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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3529

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
April 03 2016 19:11 GMT
#70561
On April 04 2016 03:35 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2016 03:14 Jormundr wrote:
On April 03 2016 14:04 oneofthem wrote:
the 'activist volunteer' in charge of credentialing delegates for that convention was released for leaking voter information and other problems. no credit for guessing who this lady is agitating for.


anyway

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/at-rallies-hillary-clintons-supporters-are-looking-for-logic/2016/04/02/4098c502-f73f-11e5-a3ce-f06b5ba21f33_story.html

sandernistas expecting government to change the economic fortunes of their own lot will be sorely disappointed. like all such changes, it takes work. but this is not the crowd pleasing answer.

Hillary pulled some jive shit (actual sources included)
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-wins-nevada-democratic-caucus/

It's obvious at this point that you are an anthropomorphic reptilian who walks among us and you support Hillary because she is already your leader.
=^_^=

P.S.
From your article "At the polling place, hillary supporters were handing out bottles of water. Trump and Bernie are always angry."
That is a persuasive argument.

this is some low quality propaganda. you are taking a sanders delegate at her word despite direct evidence contradictory to her claims.

All four credential committee members (two sanders two hillary) actually. But hey it's fine that you can't/won't read. You've already shown that you prefer your Hillary propaganda to be devoid of any primary or secondary sources so I can see why you would prefer to dismiss this evidence rather than rebut it.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 03 2016 21:31 GMT
#70562

The self-induced twilight of the west

Obama’s presidency has overseen a waning of US interest in Europe

It seemed exaggerated at the time. But when Europeans fretted that Barack Obama’s election would mean a waning US interest in Europe they were not far wrong. Mr Obama was America’s first Pacific president, which also made him its first non-Atlantic one. His pivot to Asia need not have been a pivot away from Europe — but that is how it has turned out. If there were any doubt Mr Obama’s priorities lay beyond Europe (and the Middle East), they have been put to rest in the past year. Can whomever succeeds him revive the Atlantic alliance? For that matter, how much of one will he bequeath?

The answer is a rapidly moving target. Eight months ago Europe finally seemed to have answered Henry Kissinger’s quandary about whom to telephone. That was Angela Merkel. The US intelligence services admittedly took that too literally by eavesdropping on Ms Merkel’s calls. But it was clear who was in charge. Others were prepared to follow her. All that is now moot. Following Ms Merkel’s decision to open Germany’s doors to Syrian refugees, even domestic allies have distanced themselves from her — not to mention neighbours, such as Austria, Poland and France, which explicitly repudiated her move. As a result, the already strained European project hangs in the balance.

Does America care? If you canvass its foreign policy establishment — the administrations-in-waiting that populate the Brookings Institution, the Council on Foreign Relations and elsewhere — the answer is a strong yes. US bipartisan elites have always backed the transatlantic alliance, which they still see as the cornerstone of the US-led global order.

But think tanks are so 20th century. Politicians no longer hold the same degree of respect for them. Obama officials refer to Washington’s Massachusetts Avenue, the home of many of them, as “Arab-occupied territory”, because of the level of Gulf money they solicit. Some of those hoping to succeed Mr Obama, including Donald Trump, who would be happy for the US to walk away from Nato, have barely set foot in one.

Among the other candidates, only Hillary Clinton and John Kasich, the Ohio governor, fit the traditional mould. Their campaigns are advised by many of the familiar names in waiting. Even they, however, would agree with Mr Obama’s frustration over Europe’s “free riders”. For all her Atlanticism, it is not clear whether a Hillary Clinton administration would mark a big change from Mr Obama.
There are two big obstacles to reviving the west as we knew it.

The first is the crisis in Syria. It is hard to find anyone on either side of the Atlantic who believes last month’s deal between Turkey and the EU will survive 2016. Turkey’s agreement to stem the flow of Syrian refugees to Europe is based on the pretence its citizens will be given visa-free travel to Europe, and that EU accession talks will be revived. Once both fictions are unmasked, Turkey will be tempted to turn the refugee spigot back on. If there were any doubts in the US that Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s president, is an autocrat, it was dispelled at the Brookings Institution last week when his bodyguards manhandled journalists critical of his regime. There is no chance Turkey will be invited to join the EU. Nor should there be.

