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Hong Kong9151 Posts
I don't normally browse Reddit, but when I do I don't expect to see a major North American ESPORTS tournament organization blatantly infringing my copyright.
In August of last year, I went to MLG Anaheim and I brought my camera along. I had lots of fun and learned how to use that camera while discovering a passion for taking photographs of progamers and fans of ESPORTS, something that has really made me feel a part of the community. I've gone on to cover a number of other events and always brought my coverage of said events here to Team Liquid. You can find that in the blogs that I have composed over the past few months.
Now, among the photos I took that MLG Anaheim weekend was this one of Sheth:
What a handsome nerd baller.
Notice in the link, copyright status is "All Rights Reserved."
Imagine my horror when I browse Reddit /r/starcraft and I click on an innocuous looking thread title, "Good or Evil?," and see this:
That is clearly my photograph, reversed, and used without permission on an MLG pay-per-view broadcast.
How did this happen? I have a theory. In the past, one ESPORTS organization, Liquipedia, asked me for PERMISSION to use that photograph on Sheth's Liquipedia page.
--- Log opened Sun Feb 12 18:33:16 2012
18:33 -!- Irssi: Starting query in QuakeNet with Koorb
18:33 <Koorb> Hi there itsjustatank are you here?
20:23 <justatank|bnc> yes
20:23 <itsjustatank> whats up
20:24 <Koorb> Hi there! I was looking for a good picture depicting Sheth,
and I found this one, which if I'm correct is yours:
wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/File:Sheth_at_MLG_Anaheim.jpg
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah
20:25 <Koorb> And I wondered if you were confortable with me uploading it on the wiki?
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah, that rezie looks weird though
20:25 <itsjustatank> resize*
20:25 <itsjustatank> did you keep the aspect ratio
20:26 <Koorb> I just cropped the upper side,
maybe your browser need to refresh the page without the cache?
20:27 <itsjustatank> oh that's why
20:28 <itsjustatank> well id kinda prefer the uncropped version but that's just taste
20:41 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:42 <itsjustatank> this is at 1000px longest side
20:42 <itsjustatank> how big do you need it
20:42 <itsjustatank> or small
20:42 <Koorb> I'd say, around 400px wide
20:43 <itsjustatank> ok
20:43 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:43 <itsjustatank> there it ids
20:43 <itsjustatank> is*
20:43 <Koorb> Looks great, thanks a lot!
20:44 <itsjustatank> no problem
My theory is that MLG just looked up Sheth on Liquipedia, found my photograph adorning it, clicked it, ignored this...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XZEH3.png)
... downloaded the photo, put it through Photoshop to reverse and resize it, and aired it.
MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all.
The fact is, however, that you didn't go through the proper legal and ethical channels in putting on production for MLG Winter Arena. I couldn't afford to buy your product this weekend because I've been out of work for a while now, so I wasn't able to see whether or not you pirated any other of my photographs; I can only rely on screencaps from Reddit, I guess.
I still haven't figured out what I want to do about this, but I am certainly really, really angry.
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rofl, i dont know what else to say. mlg kinda dropped the ball on this one.
makes you wonder about the rest of the player pictures they are using really ;D
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They need $20 so they can take your work that you did for free. MLG man, come on D=.
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Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
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Damn. Good eyes people. Yeah, I like MLG and all but this ones a pretty unequivocable goof
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On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
You don't understand how this works at all do you?
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Wow, that's pretty bad. You'd think they have enough of their own photos.
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They could just as easily say you took this picture at their venue that they allowed you to be in. So any photos that you take, they have equal access to to use. If they didn't let you in their venue, you would have never taken the picture.
(2) Evidence.—For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to
establish willful infringement of a copyright.
(3) Definition.—In this subsection, the term “work being prepared for
commercial distribution” means—
(A) a computer program, a musical work, a motion picture or other
audiovisual work, or a sound recording, if, at the time of unauthorized
distribution—
(i) the copyright owner has a reasonable expectation of commercial distribution; and
(ii) the copies or phonorecords of the work have not been commercially distributed
Still bad practice.
