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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 22 2015 21:38 GMT
#51041
The "transition period" that Kwark is not accounting for would be cataclysmic. It would involve a vicious circle of unemployment and declining demand that would require at the least a massive injection of money by sovereign states to ride out. But given the last crisis, and the inability of almost every government in the world except the US to undertake another bailout on a similar scale, it's unlikely capitalism would survive the transition. Even if it did, it would require the massive redistributive tax policies of a socialist democratic state to cover the differences between the required steady state demand and wages.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 21:41:32
November 22 2015 21:39 GMT
#51042
Besides those numbers being very misleading (read: wrong) the cop covering crowd seems to fail to understand that it's not just getting killed but getting killed by the people we're paying to protect us that's the problem, along with the whole cops almost never going to trial/getting convicted when they do murder someone.

But yeah this will continue to boost trump in the polls, he says out loud what so much of the Republican party has only thought or said in like minded company or wraps in enigmatic language.

The Crime Statistics Bureau: It doesn’t exist. Not in San Francisco, where this fake data was supposedly sourced, and not anywhere else in the United States. It sounds real, though!

And while there already shouldn’t have been any question of whether Trump condones the actions of his awful fans (he himself said that yesterday’s protestor “should have been roughed up”), if for whatever reason you still weren’t totally convinced of Trump’s desire to capitalize on the racist fury ripping through the conservative base, he has kindly given you your answer.


Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 21:39:51
November 22 2015 21:39 GMT
#51043
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).



Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.
rip passion
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 21:44:39
November 22 2015 21:44 GMT
#51044
On November 23 2015 06:39 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.


Yeah, sure, if you change the words on the chart to something they don't say it adds up (good laziness on the part of the chart makers).
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 21:48:54
November 22 2015 21:45 GMT
#51045
On November 23 2015 06:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:39 Deathstar wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.


Yeah, sure, if you change the words on the chart to something they don't say it adds up (good laziness on the part of the chart makers).


It's straight up propaganda, nothing more. Seriously though Trump is working hard at earning those Nazi comparisons. Not to mention he is the preferred candidate out of the Stormfront crowd (though still not racist enough for some) so he literally has some modern self-proclaimed Nazi's supporting him and (coincidentally more republicans than any other candidate).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Atreides
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2393 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 21:51:34
November 22 2015 21:49 GMT
#51046
Having followed most of this income debate; while Kwark exagerates a bit to get his point across, I think a LOT of people seem to have this weird blocked mind set of "this is how it works". I mean the point that it is possible for an individual to live that way right now, does not say anything at all about whether everyone could live that way simultaneously and obviously if more people did it would change the balance of the equation.

I live in Alaska and this sort of thing is a lot more common in that pretty much everyone know people who work "non-standard" income arrangements. 2weeks on 2 weeks off is EXTREMELY common for "Slope jobs" in the oil industry. Commercial Fishing and other seasonal employment is also very common. Most of these have a shared theme that you work hard in often very unpleasant circumstances one way or another and exchange you make more money in less time and have more leisure time as a result.

Also, on the housing thing. While dirt floors and outhouses may seem completely outlandish that is just a reflection of peoples personal experiences. I lived and rented in a town for years (Homer, AK) that was on the road system had pretty much every modern convenience you could want etc. and "Dry Cabins" are very very much a relevant thing among low-income younger people to save money on rent. Little cabins/cottages with electricity and heat but no plumbing or running water and they in general saved you ~300$ a month on rent over a comparable apartment and you got a single residence building on top of that. I happen to place a high value on taking a real shower at home, (incidentally have spent a large part of my life using an outhouse and that's no big deal at all, fairly common up here for peoples recreational properties etc) so I never had any interest but had several friends who rented dry cabins and just payed a gym membership (still come out wayyyyy ahead) and went there every day after work, worked out and showered. It is really not that unmanageable.

Anyways this is about the first discussion in this thread that I thought mildly interesting. lol


P.S. Living Alone is definitely a luxury. I have lived alone my entire adult life because it is a very high priority luxury to me, but in almost every imaginable circumstances having room mate(s) of some sort or the other is a significant financial savings.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
November 22 2015 21:50 GMT
#51047
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Lol, that looks like some of the stupid shit that sometimes pops up on my facebook feed.