Which puts the spotlight back on the US. No matter how hard John Kerry, the US secretary of state, tries to broker a diplomatic solution to Syria’s civil war, it is outweighed by Mr Obama’s lack of interest. Without strong White House support, Mr Kerry’s mission is quixotic.

Mr Obama’s reluctance to put US troops in Syria is understandable. But he could have tried other things. For example, taking more Syrian refugees would have given him greater moral traction to sway collective action in Europe. The US has only processed 1,300 of the 10,000 Syrians that he pledged to take last year. He is unlikely to meet that target before leaving office.

Last week, the Obama administration gave $10m to the UN Syrian refugee effort, which is less than the cost of a US missile strike. It is possible Mrs Clinton would be more activist than Mr Obama. But she would also be limited by public opinion. For the time being Europe cannot look to Washington to fix Syria. Nor is it capable of doing so on its own.

The second obstacle is surging populism on both sides of the Atlantic. Whether it is Britain’s EU Leave campaign, Marine Le Pen’s strong poll lead over French president François Hollande, or the rise of Mr Trump in the US, the momentum is away from “the west” as we have understood it. It is no secret that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, would like Brexit to happen, supports Ms Le Pen and returns Mr Trump’s admiration.

It is an open question how long Europe will be able to maintain its post-Crimea sanctions on Russia. It is worth recalling that it was Ms Merkel — not Mr Obama — who was instrumental in putting them in place.

Nowadays, moreover, it is Russia, not the US, that is the prime mover on Syria. US generals have testified that Russia’s bombing of Aleppo and elsewhere is deliberately “weaponising refugees” to weaken Europe. So far Russia’s repugnant strategy seems to be working. But it is a strategy. The problem facing the west — if that term holds — is that it still lacks anything resembling one.
Edward Luce - Financial Times

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
April 03 2016 22:32 GMT
#70563
There's a big protest in front of CNN in CA. thousands of people watching it live, CNN hasn't seemed to notice yet.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 03 2016 23:34 GMT
#70564
On April 04 2016 04:11 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2016 03:35 oneofthem wrote:
On April 04 2016 03:14 Jormundr wrote:
On April 03 2016 14:04 oneofthem wrote:
the 'activist volunteer' in charge of credentialing delegates for that convention was released for leaking voter information and other problems. no credit for guessing who this lady is agitating for.


anyway

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/at-rallies-hillary-clintons-supporters-are-looking-for-logic/2016/04/02/4098c502-f73f-11e5-a3ce-f06b5ba21f33_story.html

sandernistas expecting government to change the economic fortunes of their own lot will be sorely disappointed. like all such changes, it takes work. but this is not the crowd pleasing answer.

Hillary pulled some jive shit (actual sources included)
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-wins-nevada-democratic-caucus/

It's obvious at this point that you are an anthropomorphic reptilian who walks among us and you support Hillary because she is already your leader.
=^_^=

P.S.
From your article "At the polling place, hillary supporters were handing out bottles of water. Trump and Bernie are always angry."
That is a persuasive argument.

this is some low quality propaganda. you are taking a sanders delegate at her word despite direct evidence contradictory to her claims.

All four credential committee members (two sanders two hillary) actually. But hey it's fine that you can't/won't read. You've already shown that you prefer your Hillary propaganda to be devoid of any primary or secondary sources so I can see why you would prefer to dismiss this evidence rather than rebut it.

look there is simply direct evidence against these claims. when words go against evidence guess what wins? this is evidence 101
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
April 03 2016 23:42 GMT
#70565
On April 04 2016 08:34 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2016 04:11 Jormundr wrote:
On April 04 2016 03:35 oneofthem wrote:
On April 04 2016 03:14 Jormundr wrote:
On April 03 2016 14:04 oneofthem wrote:
the 'activist volunteer' in charge of credentialing delegates for that convention was released for leaking voter information and other problems. no credit for guessing who this lady is agitating for.


anyway

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/at-rallies-hillary-clintons-supporters-are-looking-for-logic/2016/04/02/4098c502-f73f-11e5-a3ce-f06b5ba21f33_story.html

sandernistas expecting government to change the economic fortunes of their own lot will be sorely disappointed. like all such changes, it takes work. but this is not the crowd pleasing answer.

