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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1253

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
August 26 2014 05:50 GMT
#25041
Never thought I'd actually be inclined to agree with an xDaunt simplification of an issue.
Writer
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24507 Posts
August 26 2014 06:23 GMT
#25042
On August 26 2014 14:50 Souma wrote:
Never thought I'd actually be inclined to agree with an xDaunt simplification of an issue.


Yeah it's making me feel funny inside... that or I'm having a stroke..........Nope not a stroke


"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 26 2014 16:36 GMT
#25043
To understand some of the distrust of police that has fueled protests in Ferguson, Mo., consider this: In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson — a city of 21,135 people — issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations.

A new report released the week after 18-year old Michael Brown was shot and killed in Ferguson helps explain why. ArchCity Defenders, a St. Louis-area public defender group, says in its report that more than half the courts in St. Louis County engage in the "illegal and harmful practices" of charging high court fines and fees on nonviolent offenses like traffic violations — and then arresting people when they don't pay. The report singles out courts in three communities, including Ferguson.

Thomas Harvey, who started the organization to provide legal services to the poor in the St. Louis region and is the lead author of the report, says residents, especially in Ferguson, have come to see the use of fines and fees as a way for courts to collect money from residents who are often the least able to pay.

"Folks have the impression that this is a form of low-level harassment that isn't about public safety. It's about money," he says.

The ArchCity Defenders report argues that this resentment is justified. Last year, Ferguson collected $2.6 million in court fines and fees. It was the city's second-biggest source of income of the $20 million it collected in revenues.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 26 2014 16:55 GMT
#25044
A fine general plan xdaunt. It's too bad there's not mechanisms for turning good general plans into good specific plans in the government; or at least they're not used enough.
But, that's on the long list of government reforms we need.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
August 26 2014 19:03 GMT
#25045
On August 26 2014 12:14 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2014 12:02 aksfjh wrote:
On August 26 2014 10:25 Introvert wrote:
Do we have to go over this again? Any President who does DACA automatically gets a mark down, for starters. But we've been over this.


I think you meant to say:

Do we have to go over this again? Any President who does DACA is Obama automatically gets a mark down, for starters. But we've been over this.


DACA has nothing to do with the border, but has everything to do with people that have already been here (illegally) for years. The border is secured, and that's your complaint. If you want to change your complaint to "Mexicans aren't being shipped back to Mexico in large enough numbers," by all means, do so.


DACA is an excellent example of the fact that Obama really doesn't want to send anyone home.

I've gone over the numbers on deportations and the like before with GreenHorizons, but the gist is that fun spins of language make things more difficult to discern.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-megathread?page=1142#22833

Additionally:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/

http://cis.org/ICE-Illegal-Immigrant-Deportations

I have to admit, Obama's played quite the game. Immigrant groups whine he deports too much, conservatives complain it's too little.

So again, you're not angry with his border security, but with the fact that he isn't deporting enough. It's not a matter about the border, it's a matter on immigrants already here.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 26 2014 19:05 GMT
#25046
States that have legalized marijuana for medical use have lower rates of prescription painkiller overdose deaths than states that have not, new research suggests.

In a study published Monday in the latest issue of JAMA Internal Medicine, researchers found that although overdose deaths from opioid painkillers -- like OxyContin, Percocet and Vicodin -- have increased in the U.S. over the course of the last decade, they were 25 percent lower in states that implemented medical marijuana laws than other states. The reason for the association was unclear. The study was led by researchers from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the Philadelphia Veterans Affairs Medical Center.

"Prescription drug abuse and deaths due to overdose have emerged as national public health crises," Colleen L. Barry, senior author of the study and associate professor in the health policy and management department at the Bloomberg School, said in a statement. "As our awareness of the addiction and overdose risks associated with use of opioid painkillers such as Oxycontin and Vicodin grows, individuals with chronic pain and their medical providers may be opting to treat pain entirely or in part with medical marijuana, in states where this is legal."

The researchers used death certificate data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to determine the rate of opioid overdose deaths between 1999 and 2010 in all 50 states. They then took a close look at the states that had implemented medical marijuana laws during that same period.

By 1999, only three states had enacted medical marijuana laws -- California in 1996, and Oregon and Washington in 1998. By 2010, 10 more states had also passed medical cannabis laws. Nine additional states have legalized medical marijuana since 2010, but those states were not examined, as they were beyond the scope of the study date range.

The study reveals that states with legal medical marijuana had a 24.8 percent lower annual average painkiller overdose death rate than states without those laws. It also shows that in the years following the legalization of medical cannabis, the association was stronger over time -- in the first year of legalizing medical cannabis, painkiller overdose deaths were nearly 20 percent lower in states with the laws than without, and nearly 34 percent lower five years later, on average.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24507 Posts
August 26 2014 19:15 GMT
#25047
In the recording, a quick series of shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then another quick succession of shots.
Forensic audio expert Paul Ginsberg analyzed the recording and said he detected at least 10 gunshots -- a cluster of six, followed by four.
"I was very concerned about that pause ... because it's not just the number of gunshots, it's how they're fired," the man's attorney, Lopa Blumenthal, told CNN's Don Lemon. "And that has a huge relevance on how this case might finally end up."


Too bad the police still haven't given their side of what happened so we could compare (like how many times the officer fired).

Alleged audio:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/michael-brown-ferguson-shooting/
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 20:56:03
August 26 2014 20:36 GMT
#25048
Context as to why the tensions in Ferguson and police militarization is such a foreign concept to me.