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"Imagine my horror when I browse Reddit /r/starcraft and I click on an innocuous looking thread title,"
sorry i somehow fail to feel the horrifying effect of this situation
you should feel proud they deem your picture worthy of using, i sure as hell would be excited. If u feel liek they stole from you (lol...) message them and say you dont allow them to use your picture. If they answer in a stupid manner or ignore you mayeb start complaining.
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If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time.
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I'm glad i didn't pay for MLG. I hope you get some compensation out of this, but most importantly public apology from MLG.
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Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene.
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There is a clear copyright on the photo so I think you got a good point of contention here.
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On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
doesnt matter if it's just for fun or not MLG should have had the curtisy to ask for permission to use that picture.
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On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
This reply is shamefully bad. You are not contributing anything useful to this thread and quite frankly it doesn't matter whether or not he is taking pictures for fun or not. It is a copyright infringement and while the community is quite relaxed on that issue, a big company like MLG should cover things like that.
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Copyrighting is a serious matter. Do not take this lightly.
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Hong Kong9151 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time.
It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done.
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I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
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I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to have to ask you. Are you going to go starving because of this? They are doing what a few tournaments have done and that is simply take photo's from Liquipedia. I feel like you are angry for all the wrong reasons.
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On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene.
Ah yeah man let's just allow major corporations to rip off whoever they want because they 'help the community'.
It's nice when we can choose when the law is applicable 
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It doesnt matter whether the picture has been acquired on their grounds or not for the copyright issue.
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Nice catch! Maybe if you threaten suit they'll give you the next Arena event for free!!
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On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene.
hes very calm, you appear to be the one getting hysterical about it. you also clearly need to take a lesson in how logic works, but oh well.
On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
sheth hasnt claimed he didnt want this picture taken, so how is what your saying relevent at all.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
he dont need to.
Sheth went to this event to play in a public tournament and to advertise products.
So he gave up his right for privacy in picture as long as he was there.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done.
The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything.
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oh man -,- what a basic mistake
Hopefully did it on accident, I can't imagine someone knowingly breaking copyright and show that material in front of thounsands of people, that'd be just so dumb.
On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything.
His material got "stolen" and he should not be allowed to complain about it in a reasonnable fashion?
The only people who will be seen in a negative light are the ones infringing copyright.
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On February 27 2012 03:25 Korlinni wrote:
They could just as easily say you took this picture at their venue that they allowed you to be in. So any photos that you take, they have equal access to to use. If they didn't let you in their venue, you would have never taken the picture.
(2) Evidence.—For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to
establish willful infringement of a copyright.
(3) Definition.—In this subsection, the term “work being prepared for
commercial distribution” means—
(A) a computer program, a musical work, a motion picture or other
audiovisual work, or a sound recording, if, at the time of unauthorized
distribution—
(i) the copyright owner has a reasonable expectation of commercial distribution; and
(ii) the copies or phonorecords of the work have not been commercially distributed
Still bad practice.
Pretty much this.
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On February 27 2012 03:28 yarkO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene. Ah yeah man let's just allow major corporations to rip off whoever they want because they 'help the community'. It's nice when we can choose when the law is applicable
Oh buzz off, you're just another one of the sheeple of TL. TeamLiquid is e-sports, everyone else can fuck off, etc. etc. isn't that how you forum-goers that hate MLG work?
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On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene.
Principles. Do you have any?
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Is this good or bad for ESPORTS ™?
Someone tell me what to think!
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17. DMCA Notice: MLG owns, protects and enforces copyrights in its own creative material and respects the copyright properties of others. Materials may be made available on or via the Services by third parties not within the control of MLG. It is our policy not to permit materials known by us to be infringing to remain on this Site and to terminate relationships regarding content with third parties repeatedly infringing the copyrights of others.
You should notify us promptly if you believe any materials on the Services infringe a third party copyright. Upon our receipt of a proper notice of claimed infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"), MLG will respond expeditiously to follow the procedures specified in the DMCA to resolve the claim between the notifying party and the alleged infringer who provided the content in issue, including, where applicable, removing, or disabling access to material claimed to be infringing or by removing or disabling access to links to such material. Pursuant to the DMCA 17 U.S.C. 512 (c), MLG has designated the EVP of Business Affairs and Development of Major League Gaming Inc. as its agent for notification of claims of copyright infringement with respect to information residing, at the direction of a user, on the Services.