Hillary pulled some jive shit (actual sources included)
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-wins-nevada-democratic-caucus/

It's obvious at this point that you are an anthropomorphic reptilian who walks among us and you support Hillary because she is already your leader.
=^_^=

P.S.
From your article "At the polling place, hillary supporters were handing out bottles of water. Trump and Bernie are always angry."
That is a persuasive argument.

this is some low quality propaganda. you are taking a sanders delegate at her word despite direct evidence contradictory to her claims.

All four credential committee members (two sanders two hillary) actually. But hey it's fine that you can't/won't read. You've already shown that you prefer your Hillary propaganda to be devoid of any primary or secondary sources so I can see why you would prefer to dismiss this evidence rather than rebut it.

look there is simply direct evidence against these claims. when words go against evidence guess what wins? this is evidence 101


I seriously don't know what evidence you're even talking about?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 03 2016 23:46 GMT
#70566

Editor of Süddeutsche Zeitung responded to the lack of U.S. individuals in the documents, saying "Just wait for what is coming next"

http://twitter.com/mathewi/status/716771686482202625



Apparently they'll do US tomorrow or in the coming days.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 03 2016 23:50 GMT
#70567
evidence of the voter info email se sent to sanders people? disparaging remarks shes made against hillary on social media? actual lying page she created to tell people they have to pay a fee to convention? the echo chamber has no windows lmao
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
April 03 2016 23:53 GMT
#70568
On April 04 2016 08:50 oneofthem wrote:
evidence of the voter info email se sent to sanders people? disparaging remarks shes made against hillary on social media? actual lying page she created to tell people they have to pay a fee to convention? the echo chamber has no windows lmao

Needs verifiable sources fam. I'm not willing to make your argument for you, and without evidence you don't have one.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 03 2016 23:55 GMT
#70569
this will be going to court so you can wait on that. all part of the electronic record
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-04 00:02:51
April 04 2016 00:02 GMT
#70570
On April 04 2016 08:55 oneofthem wrote:
this will be going to court so you can wait on that. all part of the electronic record


I feel like this is the part where Hillary folks grab Hanlon's razor and start slicing. We'll see how it pans out though.

Hillary&co realizes there are going to be all the problems they had in AZ in WI and NY right?

I suppose you can blame WI on Walker and the R's but what's the excuse going to be for NY?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 04 2016 00:05 GMT
#70571
just fucking look at the evidence we have instead of droning on about sanders campaign damage control propaganda.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
April 04 2016 00:07 GMT
#70572
On April 04 2016 09:05 oneofthem wrote:
just fucking look at the evidence we have instead of droning on about sanders campaign damage control propaganda.

Give us some evidence honey. Your girl hillary is going benghazi 'scandal' on Berndawg and it ain't gonna work.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 04 2016 00:07 GMT
#70573
Look, oneofthem, I think I've figured out the sandernista mo: they keep on justifying everything he does so more people would hear about him. It won't matter what you say to them, they will be glad to be able to preach the truth once more. They will not tire, they will not relent, you'll just argue yourself silly. If you feel like you have an argument or material to present, do so and move on. The squabbling demonstrably leads nowhere, and actually makes them happy.

In other news, hints of Trump and Cruz working together to keep Kasich from winning in a brokered convention: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-cruz-work-block-kasich-ballot-open-convention-n549996
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-04 00:12:52
April 04 2016 00:11 GMT
#70574
On April 04 2016 09:07 Ghanburighan wrote:
Look, oneofthem, I think I've figured out the sandernista mo: they keep on justifying everything he does so more people would hear about him. It won't matter what you say to them, they will be glad to be able to preach the truth once more. They will not tire, they will not relent, you'll just argue yourself silly. If you feel like you have an argument or material to present, do so and move on. The squabbling demonstrably leads nowhere, and actually makes them happy.