Guess it has as much merit to it, as well.
On track to MA1950A.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
November 22 2015 21:51 GMT
#51048
On November 23 2015 06:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:39 Deathstar wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.


Yeah, sure, if you change the words on the chart to something they don't say it adds up (good laziness on the part of the chart makers).


ooh interesting observation. But like GH says, it was intentional. The title is US stats but the source is San Francisco lol
rip passion
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23797 Posts
November 22 2015 21:52 GMT
#51049
On November 23 2015 06:51 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:39 Deathstar wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.


Yeah, sure, if you change the words on the chart to something they don't say it adds up (good laziness on the part of the chart makers).


ooh interesting observation. But like GH says, it was intentional. The title is US stats but the source is San Francisco lol


The source is some bigots ass really, they are made up numbers.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
November 22 2015 21:56 GMT
#51050
Every number can be wrong, but essence of it has to do with crime. You don't need to go all the way to stormfront for people to like that picture. The point is that Trump is going against PC culture.
rip passion
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22190 Posts
November 22 2015 22:02 GMT
#51051
On November 23 2015 06:45 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 06:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:39 Deathstar wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On November 23 2015 06:34 Deathstar wrote:
Posted on Donald Trump's twitter. Monday's going to be good (and his poll will rise).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/668520614697820160


Does this mean that police officers are neither black nor white?


Dude add the numbers up... White is non-police white, black is non-police black, and police encompasses the rest.


Yeah, sure, if you change the words on the chart to something they don't say it adds up (good laziness on the part of the chart makers).


It's straight up propaganda, nothing more. Seriously though Trump is working hard at earning those Nazi comparisons. Not to mention he is the preferred candidate out of the Stormfront crowd (though still not racist enough for some) so he literally has some modern self-proclaimed Nazi's supporting him and (coincidentally more republicans than any other candidate).

you forgot to mention his comment about requiring Muslims to be registered, akin to how Jews had to in Germany before WW2.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43808 Posts
November 22 2015 22:04 GMT
#51052
On November 23 2015 06:38 IgnE wrote:
The "transition period" that Kwark is not accounting for would be cataclysmic. It would involve a vicious circle of unemployment and declining demand that would require at the least a massive injection of money by sovereign states to ride out. But given the last crisis, and the inability of almost every government in the world except the US to undertake another bailout on a similar scale, it's unlikely capitalism would survive the transition. Even if it did, it would require the massive redistributive tax policies of a socialist democratic state to cover the differences between the required steady state demand and wages.

I am not advocating a mandatory 6 hour work week and never was. Jesus.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 22:08:51
November 22 2015 22:08 GMT
#51053
On November 23 2015 05:50 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
Trump leads Carson 32% to 22%, in a new poll by The Washington Post and ABC News.

And the real estate mogul leads the retired neurosurgeon 28% to 18% in a new Fox News poll.
...
In the Washington Post/ABC News poll, Rubio is in third at 11%, followed by Cruz at 8%, Bush at 6% and former tech CEO Carly Fiorina at 4%. In the Fox News poll, Rubio and Cruz are tied at 14% and Bush has 5%.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/donald-trump-leads-ben-carson-two-polls-election-2016/

Trump has been sent from providence. Go to bed Ben.

Why is Rubio such a large favorite get the nomination now guys with the bookies? Is it because people from other candidates will flock to him as others drop out?
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 22 2015 22:15 GMT
#51054
Rubio was always considered the 2nd best establishment candidate, behind Jeb. Now that Jeb's implosion has gone so far, Rubio is the top pick for the establishment.
The race is going to be heating up more soon, as primaries start and lots of money gets spent.
Trump has huge negatives; so when other candidates drop out, very few will shift to Trump.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 22:15:44
November 22 2015 22:15 GMT
#51055
On November 23 2015 07:08 LemOn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 05:50 Deathstar wrote:
Trump leads Carson 32% to 22%, in a new poll by The Washington Post and ABC News.

And the real estate mogul leads the retired neurosurgeon 28% to 18% in a new Fox News poll.
...
In the Washington Post/ABC News poll, Rubio is in third at 11%, followed by Cruz at 8%, Bush at 6% and former tech CEO Carly Fiorina at 4%. In the Fox News poll, Rubio and Cruz are tied at 14% and Bush has 5%.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/donald-trump-leads-ben-carson-two-polls-election-2016/

Trump has been sent from providence. Go to bed Ben.