From MLG's ToS. So instead of bitching on public forums, take it up with MLG yourself.
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You may be angry but I don't think that exposing this issue to a public forum would be the optimal way to solve it - and definitely not helping esports. You should have contacted MLG directly, in my opinion, to discuss a resolution.
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Lol, time to bust out the popcorn. Interested in seeing what unfolds....
Does anyone know just how far exactly the OP can take this?
I imagine the vod being edited at the very least but surely thats not the only thing
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On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything.
No thanks to MLG.
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On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything.
No, people WONT see him in a negative light. Look at this thread, the only people being seen in a negative light are posters like you, who feel that LEGAL COPYRIGHT LAWS don't apply to MLG just becuaes they're "helping" eSports? So what, its okay to screw over everyone else? Stop being so selective in your vision. Its really disappointing to think its okay to shit on the little guys.
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Ohh boyyyyy. This on top of the blatantly false advertising, with "Pro Circuit" written everywhere, some without "Arena" on the logo. Dude come onnnn. I don't think I can make it through another round of "I get it- I get it!"
See MLG, this is what happens when you go pee-pee on the community with fraudalent advertising and an unapologetic attitude. You set yourself up for people to not be the least bit forgiving towards you.
itsjustatank I mean, it seems to me the common sense thing to do from here is to e-mail MLG and ask them for some sort of payment? Keep us posted on if they blow you off or not. Personally I don't think they will, they don't need any more bad PR. Sundance or some other MLG guy will probly just come here and cry and ask you not to sue them because "They're in the red" (HAHA YEAH RIGHT!)
User was warned for this post
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Why not just send them an email and try to talk to them directly.
Making a thread about it and get this public with all the drama involved is not very smart (and not very "professional").
It just seems like you want to "hurt" them instead of just resolving the problem in a mannered way.
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On February 27 2012 03:30 k1mjee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:28 yarkO wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene. Ah yeah man let's just allow major corporations to rip off whoever they want because they 'help the community'. It's nice when we can choose when the law is applicable Oh buzz off, you're just another one of the sheeple of TL. TeamLiquid is e-sports, everyone else can fuck off, etc. etc. isn't that how you forum-goers that hate MLG work?
I actually support MLG and bought a ticket to the Winter Arena. I also tend to disagree with most TL 'sheeple'. You're just being deliberately ignorant about this and I strongly suspect you are 15 or 16 and live with that stupid sense of entitlement that the internet has 'blessed' on the next generation.
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So, itsjustatank, I"m curious what you want to get out of this now? Do you want an apology? Compensation? Something else? Or do you just want to let people know MLG used your photo without permission?
Have you contacted MLG yet?
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There's definitly a problem to adress here.
A company who want to be the face of starcraft buisness has to be exempt of any problem like this one.
Nice photo by the way. :o
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You gotta wonder though, if they used this photo without permission and without the proper license, how many others they used as well without permission. Only reason this was caught was because the photographer himself noticed it. Not really surprising they did this though. Just hypocritical when they want to be paid for their product but have no problem taking someone else's for free.
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all i hear is "i love money"
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On February 27 2012 03:31 yarkO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:30 k1mjee wrote:On February 27 2012 03:28 yarkO wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene. Ah yeah man let's just allow major corporations to rip off whoever they want because they 'help the community'. It's nice when we can choose when the law is applicable Oh buzz off, you're just another one of the sheeple of TL. TeamLiquid is e-sports, everyone else can fuck off, etc. etc. isn't that how you forum-goers that hate MLG work? I actually support MLG and bought a ticket to the Winter Arena. I also tend to disagree with most TL 'sheeple'. You're just being deliberately ignorant about this and I strongly suspect you are 15 or 16 and live with that stupid sense of entitlement that the internet has 'blessed' on the next generation.
8 years old, actually. I invented e-sports as well as Runescape. Jog on, now. <3
User was warned for this post
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On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
Seriously dude? Do photographers go to Iraq and ask soldiers on both sides permission to take their photos and post on the News? When I walk on the street and taking photos of ppl on the road, do I have to ask the Government for that?
