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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5953

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-07 03:09:41
November 07 2016 03:07 GMT
#119041
sorry but i had to take a crack at the 'aknowledging the existence of race is racist' argument. its too juicy

User was warned for this post
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 07 2016 03:09 GMT
#119042
On November 07 2016 12:06 Plansix wrote:
God please let's avoid race, racial identity and racism 101. Bern through it to many times in this thread.

I'm absolutely with you on this one.

Though I did notice this interesting (bolded) typo while writing this and I wanted to bring it up.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-07 03:10:42
November 07 2016 03:09 GMT
#119043


More details about North Carolina and the continued effort to stop democrats from voting.

LL: phone posting is hard.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
November 07 2016 03:13 GMT
#119044
On November 07 2016 11:57 PassiveAce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2016 11:53 RealityIsKing wrote:
On November 07 2016 11:14 xDaunt wrote:
On November 07 2016 11:00 zlefin wrote:
I'll be interested to see kwizach's response to legal's analysis. Legal raises several good points.
I'd say the most unambiguously correct point of legal's is that citations should not be behind paywalls or hard to access. at least not for the standards of an internet discussion board.

Your complaint about kwizach's post is that he cited sources behind a paywall? You should read this paragraph again from LegalLord's post:

In short, kwizach's entire point is predicated on a strawman - that there is an implied support for genocide and mass murder within the position that xDaunt advocated. He then cites a slew of academic sources, some of which are questionable, most of which are taken out of context, many of which are relatively in line with what xDaunt actually supported but which tend to discourage the caricatured position (mass genocide). Then to add icing to the cake, he ends his post with the insane hyperbole of talking about nuking the entire Middle East.


The thing about Kwizach's posting theme is that he likes to play a lot of identity politics such as skin color, sexual orientation, gender, etc. things that are very much superficial instead of thinking more about ideas inside people's brains.

He is a highly divisive character.

if you dont see how the two are linked then ur lost
the experience of being a black/gay/whatever person informs who you are

also I'm in love with the idea that talking about race is inherently divisive. Its an interesting way for alt righters to deny the importance of race in american society. It also serves to help portray themselves as unifiers while painting the people who actually want to address race related issues as 'the real racists.' because, you know, they talk about race.


Oh you can talk about races but don't make it the core of your existence.

Once that happen, its detrimental.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
November 07 2016 03:13 GMT
#119045
I too am for a restarting of the thread for after the election as its run its cource from the last presidential election.

We should go through a period of curating and going back through the thread to find major points that were covered but I feel that the thread has always been very topical. The time that the nation was focused on health care reform the thread was very focused on it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
November 07 2016 03:17 GMT
#119046
On November 07 2016 12:13 Sermokala wrote:
I too am for a restarting of the thread for after the election as its run its cource from the last presidential election.

We should go through a period of curating and going back through the thread to find major points that were covered but I feel that the thread has always been very topical. The time that the nation was focused on health care reform the thread was very focused on it.


We need to create a sub forum specifically focusing on political issues.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-07 03:20:38
November 07 2016 03:19 GMT
#119047
I as well am ok with the idea of a new thread. It's a good chance to reboot the rules since in a thread this long people start to forget about them.

I have also made plenty of comments about the trajectory of this thread in the feedback thread, and I think the issues that were considered there should be considered in the making of the new thread.

On November 07 2016 12:13 Sermokala wrote:
We should go through a period of curating and going back through the thread to find major points that were covered but I feel that the thread has always been very topical. The time that the nation was focused on health care reform the thread was very focused on it.

I've found it surprisingly easy to find any post I need to reference just by using the search feature. Any post I've needed to cite, I've always been able to find relatively easily.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
November 07 2016 03:26 GMT
#119048
On November 07 2016 12:17 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2016 12:13 Sermokala wrote:
I too am for a restarting of the thread for after the election as its run its cource from the last presidential election.

We should go through a period of curating and going back through the thread to find major points that were covered but I feel that the thread has always been very topical. The time that the nation was focused on health care reform the thread was very focused on it.


We need to create a sub forum specifically focusing on political issues.

From my experience the conversation in the thread has never splintered enough to justify making a whole subforum for it. looping in the other political threads and maybe NASA would be an akward arrangement anyway.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
November 07 2016 03:29 GMT
#119049
It probably isn't in your best interest. While I enjoy the occasional wall of text, I'm not reading these giant opinion pieces on "How the world should work according to an internet guy".

The pages may fly by but you have a chance of getting that big ol block of text read than a special forum. That will end up with a general thread anyway if every other forum is any indication.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 07 2016 03:39 GMT
#119050
Sorry I keep posting complaints about polls but how have there been no polls to come out of Florida the past two days? The previous four, if all given equal weight, have Clinton ahead by 1/4th of a point, I really want more
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11450 Posts
November 07 2016 03:39 GMT
#119051
There's absolutely no reason for a political subforum at this point. Subforums of that sort tend to be created because 'hey, there are so many threads being created by TL users for long, long periods of time, wouldn't be neat if we could combine them in one area to make things easier to read for everyone.' It generally doesn't come from 'hey, let's break up a superthread, make a subforum, and hope people fill it with threads to warrant the subforum.' These sort of subforums are driven by demand, not so much by supply side economics
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-07 03:47:45
November 07 2016 03:47 GMT
#119052
On November 07 2016 12:39 plasmidghost wrote:
Sorry I keep posting complaints about polls but how have there been no polls to come out of Florida the past two days? The previous four, if all given equal weight, have Clinton ahead by 1/4th of a point, I really want more

Because the polls become less accurate the closer we get to Election Day, especially with early voting. At some point there is nothing to be gained, since we are taking a nation wide poll Tuesday. The dye is cast.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
November 07 2016 03:48 GMT
#119053
Hey how about we talk about the election?

