US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1350

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

October 19 2014 16:11 GMT

#26981

It is not at all justifiable to not label things just because of "irrational fear" or "burden." If something is misunderstood, that misunderstanding should be corrected the proper way (through education) rather than hiding stuff from the public. People have a right to know what they are putting in their mouths. Whether or not someone chooses to eat a specific product is up to them - you're practically forcing people to eat GMOs by not telling them and that is just not acceptable even if GMOs are harmless. Considering the history of our nation and certain products, I think people are well within their rights to be cautious, and whether you think someone is being irrational or not is beside the point.

farvacola

United States18866 Posts

October 19 2014 16:17 GMT

#26982

The argument is not that we ought not label things, rather that to do so in the manner being presented in the available legislation ends up doing very little substantive "awareing" while doing a lot to push people towards more expensive items, basically by fear alone, made by those who fund these initiatives The point is that education must be part and parcel with the labeling initiative, and it should be obvious why such measures have not even been addressed by the GMO labeling legislation out there. They are not designed with the public's interest in mind.

nunez

Norway4003 Posts

October 19 2014 16:25 GMT

#26983

the commonfolk ignorance doesn't stem from the non-gmo agenda (or its funding). it was there latent, and the non-gmo's are trying to leverage it to eat into the gmo profit-share.

however gmo's are as dangerous as homemade gefilte fish, and the problem is the ignorant commonfolk and label induced panic. the commonfolk ignorance will give the non-gmo's an unfair advantage and disgrace free market.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

October 19 2014 16:26 GMT

#26984

I understand what you're saying, but it is hard to imagine education not being a main focus if the mandatory labeling of GMOs were to pass through the legislature. Lord knows the GMO manufacturers are not going to sit on their butts and watch as their profits crumble. If I remember correctly, after the UK passed mandatory labeling, there was a dip in profits for that sector, but profits have been rebounding since then. In the end they got the best of both worlds - labeling and education! Of course, Americans are generally dumber in regards to controversial matters, but we still should refrain from condescending the public by way of protecting their "interests" by hiding simple facts from them.

aksfjh

United States4853 Posts

October 19 2014 16:33 GMT

#26985

Education isn't possible in the current politically charged media and community environment.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

October 19 2014 16:36 GMT

#26986

Sure it is. GMOs have a ton of money, they've kept the labeling initiative down in California of all places. They'll find a way.

farvacola

United States18866 Posts

October 19 2014 16:37 GMT

#26987

On October 20 2014 01:33 aksfjh wrote:
Education isn't possible in the current politically charged media and community environment.

And this is precisely what ties everything together; a presumption that education will necessarily follow a labeling regime is to put the cart before the horse, particularly in today's political climate. Other methods of spreading GMO awareness must come first, or else you are basically turning tricks for the organics industry without charging anything in the name of spiting GMO producers.

nunez

Norway4003 Posts

October 19 2014 16:41 GMT

#26988

the commonfolk are too ignorant to make decisions and too ignorant to educate.
this leaves only one option: protect them from their ignorance.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

October 19 2014 16:43 GMT

#26989

Actually, I would hope that ethics comes before anything else, and even if not, I think you guys are highly underestimating the power of what money can do once there is a will behind it. Like I said, the labeling initiative has faltered here in California - surely, SURELY people are not as crazy as you are making them out to be.

Easily manipulated, sure, but that'll just work in our favor to spread the message that GMOs are not dangerous once labeling is mandatory and GMOs have to spend billions on marketing.

I can't tell if nunez is being serious or trolling. o_O Or half-half.

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

October 19 2014 16:45 GMT

#26990

On October 19 2014 01:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

Show nested quote +

Source

This Colorado bill is really fucking stupid. Any such labeling requirements need to be handled at a federal level. Not a state level.

Souma

2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts

October 19 2014 16:47 GMT

#26991

gasp, for once xDaunt does not promote states' rights on an issue.

farvacola

United States18866 Posts

October 19 2014 16:50 GMT

#26992

Everybody is a Federalist once in a while

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

October 19 2014 16:54 GMT

#26993

I'm not in favor of my state doing stupid shit that results in me paying more money for stuff for no good reason.

farvacola

United States18866 Posts

October 19 2014 16:56 GMT

#26994

Oh, and nunez is most definitely being sarcastic with his comments, but he's never been to Mississippi.

oneofthem

Cayman Islands24199 Posts

October 19 2014 17:11 GMT

#26995

On October 20 2014 01:45 xDaunt wrote:

Show nested quote +

This Colorado bill is really fucking stupid. Any such labeling requirements need to be handled at a federal level. Not a state level.

gonna get sued on interstate commerce

oneofthem

Cayman Islands24199 Posts

October 19 2014 17:26 GMT

#26996

On October 20 2014 01:03 nunez wrote:
the non-gmo agenda, exposing the commonfolk to the commonfolk ignorance, will succeed, causing panic and even worse: irrational abstention of gmo-food purchases.

the commonfolk should not be calling the shots, or a new kristallnacht is right around the corner.

actually the commonfolk likely won't even get a choice. the grocers and whatnot will just not stock stuff that need gmo labels.

nunez

Norway4003 Posts

October 19 2014 17:30 GMT

#26997

yes, but at that point they have already cast their ignorant votes. also that will probably reduce the spread of panic, as facing their fears through the labels on a daily basis will be a compunding factor.
the plebs are impeding progress in this instance, and that's no good.

also, on principle: the state should never nanny me, if anything i should be the state nanny.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

October 19 2014 21:18 GMT

#26998

On October 20 2014 01:05 farvacola wrote:
Follow the money; the organic lobby is present in a large way in every single state in which GMO labeling is being pushed through, with Vermont and California, the two states in which the labeling measure has generated the greatest fervor, being literal epicenters of the organics industry.

I'm surprised you didn't see this as some common-sense labeling effort that only mean capitalists would oppose. If you can easily see these efforts being driven by an alliance headed by organic producers, then there's hope for you yet. It's a small facet of a multitude of other efforts that try, and frequently succeed, to be dissociated from any group agenda and attached instead to such abstract causes as freedom, equality, and choice.