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On February 27 2012 03:25 Korlinni wrote:
They could just as easily say you took this picture at their venue that they allowed you to be in. So any photos that you take, they have equal access to to use. If they didn't let you in their venue, you would have never taken the picture.
(2) Evidence.—For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to
establish willful infringement of a copyright.
(3) Definition.—In this subsection, the term “work being prepared for
commercial distribution” means—
(A) a computer program, a musical work, a motion picture or other
audiovisual work, or a sound recording, if, at the time of unauthorized
distribution—
(i) the copyright owner has a reasonable expectation of commercial distribution; and
(ii) the copies or phonorecords of the work have not been commercially distributed
Still bad practice.
This pretty much sums up what any competent lawyer will tell you. You are correct they should have asked you. No, you're not going to win a court case. If you really hoped to get anything out of this, you would have been much better off not making it public.
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Contact them, this is a matter of principle. A small thing, a big thing, they aren't supposed to draw their own lines. Send them an angry email and ask what they are going to do about it.
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in germany we have a law whereby you cant take photographs of single persons without their permission, you have to have to have more than 5 ppl on the photo, i think.
btw did you ask the pros that you can commercialize your photos of them?
MLG could probably just have asked you, but see is this way, probably some graphix guy just took the photo and didnt think about it because liquidpedia is basicly open source for SC2 :D
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On February 27 2012 03:32 minilance wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? sums it up hahahaha
Not at all. Know your laws before being ignorant. This was already addressed on the very last page.
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On February 27 2012 03:32 minilance wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? sums it up hahahaha
Sums up what? That both of you are not very intelligent? Maybe!
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Meh, mistakes happen. MLG is run by people and those people make mistakes. Did you bother to contact MLG or just come straight to the forums?
Edit: Perhaps MLG talked to TL to use photo's on the site and TL said yes. It's all TL's fault! =)
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On February 27 2012 03:32 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? Seriously dude? Do photographers go to Iraq and ask soldiers on both sides permission to take their photos and post on the News?
A few of them do, yes. What's your point? Were you expecting someone to say no, or were you asking a rhetorical question that backfired on you?
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btw reading the thread, so many people freaking out over it, i'd bet most of those posters are heavily anti-SOPA/PIPA/ACTA otherwise but feel the need to shit on MLG now.+ Show Spoiler + And for the record, i'm not a big MLG fan, i didnt pay now or in the past to watch it
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On February 27 2012 03:19 itsjustatank wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't normally browse Reddit, but when I do I don't expect to see a major North American ESPORTS tournament organization blatantly infringing my copyright. In August of last year, I went to MLG Anaheim and I brought my camera along. I had lots of fun and learned how to use that camera while discovering a passion for taking photographs of progamers and fans of ESPORTS, something that has really made me feel a part of the community. I've gone on to cover a number of other events and always brought my coverage of said events here to Team Liquid. You can find that in the blogs that I have composed over the past few months. Now, among the photos I took that MLG Anaheim weekend was this one of Sheth: What a handsome nerd baller.
Notice in the link, copyright status is "All Rights Reserved." Imagine my horror when I browse Reddit /r/starcraft and I click on an innocuous looking thread title, "Good or Evil?," and see this: That is clearly my photograph, reversed, and used without permission on an MLG pay-per-view broadcast. How did this happen? I have a theory. In the past, one ESPORTS organization, Liquipedia, asked me for PERMISSION to use that photograph on Sheth's Liquipedia page.
--- Log opened Sun Feb 12 18:33:16 2012
18:33 -!- Irssi: Starting query in QuakeNet with Koorb
18:33 <Koorb> Hi there itsjustatank are you here?
20:23 <justatank|bnc> yes
20:23 <itsjustatank> whats up
20:24 <Koorb> Hi there! I was looking for a good picture depicting Sheth,
and I found this one, which if I'm correct is yours:
wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/File:Sheth_at_MLG_Anaheim.jpg
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah
20:25 <Koorb> And I wondered if you were confortable with me uploading it on the wiki?
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah, that rezie looks weird though
20:25 <itsjustatank> resize*
20:25 <itsjustatank> did you keep the aspect ratio
20:26 <Koorb> I just cropped the upper side,
maybe your browser need to refresh the page without the cache?