On the Canadian side of things:

Political leader leaves doors unlocked.
Drunk teen wanders in at night.
Nothing get taken, note left advising to lock doors.
Police investigate.
Teen goes "sorry bro I was drunk."
Victim goes "np bro"
Police go "it's all good"

Source
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 26 2014 20:58 GMT
#25049
That can happen in US too; in small towns typically. Maybe in quiet neighborhoods too; but mostly in small towns.
Canadian just has so much land and so few people it's all small towns.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
August 26 2014 21:01 GMT
#25050
On August 27 2014 05:58 zlefin wrote:
That can happen in US too; in small towns typically. Maybe in quiet neighborhoods too; but mostly in small towns.
Canadian just has so much land and so few people it's all small towns.


Yeah, the best part is it was that the victim was basically the Canadian equivalent of Mitt Romney.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 26 2014 21:26 GMT
#25051
On August 27 2014 05:58 zlefin wrote:
That can happen in US too; in small towns typically. Maybe in quiet neighborhoods too; but mostly in small towns.
Canadian just has so much land and so few people it's all small towns.


I'm honestly not sure my girlfriend's house, or any within a 100 mile radius of it, even HAS a functioning lcok.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
August 26 2014 21:29 GMT
#25052
On August 27 2014 05:36 Wolfstan wrote:
Context as to why the tensions in Ferguson and police militarization is such a foreign concept to me.

On the Canadian side of things:

Political leader leaves doors unlocked.
Drunk teen wanders in at night.
Nothing get taken, note left advising to lock doors.
Police investigate.
Teen goes "sorry bro I was drunk."
Victim goes "np bro"
Police go "it's all good"

Source

Yes, police never get too out of hand in Canada:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Police_Service#Controversies_and_allegations_of_misconduct

So let me correct Wolstan. When white bros encounter white cops in white Canada, chances of white bros getting brutalized are relatively minimal. When white cops encounter black or brown Canadians, chances are of getting brutalized increased.
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
August 26 2014 22:07 GMT
#25053
That can be paraphrased as:
Black community: "you shot 8 blacks in 4 years, you are worse than LA"
Police: "officers were acquitted, a little sensationalist no?"
Black community: "it's OK bros, just jumping on the Rodney King thing, reforms might be a good idea though"
Police: "We can be accountable to all citizens of all colours, seems reasonable."
........
22 years later
........
Sub40APM: "Black bros get brutalized all the time"
Wolfstan: "That was 22 years ago homie, we are chill up here.

EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
ElMeanYo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1032 Posts
August 26 2014 22:27 GMT
#25054
Remember all those 'missing' IRS Lerner emails? Looks like it was a lies:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/backups-for-missing-lois-lerner-irs-emails/

I guess they stalled enough to remove all the offending emails.
“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” ― Theodore Roosevelt
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
August 26 2014 22:30 GMT
#25055
On August 27 2014 07:07 Wolfstan wrote:
That can be paraphrased as:
Black community: "you shot 8 blacks in 4 years, you are worse than LA"
Police: "officers were acquitted, a little sensationalist no?"
Black community: "it's OK bros, just jumping on the Rodney King thing, reforms might be a good idea though"
Police: "We can be accountable to all citizens of all colours, seems reasonable."
........
22 years later
........
Sub40APM: "Black bros get brutalized all the time"
Wolfstan: "That was 22 years ago homie, we are chill up here.


the latest Toronto police shooting of a dark person was last year
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
August 26 2014 22:50 GMT
#25056
The officer stands trial next year, accountable for his actions.
The treating of coloured folk found to be acceptable, inquiry and reforms about how to deal with mentally ill on deck. Changes should happen like this, working as intended.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44448 Posts
August 26 2014 23:03 GMT
#25057
On August 27 2014 05:58 zlefin wrote:
That can happen in US too; in small towns typically. Maybe in quiet neighborhoods too; but mostly in small towns.
Canadian just has so much land and so few people it's all small towns.

Most small town Americans I've spoken to say that if they hear anyone near their house at night it's gun time.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
August 26 2014 23:59 GMT
#25058
On August 27 2014 07:27 ElMeanYo wrote:
Remember all those 'missing' IRS Lerner emails? Looks like it was a lies:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/backups-for-missing-lois-lerner-irs-emails/

I guess they stalled enough to remove all the offending emails.

Sensationalist news organization with a blatant right lean bend is claiming the IRS emails DO exist?! SHOCKING!

I'll wait until they actually appear.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 27 2014 00:05 GMT
#25059
On August 27 2014 08:03 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 05:58 zlefin wrote:
That can happen in US too; in small towns typically. Maybe in quiet neighborhoods too; but mostly in small towns.
Canadian just has so much land and so few people it's all small towns.

Most small town Americans I've spoken to say that if they hear anyone near their house at night it's gun time.

Guns for defense of home and family. I see no problem checking out possible intruder in the yard or house while armed. I doubt these small down residents are brandishing their firearms at people walking down the sidewalk.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 27 2014 00:10 GMT
#25060
On August 27 2014 08:59 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 07:27 ElMeanYo wrote:
Remember all those 'missing' IRS Lerner emails? Looks like it was a lies:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/backups-for-missing-lois-lerner-irs-emails/

I guess they stalled enough to remove all the offending emails.

Sensationalist news organization with a blatant right lean bend is claiming the IRS emails DO exist?! SHOCKING!

I'll wait until they actually appear.

Claiming the emails were lost and irrecoverable before House committees, investigators, and (previously) the inspector general is a big difference from backups exist but recovery is time consuming. This could very well be an obstruction of justice.

But if this presents no problem for you, perhaps Nixon goofed and should've claimed that the lost 18.5 minutes were lost and then changed his story to they were backed up in some large warehouse too big to sort through. Surely then it would just be sensationalist, biased media who would continue the investigation.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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