In other news, hints of Trump and Cruz working together to keep Kasich from winning in a brokered convention: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-cruz-work-block-kasich-ballot-open-convention-n549996


Considering how much "but we needz teh evidence!" GreenHorizons gets (edit: rightfully so, btw), or sanders supporters in general, i feel it's justified and only natural that they don't go with some squabbling like "but there's all the evidence. the best evidence. Just you wait!".

That has nothing to do with "makes them happy", but all to do with "what i have to do, YOU have to do".

And that certainly is a fair point.
On track to MA1950A.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 04 2016 00:13 GMT
#70575
everything is already posted i don't want to waste time
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14161 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-04 00:14:34
April 04 2016 00:13 GMT
#70576
You can't keep harping on about the evidence that you say supports your argument, later say you can wait on it because its going to court, then get back on the horse about people ignoring the evidence you refuse to link you when asked.

You are wasteing time by constantly saying the same thing without changing anything. You wouldn't have had to post the last 3-4 posts if you'd just link to what your referring like people are asking you to do.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
April 04 2016 00:15 GMT
#70577
On April 04 2016 09:13 oneofthem wrote:
everything is already posted i don't want to waste time


So rather than just posting the alleged evidence, you go through 4-5 posts explaining that there's evidence but you don't want to waste time pointing it out.

Got it.
On track to MA1950A.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-04 00:23:30
April 04 2016 00:20 GMT
#70578
On April 04 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2016 09:13 oneofthem wrote:
everything is already posted i don't want to waste time


So rather than just posting the alleged evidence, you go through 4-5 posts explaining that there's evidence but you don't want to waste time pointing it out.

Got it.

We have evidence, we have always had evidence, we have the best evidence of all time. People are always talking about our evidence and because of that Hillary is innocent.

P.S.
The only 'evidence' he's posted is a WaPo blog that, while skimming through, stated that a hillary supporter was giving out water at one of the caucuses and therefore donald trump and bernie sanders (and by proxy their supporters) have their hearts filled with hatred.

It's funny how low oneofthem is stooping this election to desperately defend hillbot. We get it, she's a moderate who will do exactly nothing and that's what you want because you apparently stand to benefit from the status quo. Just admit that and quit trying to parrot that she's going to be the paragon of progress in America, because she is obviously not going to even try anything new.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
April 04 2016 00:24 GMT
#70579
I'm not even going into who's innocent (i don't believe either is) - i have a decently well working memory, and i remember how much shit GH got when Bill Clinton broke that "50 feet law" or whatever, stating that there's evidence but not supplying it. The hillary-otakus went bonkers until he finally posted it.

Saying "there's evidence" without sourcing it after being asked 12 times simply equals to "there's no evidence" or "you can't be arsed to argue, so why are you here in the first place".
On track to MA1950A.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 04 2016 00:25 GMT
#70580
On April 04 2016 09:11 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2016 09:07 Ghanburighan wrote:
Look, oneofthem, I think I've figured out the sandernista mo: they keep on justifying everything he does so more people would hear about him. It won't matter what you say to them, they will be glad to be able to preach the truth once more. They will not tire, they will not relent, you'll just argue yourself silly. If you feel like you have an argument or material to present, do so and move on. The squabbling demonstrably leads nowhere, and actually makes them happy.

In other news, hints of Trump and Cruz working together to keep Kasich from winning in a brokered convention: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-cruz-work-block-kasich-ballot-open-convention-n549996


Considering how much "but we needz teh evidence!" GreenHorizons gets (edit: rightfully so, btw), or sanders supporters in general, i feel it's justified and only natural that they don't go with some squabbling like "but there's all the evidence. the best evidence. Just you wait!".

That has nothing to do with "makes them happy", but all to do with "what i have to do, YOU have to do".

And that certainly is a fair point.


I think you missed the point here. You need two to tango.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
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