20:27 <itsjustatank> oh that's why
20:28 <itsjustatank> well id kinda prefer the uncropped version but that's just taste
20:41 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:42 <itsjustatank> this is at 1000px longest side
20:42 <itsjustatank> how big do you need it
20:42 <itsjustatank> or small
20:42 <Koorb> I'd say, around 400px wide
20:43 <itsjustatank> ok
20:43 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:43 <itsjustatank> there it ids
20:43 <itsjustatank> is*
20:43 <Koorb> Looks great, thanks a lot!
20:44 <itsjustatank> no problem
My theory is that MLG just looked up Sheth on Liquipedia, found my photograph adorning it, clicked it, ignored this... ... downloaded the photo, put it through Photoshop to reverse and resize it, and aired it. MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all. The fact is, however, that you didn't go through the proper legal and ethical channels in putting on production for MLG Winter Arena. I couldn't afford to buy your product this weekend because I've been out of work for a while now, so I wasn't able to see whether or not you pirated any other of my photographs; I can only rely on screencaps from Reddit, I guess.
So i assume you approached sheth and asked him if you could take his image, including a signed contract which gives you full rights to it?
I also assume that you took the proper steps to secure your rights to this picture?
In that case go ahead and complain to MLG or sue them if you feel that it is warranted. If you did not, then maybe you should actually do some research before you slander someone (that is in regards to your thread title, if you did not copyright the picture with all rights reserved before you uploaded it to the internet you actually gave up your rights, therefor no copyright violation can by definition occur).
MLG basically took photos which were public on the internet for these profiles, pictures on wikipedia are almost always free to use, maybe you should have considered that.
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MLG fanboys are blind for a simple thing called principles, love this community...
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On February 27 2012 03:31 dafunk wrote:
Why not just send them an email and try to talk to them directly.
Making a thread about it and get this public with all the drama involved is not very smart.
the drama mostly hurts MLG, not him. it would have been 'nicer' and maybe more respectable if he had contacted MLG first, but he's not really obligated to do it.
it does sound like the OP was more from kneejerk rage than a calculated attack, though, but I'm not sure how much I care.
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Running to a public forum is about the worst way to handle this situation.
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MLG: "Let's flip the photo around, no one will ever notice."
I would ask MLG to take the photo down and request something in return. The least they could do is give you a pass to this and a future event. Maybe they could issue some apology with a link to your photography website. It's pretty damn sleazy for MLG to take your picture like that 
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On February 27 2012 03:34 renlynn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:31 dafunk wrote:
Why not just send them an email and try to talk to them directly.
Making a thread about it and get this public with all the drama involved is not very smart. the drama mostly hurts MLG, not him. it would have been 'nicer' and maybe more respectable if he had contacted MLG first, but he's not really obligated to do it.
I sincerely doubt this will hurt MLG at all.
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On February 27 2012 03:34 VillageBC wrote:
Meh, mistakes happen. MLG is run by people and those people make mistakes.
To be fair MLG seems to make a fair share of mistakes haha
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So, how many of you people here defending this guys stance have never downloaded music? Anyone?
KK, /thread.
User was warned for this post
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It's stupid and unfair, because the guy could just allowed the picture for the ticket for instance.
Instead of MLG using his picture without permission and the guy missing out on this, he could have seen it and MLG wouldn't be in this mess..
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On February 27 2012 03:30 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything. No, people WONT see him in a negative light. Look at this thread, the only people being seen in a negative light are posters like you, who feel that LEGAL COPYRIGHT LAWS don't apply to MLG just becuaes they're "helping" eSports? So what, its okay to screw over everyone else? Stop being so selective in your vision. Its really disappointing to think its okay to shit on the little guys.
Negative, It's not about MLG for me here. It's about the guy got free advertising regardless of the source of it. That's the truth, he just got free advertising, and is now putting himself out there telling people about it more, so now he is making his name more known. Problem is, he is bringing drama with it. People won't want to hire him more if he has drama, unnecessary drama.
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If you asked them to stop using it, they would probably stop using it. Stop freaking out.
