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On June 17 2016 05:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Watching John McCain, almost desperately, trying to walk back his comments about Obama and Orlando shooting is sad and hilarious. It's almost as if the man is terrified of not having a job.
What in the god damn fuck was he thinking? Directly responsible? My god. The dude is so old he just just retire before getting replaced.
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On June 17 2016 05:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 02:27 SolaR- wrote:On June 17 2016 02:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 17 2016 01:43 Danglars wrote:On June 17 2016 01:19 xDaunt wrote:On June 17 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:On June 17 2016 01:06 xDaunt wrote:
We ought to bring back firing squads and hanging for conducting executions. Lethal injection is turning into shit show. Let's keep it simple. I read a news article a few years back where some states either wanted to or have brought back firing squads as a more common form of execution. Argument was that lethal injections have been a shit show and that firing squads are actually more humane than they look. Not sure to what extent I believe it but it definitely is a topic that is being considered at the local/state level. Firing squad is cheap, quick, and effective. Yes, it makes a little bit of a mess compared to lethal injection, but let's get real: we're killing a dude. If we're using quick, this is in the context of waiting the average 15 years a sclerotic justice system gets around to the act. And a dysfunctional system that is completely unfair and send innocent people to the slaughter. Especially when they are black and poor. Death penalty is a disgrace, and death penalty in the US is the one biggest shame of that country (even though the list is long). But some people want blood I guess. Eh, if you murdered or raped someone you should just be killed off swiftly. People like that don't deserve to live. This world already has a huge overpopulation problem that shows no signs of slowing down. What is the point in keeping those awful people around? It's not because some people are disgusting that we have to be disgusting ourselves.
I would ask: What is disgusting, intrinsically, about ending a life? If we have a military and believe in self defense, we can say ending life is not intrinsically immoral. From there, becomes an analysis as to whether the killing is justified or not.
The first question is: Will taking this life result in the indirect saving of lives/sanity? By killing 1 guy, do we keep 5 women out of therapy for the rest of their lives? That's hard to answer, but we can get close, I would think
The second question is: How do we convert between immoral action and moral action? If taking the life of an immoral person saves the sanity of a moral person, is it a net benefit? How much worse is an immoral person than a moral person?
I think it is well established that a 1:1 trade is always considered good. If a murderer is intent on killing someone, and only that person, society dictates it is moral to kill the murderer for the sake of saving a life. So if we can know that killing this person will prevent the loss of 1 life, we have other indicators that it is acceptable.
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And from the reporting I'm seeing, Obama is more or less blaming Republicans. What a sicko.
Edit:By which I mean, I am reading his words.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/upshot/bernie-sanders-and-the-terms-of-surrender.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
The NYT brings up an interesting point regarding Bernie's decision to wait this long to endorse Clinton. On one hand, his support is hugely valuable. But on the other hand, he loses a lot of bargaining power as Clinton continues to lead Trump. When Clinton is managing to do just fine without Bernie, Bernie loses a lot of sway.
The national conversation is already entirely past the primary process. The late endorsement by Bernie is more of a loose end to tie up rather than something actively stopping the party from moving forward. The nation is already in full general election mode. Not a hint of Sanders anywhere other than the occasional "Oh, right, so when's he gonna endorse?". As this trend continues, and Clinton becomes more and more the face of the party, who needs him?
This is not to say I don't think they need him. I think they would hugely benefit from him. But this waiting game isn't necessarily good for Sanders or his legacy.
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By that same argument its been beneficial for the Clinton campaign to avoid negotiating with him over his endorsement as their position keeps getting stronger as his gets weaker.
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On June 17 2016 05:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 02:27 SolaR- wrote:On June 17 2016 02:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 17 2016 01:43 Danglars wrote:On June 17 2016 01:19 xDaunt wrote:On June 17 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:On June 17 2016 01:06 xDaunt wrote:
We ought to bring back firing squads and hanging for conducting executions. Lethal injection is turning into shit show. Let's keep it simple. I read a news article a few years back where some states either wanted to or have brought back firing squads as a more common form of execution. Argument was that lethal injections have been a shit show and that firing squads are actually more humane than they look. Not sure to what extent I believe it but it definitely is a topic that is being considered at the local/state level. Firing squad is cheap, quick, and effective. Yes, it makes a little bit of a mess compared to lethal injection, but let's get real: we're killing a dude. If we're using quick, this is in the context of waiting the average 15 years a sclerotic justice system gets around to the act. And a dysfunctional system that is completely unfair and send innocent people to the slaughter. Especially when they are black and poor. Death penalty is a disgrace, and death penalty in the US is the one biggest shame of that country (even though the list is long). But some people want blood I guess. Eh, if you murdered or raped someone you should just be killed off swiftly. People like that don't deserve to live. This world already has a huge overpopulation problem that shows no signs of slowing down. What is the point in keeping those awful people around? It's not because some people are disgusting that we have to be disgusting ourselves. And many people deserve death and worse ; this obscene ritual that is death penalty only make us look like them. And then, 1. There are PLENTY of judicial errors. No justice is perfect, and every single innocent executed makes everyone supporting death penalty, a murderer. I am not a murderer. You cannot be american and support death penalty without a complete redesign of the whole american judicial system, which is totally fucked up. And if you like the idea of that completely fucked up system sending people to their death, well.. That says a lot about you. 2. Most criminal are mentally ill. Serial killers, sexual offenders and such are often completely disturbed and in very little control of their action. Killing them is at best morally questionable. 3. Many, many criminals have had horrifying lives. Easy to say they should be killed when I have no idea what they went through. And how I would be had I had their lives. But anyway. The whole process of is so disgusting and obscene that this should be an argument in itself. I don't want to live in a society where such things happen. Killing people like they were animals. With the victim family watching. It's atrocious.