Why is Rubio such a large favorite get the nomination now guys with the bookies? Is it because people from other candidates will flock to him as others drop out?


All the people telling the bookies Jeb was going to win told them they were switching to Rubio ~a month ago (some gave Bush longer to turn it around but they have almost all bailed on him now (outside of the Bush family network).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
November 22 2015 22:19 GMT
#51056
On November 23 2015 07:08 LemOn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 05:50 Deathstar wrote:
Trump leads Carson 32% to 22%, in a new poll by The Washington Post and ABC News.

And the real estate mogul leads the retired neurosurgeon 28% to 18% in a new Fox News poll.
...
In the Washington Post/ABC News poll, Rubio is in third at 11%, followed by Cruz at 8%, Bush at 6% and former tech CEO Carly Fiorina at 4%. In the Fox News poll, Rubio and Cruz are tied at 14% and Bush has 5%.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/donald-trump-leads-ben-carson-two-polls-election-2016/

Trump has been sent from providence. Go to bed Ben.

Why is Rubio such a large favorite get the nomination now guys with the bookies? Is it because people from other candidates will flock to him as others drop out?


3 things come to mind for me.

1. He has Koch brother backing + other wealthy patrons (winner of Koch brother's love gets 1B+. He is in competition with Cruz, who is not establishment and more right-wing). So Marco Rubio has the eye of the establishment + Koch brothers/billionaires.
2. He doesn't have baggage (but also no experience...).
3. He is cuban (he can cozy up with hispanics. Remember Mitt Romney once jokingly saying that if he was part Mexican the election would have been over.)

But number 1 is most important.
rip passion
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 22:24:41
November 22 2015 22:22 GMT
#51057
Regardless of the accuracy of trumps post the stats are readily available. Blacks commit murders at an insane rate compared to other races in America.

Edit DoJ claims 84% of homicides against whites are committed by whites.
dude bro.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43808 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-22 22:33:39
November 22 2015 22:32 GMT
#51058
You're much more likely to murder your family, coworkers or neighbour than someone unrelated surely.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
November 22 2015 22:37 GMT
#51059
On November 23 2015 07:32 KwarK wrote:
You're much more likely to murder your family, coworkers or neighbour than someone unrelated surely.

No doubt.

From 1993 to 2008, among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known, between 21% and 27% of homicides were committed by strangers and between 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims.
dude bro.
jellyjello
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)664 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-23 00:24:02
November 23 2015 00:23 GMT
#51060
On November 23 2015 07:19 Deathstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2015 07:08 LemOn wrote:
On November 23 2015 05:50 Deathstar wrote:
Trump leads Carson 32% to 22%, in a new poll by The Washington Post and ABC News.

And the real estate mogul leads the retired neurosurgeon 28% to 18% in a new Fox News poll.
...
In the Washington Post/ABC News poll, Rubio is in third at 11%, followed by Cruz at 8%, Bush at 6% and former tech CEO Carly Fiorina at 4%. In the Fox News poll, Rubio and Cruz are tied at 14% and Bush has 5%.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/donald-trump-leads-ben-carson-two-polls-election-2016/

Trump has been sent from providence. Go to bed Ben.

Why is Rubio such a large favorite get the nomination now guys with the bookies? Is it because people from other candidates will flock to him as others drop out?


3 things come to mind for me.

1. He has Koch brother backing + other wealthy patrons (winner of Koch brother's love gets 1B+. He is in competition with Cruz, who is not establishment and more right-wing). So Marco Rubio has the eye of the establishment + Koch brothers/billionaires.
2. He doesn't have baggage (but also no experience...).
3. He is cuban (he can cozy up with hispanics. Remember Mitt Romney once jokingly saying that if he was part Mexican the election would have been over.)

But number 1 is most important.



Actually, Rubio's ascension is a direct result of his outstanding debate performances, but good try to make any viable GOP candidate look ridiculous. I personally think that Rubio is a GOP version of what Obama was in 2008, and therefore it would be a grave mistake to nominate him.
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