Seems like a complete overreaction on your part here. It's a friggin' picture. Geez. Photographers like you piss me off so much. You. took. a freaking. picture. For that matter, did you get Sheth's permission to take that picture and try to profit off of it? Do you have written proof of that permission?
Get over yourself. Be thankful that your photo is helping the esports community.
If you want some sort of compensation or credit, talk to MLG. Why is there a thread on here about this? How exactly can TL help you?
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I read the "All Rights Reserved" clause (or how much of it I could find) and it only runs the licensing through Getty Images. What they say in the text seems to imply that it isn't "copyrighted" until an agreement is worked out between Flicker and Getty (not you or the person who wants to use your image), which seems like a huge bluff to scare other people out of using the images on the site.
In order to legitimately copyright something, you need to physically fill out the forms and pay for the copyright, not rely on a website who says that maybe they'll help you out if their partner feels like they can gain something from it (GETTY will license it, not you, so you don't own the rights to the picture, Getty does).
Additionally, the picture may or may not have been taken with Sheth's permission, so if HE wants, he can have it taken down and noone can have that picture. It also means your case would be dogshit in court, not that it wouldn't have been to begin with, since you didn't have a legitimate copyright to it.
Not too clear on the picture rights part of copyright law, but I'm pretty sure that it covers only the specific picture, not a cropped and reversed version.
TL;DR - MLG didn't violate any "laws" that could get them sued because of the process the photographer took to "protect" his image, which may or may not have even been an image the subject actually wanted taken of him. In a court of law, this would be thrown out immediately.
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This isn't thread worthy as it's such a minor (dare I say trivial) issue. The OP can easily take this up with MLG rather than seeking attention on the forums.
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On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene.
Looks like someone doesn't understand how this stuff works.
Too many kids on TL apparently.
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I deal with image copyright on wikipedia: this stuff happens all of the time. Although I generally would prefer if more people uploaded their work under Creative Commons licenses, some don't. And then tons of people go and rip it off cause it's "online" Especially in a case like this, it's fairly blatant. Not a google image search, but a page which LISTS it as being copyrighted.
MLG dropped the ball here, but I know a lot of organizations suck at this, and it is not the end of the world. However, they ought to cease using that one.
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On February 27 2012 03:31 dafunk wrote:
Why not just send them an email and try to talk to them directly.
Making a thread about it and get this public with all the drama involved is not very smart (and not very "professional").
It just seems like you want to "hurt" them instead of just resolving the problem in a mannered way.
just close the thread and go talk to them
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On February 27 2012 03:32 minilance wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? sums it up hahahaha
Just sums up that some people have no idea how intellectual property law works.
Very serious problem, considering that even most of the non-profit-websites must be careful about what pictures they use. MLG really ought to be more careful.
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Sure they could have asked you for permission, and there would have been no issue. But now that this has happened, are you going to do anything about it? Surely you won't press charges, right?
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On February 27 2012 03:30 Korlinni wrote:
17. DMCA Notice: MLG owns, protects and enforces copyrights in its own creative material and respects the copyright properties of others. Materials may be made available on or via the Services by third parties not within the control of MLG. It is our policy not to permit materials known by us to be infringing to remain on this Site and to terminate relationships regarding content with third parties repeatedly infringing the copyrights of others.
You should notify us promptly if you believe any materials on the Services infringe a third party copyright. Upon our receipt of a proper notice of claimed infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"), MLG will respond expeditiously to follow the procedures specified in the DMCA to resolve the claim between the notifying party and the alleged infringer who provided the content in issue, including, where applicable, removing, or disabling access to material claimed to be infringing or by removing or disabling access to links to such material. Pursuant to the DMCA 17 U.S.C. 512 (c), MLG has designated the EVP of Business Affairs and Development of Major League Gaming Inc. as its agent for notification of claims of copyright infringement with respect to information residing, at the direction of a user, on the Services.
From MLG's ToS. So instead of bitching on public forums, take it up with MLG yourself.
Why not take it to a public forum?
It is ok to have dozens of threads about rescheduling flights, stream feedback (you can do that directly too) etc. All good publicity but as soon as something negative pops up it shouldn't be public? Nuh uh...