So, there should be no penalty for murder or rape? Where is the deterrent?
Everyone has a story of who they are, that doesn't change the fact that they are monsters. Hitler, has a sad story too.
So we just excuse everyone, because of their horrible upbringing?
Leave it to the liberal to defend sexual predators and murders and make me the monster.
People need to be held accountable for their actions annd if they choose to end someone's life, then they have given up their right to live in this society.
We need order in our society. Human life is not this magical sacred thing anyway. We are just some animal that thinks it's smarter and more important than it actually is. Therefore, when you have a human that not only is not pulling it's weight, but also murdering it's fellow humans. The logical and most simple solution is to execute them, not only to serve justice and act as a deterrent, but it is one less shitty human to worry about.
I don't care if this seems apalling to you.i think it is appalling you excuse the horrible actions of murderers and sexual predators. I think human beings need to be held in check, and if you make that choice to commit the worst act imaginable you should be prepard to die yourself.
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Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity.
To Biff:
+ Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever. ![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ76_jzLtAmOmpXq6Rp2mEU4ECvGJsoIBeLk7bWo_sC4xvopytL)
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On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever.
are those the screw driver guys?
EDIT: nevermind it's the hammer guys. yea...
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On June 17 2016 07:24 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever. are those the screw driver guys?
aaaand I think that's all I care to know about regarding this lol.
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On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever.
My god, how all of them were not executed is beyond me.
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Never felt the interest to watch it as i'm not into gore and stuff but i remember one of the videos they made, the internet was going crazy about it, had no idea the kids in the above picture was responsible though. Sad that they are still breathing.
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On June 17 2016 06:08 Introvert wrote:
And from the reporting I'm seeing, Obama is more or less blaming Republicans.
Rightly so.
On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:
Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast.
Please don't ever change.
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On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever.
I liked Marxist Biff a lot more than milquetoast liberal Biff. The former was at least interesting.
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On June 17 2016 07:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 06:08 Introvert wrote:
And from the reporting I'm seeing, Obama is more or less blaming Republicans. Rightly so.
Explain.
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On June 17 2016 07:49 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 07:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2016 06:08 Introvert wrote:
And from the reporting I'm seeing, Obama is more or less blaming Republicans. Rightly so. Explain.
He thinks republicans were responsible for omar marteen targetting homosexuals. (see gun control thread)
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 17 2016 07:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever. I liked Marxist Biff a lot more than milquetoast liberal Biff. The former was at least interesting.
Recently he's just been a Paul Krugman mouthpiece and it's more than a little tiring.
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On June 17 2016 07:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:
Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. Please don't ever change.