Has anyone watched Frontline's "The Choice" on the two candidates? I know PBS is thought to be kinda liberal but Frontline has always done pretty in-depth and thorough reporting. If you've seen it, worth a watch?
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
November 07 2016 03:48 GMT
#119054
On November 07 2016 12:39 Falling wrote:
There's absolutely no reason for a political subforum at this point. Subforums of that sort tend to be created because 'hey, there are so many threads being created by TL users for long, long periods of time, wouldn't be neat if we could combine them in one area to make things easier to read for everyone.' It generally doesn't come from 'hey, let's break up a superthread, make a subforum, and hope people fill it with threads to warrant the subforum.' These sort of subforums are driven by demand, not so much by supply side economics


This thread have so many interesting sub-topics that can be discussed with more focus.

Its just better organization.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 07 2016 03:53 GMT
#119055
On November 07 2016 12:47 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2016 12:39 plasmidghost wrote:
Sorry I keep posting complaints about polls but how have there been no polls to come out of Florida the past two days? The previous four, if all given equal weight, have Clinton ahead by 1/4th of a point, I really want more

Because the polls become less accurate the closer we get to Election Day, especially with early voting. At some point there is nothing to be gained, since we are taking a nation wide poll Tuesday. The dye is cast.

I guess, oh well, just two more days and I'll have all my questions answered
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 07 2016 03:55 GMT
#119056
No more polls means no more model adjustments for 538. Soon we will see whether the guy who made a name for himself by predicting an Obama blowout will preserve his reputation by predicting a close election.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 07 2016 03:56 GMT
#119057
I think a dedicated US politics subforum would be unnecessary, but it could work, have a separate thread for each topic ilke health care, gun control, the economy, immigration, etc, and the OPs in each one would provide a ton of posts to see what users and others say on what should be changed or not changed
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-07 03:57:06
November 07 2016 03:56 GMT
#119058
On November 07 2016 12:39 Falling wrote:
There's absolutely no reason for a political subforum at this point. Subforums of that sort tend to be created because 'hey, there are so many threads being created by TL users for long, long periods of time, wouldn't be neat if we could combine them in one area to make things easier to read for everyone.' It generally doesn't come from 'hey, let's break up a superthread, make a subforum, and hope people fill it with threads to warrant the subforum.' These sort of subforums are driven by demand, not so much by supply side economics

Eh, it's nothing to do with breaking up superthreads. I've been on forums where they have politics subforums with general threads very similar to this one. Smaller threads were usually used for more indepth discussions that frequently started in the large thread but wound up either annoying everyone reading them or that the participants were interested in for much longer periods than any other of the regulars were.

Generally it wound up with several threads on different, large topics, while smaller updates were discussed in the main thread. An example would be that I have 0 interest in nuclear proliferation discussions, but I know that it's a large point of interest for others. It also allowed for more of a pick and choose approach to discussions (especially helpful with some controversial issues like race/gender politics - though those are a fucking nightmare to moderate, I'm sure).

I do not really think that there's a large enough demand for one on this site, though. It's a video gaming site, the only real appeal for it regarding politics is that the audience is far more international than most of the other forums.

Back on topic :
On November 07 2016 12:39 plasmidghost wrote:
Sorry I keep posting complaints about polls but how have there been no polls to come out of Florida the past two days? The previous four, if all given equal weight, have Clinton ahead by 1/4th of a point, I really want more



I am expecting a few polls to drop tomorrow, but part of the reason you may see fewer is that there's far less utility to polls a day or two before election - polls in the last week have determined where the campaigns are holding events, but they aren't going to change their schedule for wednesday on no matter what the polls are saying
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43728 Posts
November 07 2016 04:00 GMT
#119059
On November 07 2016 12:56 Nevuk wrote:
I am expecting a few polls to drop tomorrow, but part of the reason you may see fewer is that there's far less utility to polls a day or two before election - polls in the last week have determined where the campaigns are holding events, but they aren't going to change their schedule for wednesday on no matter what the polls are saying

The markets are always hungry for more information. Information is money.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 07 2016 04:10 GMT
#119060
On November 07 2016 13:00 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2016 12:56 Nevuk wrote:
I am expecting a few polls to drop tomorrow, but part of the reason you may see fewer is that there's far less utility to polls a day or two before election - polls in the last week have determined where the campaigns are holding events, but they aren't going to change their schedule for wednesday on no matter what the polls are saying

The markets are always hungry for more information. Information is money.

The information vastly decreases in value from Tuesday morning onwards though. There's something of a strict time limit. After that point it'll be mostly the domain of academics, polling retrospectives, and possibly party autopsies.
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