build-up around that region by the US? I find it extremely weird how people can say stuff like what you're saying but at the same time condemn other nations for taking action in their own regions of the world in order to protect/secure themselves. It is attitudes like that which make me sympathetic to Putin when he says that he thinks people hold the US and Russia to different standards. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
MANILA, Dec 17 (Reuters) - Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte told the United States on Saturday to prepare for the eventual repeal of a military deal that allows Washington to deploy troops and equipment for exercises in the country. Duterte also said the Philippines can survive "without American money" after a U.S. aid agency put on hold a decision to fund anti-poverty programmes in the country. "We do not need you," Duterte said in a news conference after arriving from visits to Cambodia and Singapore. "Prepare to leave the Philippines. Prepare for the eventual repeal or abrogation of the VFA." Source | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:26 LegalLord wrote: We should place painful targeted sanctions on China and ensure that every future expedition vessel is accompanied by one or more nuclear submarine to make sure the Chinese get the message. Let's not mince words: that happened because the past two administrations have repeatedly blundered in the Middle East and ruined the credibility of the US alliance in the region. They made that opening and other powers exploit that opening. This escalation is going to come back to hurt our own pockets, you know. All because we wanted to send a message by talking to Taiwan? If trade deals are where we're losing, then focus on trade deals. Talking to Taiwan doesn't give us leverage, it gives us escalation. Your proposed military escalation would be a major blunder. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:39 Doodsmack wrote: This escalation is going to come back to hurt our own pockets, you know. All because we wanted to send a message by talking to Taiwan? If trade deals are where we're losing, then focus on trade deals. Talking to Taiwan doesn't give us leverage, it gives us escalation. Your proposed military escalation would be a major blunder. I thought "nuclear submarines" made it obvious that the comment was intended to be satirical. | ||
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