What, can't you draw the line between United States using capital punishment and winning World War II? It's pretty obvious^^
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On June 17 2016 05:01 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 04:14 SolaR- wrote:On June 17 2016 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2016 04:01 SolaR- wrote:On June 17 2016 03:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 17 2016 00:43 SK.Testie wrote:On June 17 2016 00:34 Plansix wrote:
If you feel sympathetic towards the drug addict is irrelevant to how the problem of their drug addiction is addressed. Laws and their punishments are not based on what makes us feel good or we like, its based on remedying the problem. Perfect response, agreed. Even despite the difference in sentiment. Addiction isn’t something that is solved by jail time. It is solved through therapy and providing the person the skills to deal with their addiction. Sending them to jail just assures that they will emerge with the same problem, less of a support network and be very likely to become addicted again. That isn’t a solution. And now the only disagreement that may possibly arise is methodology. Whereas I would prefer Singapore to enforce strict standards where everybody knows the drill and you would prefer a more nuanced and humane course of action. I could argue that those who got addicted knew what they were getting themselves into, and I'm not sure how effective rehab is considering many people 'relapse'. Giving skills and a job is most definitely preferrable. I don't know what rates people stay 'clean' or how often it stays for life. You're doing this again... Singapore has strict regulations for drugs they don't like, but they have more loose drug laws too. It takes 4 grams of opium in the US to get a trafficking charge, in Singapore you can have more than 20x that without catching a trafficking charge. What you're really saying is you want to kill people for using/distributing drugs you don't approve of. You can couch it in a way to try to make it look reasonable, but it's more absurd than any of the snarky comments you get in return. On June 17 2016 02:27 SolaR- wrote:On June 17 2016 02:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 17 2016 01:43 Danglars wrote:On June 17 2016 01:19 xDaunt wrote:On June 17 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:
[quote]
I read a news article a few years back where some states either wanted to or have brought back firing squads as a more common form of execution. Argument was that lethal injections have been a shit show and that firing squads are actually more humane than they look. Not sure to what extent I believe it but it definitely is a topic that is being considered at the local/state level. Firing squad is cheap, quick, and effective. Yes, it makes a little bit of a mess compared to lethal injection, but let's get real: we're killing a dude. If we're using quick, this is in the context of waiting the average 15 years a sclerotic justice system gets around to the act. And a dysfunctional system that is completely unfair and send innocent people to the slaughter. Especially when they are black and poor. Death penalty is a disgrace, and death penalty in the US is the one biggest shame of that country (even though the list is long). But some people want blood I guess. Eh, if you murdered or raped someone you should just be killed off swiftly. People like that don't deserve to live. This world already has a huge overpopulation problem that shows no signs of slowing down. What is the point in keeping those awful people around? So we kill the people who killed innocent people sentenced to death, do we kill the prosecutor and jury too or just the trigger person? On June 17 2016 03:51 Sermokala wrote:On June 17 2016 03:48 LegalLord wrote:On June 17 2016 03:38 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2016 14:26 oBlade wrote:On June 16 2016 14:07 Doodsmack wrote:
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I know that the body count is high, most perpetrators are white males, and the risk continues. Therefore to reduce the risk, since we don't know which exact mentally ill white males will snap next, we should address the population as a whole, knowing that the risk is there. We have databases of hundreds of thousands of people now, are you trying to argue against those or is this just for you to be sarcastic? If you're willing to ban Muslims and implement the Muslim database/mosque monitoring, you should be willing to back up that sentiment and do what's necessary to protect our safety and security. Which is a greater threat to American citizens - Muslims or mentally ill white males? Do you want to just let there be more mass murders by mentally ill white males? Are you trying to establish some sort of false dichotomy that we can't do both? Hes trying to make a joke that banning Muslims is on the same level as interning all white males that are deemed mentally ill. It became beyond offensive the moment he started trying to defend it. Yeah, because defending banning all Muslims (from even visiting btw) isn't beyond offensive... Im usually with you on a lot of things but are you seriously saying there is something wrong with killing a cold blooded murderer. Insisting that the jury and prosecution are just as guilty of murder for serving justice to a horrible individual? Think you missed the "innocent" part? If you are suggesting that there are innocent people found guilty of murder or rape, then I have a solution. Only give swift executions for the people who undeniably did the crime. For sentences with cloudy "evidence" give them a delayed sentence, while people continue to investigate their supposed crimes. Also, on the left there are many feminists that complain that so many rapists go free due to lack of evidence. So how would that help their case? Dude what? It's not a suggestion. It's a fact. And why are you trying to connect it to rapists who aren't sentenced? You understand there's a difference between a false positive and a false negative right? And that just because you find false positives to be a really really really bad outcome that that might have almost nothing to do with reducing false negatives?
The concepts are related though and it is always a trade-off between convicting innocents and letting guilty people go free. As a society, we choose that convicting innocents is significantly worse than letting guilty people free.
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On June 17 2016 07:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 06:08 Introvert wrote:
And from the reporting I'm seeing, Obama is more or less blaming Republicans. Rightly so.
Yeah, I don't agree with that and certainly don't think it is a productive dialog line to take.
Is it really just the Republicans or are plenty of Democrats also against tighter gun laws?
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On June 17 2016 07:17 SK.Testie wrote:Biff is the definition of a cheese eating surrender monkey. No wonder Germany mopped the floor with you guys so fast. But seriously your reasoning seems to paralyze the populace into a place where it would ultimately put more good people in harms way due to a lack of proper action. Or sympathizing with those who have surrendered their human dignity. To Biff: + Show Spoiler +Like, here's a picture of two guys that seem far worse than even mass shooters. Mass shooters are definitely sick, but sometimes even they have their own seemingly twisted reasoning or think they are somehow doing good. They're still sick and evil but here's two guys that seem far worse to me. If ever there was a definition of pure evil this is it. For those of you who know who these two are... there's not a doubt in your mind that execution is the right choice. The only choice. There's no rehab, there's no 'maybe we shouldn't.' There's only a genuine fear of what these two are capable of and they've lost the trust of any rational human being forever.
Oh god, I didn't want to know this shit. Fuck you, google reverse image search...
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EPT