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On February 27 2012 03:30 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything. No, people WONT see him in a negative light. Look at this thread, the only people being seen in a negative light are posters like you, who feel that LEGAL COPYRIGHT LAWS don't apply to MLG just becuaes they're "helping" eSports? So what, its okay to screw over everyone else? Stop being so selective in your vision. Its really disappointing to think its okay to shit on the little guys.
what copyright? Seriously that is the question I want answered before we go further in this discussion.
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I think we have a valid case here, watch out boys!
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Why didn't you just go to MLG first. There is no need to make a whole thread about it. You're just trying to hurt MLG's reputation and make them look bad. If you went to them first, they shut the door on your face, and were just assholes to you, THEN you make it clear to the community. If I needed a picture of Sheth I would probably do the same thing. It's a simple mistake, next time take it up with them. You're going to start an unnecessary witch hunt.
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On February 27 2012 03:37 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:32 minilance wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? sums it up hahahaha Just sums up that some people have no idea how intellectual property law works. Very serious problem, considering that even most of the non-profit-websites must be careful about what pictures they use. MLG really ought to be more careful.
most not for profit organisations just cite fair use or use a lower quality image as to not hurt the value of the original, this is clearly just a copy and paste job though :D
On February 27 2012 03:38 McKTenor13 wrote:
Why didn't you just go to MLG first. There is no need to make a whole thread about it. You're just trying to hurt MLG's reputation and make them look bad. If you went to them first, they shut the door on your face, and were just assholes to you, THEN you make it clear to the community. If I needed a picture of Sheth I would probably do the same thing. It's a simple mistake, next time take it up with them. You're going to start an unnecessary witch hunt.
why not? like a lot of people i decided to give mlg a chance and bought in to the ppv thing but people have a right to know about this kind of thing. its like arguing that copyright infringment cases shouldnt be on the news, people are interested when big corporations screw up. considering how vigilant mlg has tried to be about their own copyright this weekend through restreams, it just comes across as hypocritical for them to blindly take pictures they find and use them in order to improve a product they charge for.
i dont think there was any malice intended, just someone being a bit silly, but its still interesting.
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mlg seems to need their money really badly so don't be too strict with them xD
no srsly that is really really unprofessional by mlg
even more disappointed with this event right now
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I completely agree with what he's doing, you take the effort to copyright, they should take the issue to consult the photographer, it's called infringement.
Anywho that's my stance.
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On February 27 2012 03:36 AKomrade wrote:
I read the "All Rights Reserved" clause (or how much of it I could find) and it only runs the licensing through Getty Images. What they say in the text seems to imply that it isn't "copyrighted" until an agreement is worked out between Flicker and Getty (not you or the person who wants to use your image), which seems like a huge bluff to scare other people out of using the images on the site.
In order to legitimately copyright something, you need to physically fill out the forms and pay for the copyright, not rely on a website who says that maybe they'll help you out if their partner feels like they can gain something from it (GETTY will license it, not you, so you don't own the rights to the picture, Getty does).
Additionally, the picture may or may not have been taken with Sheth's permission, so if HE wants, he can have it taken down and noone can have that picture. It also means your case would be dogshit in court, not that it wouldn't have been to begin with, since you didn't have a legitimate copyright to it.
Not too clear on the picture rights part of copyright law, but I'm pretty sure that it covers only the specific picture, not a cropped and reversed version.
That's not how it works for photographs.
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On February 27 2012 03:33 djukger wrote:
in germany we have a law whereby you cant take photographs of single persons without their permission, you have to have to have more than 5 ppl on the photo, i think.
btw did you ask the pros that you can commercialize your photos of them?
MLG could probably just have asked you, but see is this way, probably some graphix guy just took the photo and didnt think about it because liquidpedia is basicly open source for SC2 :D
this law fits for NOT PUBLIC persons in a situation where they don't put them self into public.
If you play on a public tournament and are kind of know, in this community you are not a private person anymore.
You also go there, because you get paid to advertise products in public.
So you gave up your right on your own picture.
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On February 27 2012 03:35 MrHighlight wrote:
So, how many of you people here defending this guys stance have never downloaded music? Anyone?
KK, /thread.
You should be asking how many people have sold publicly the music they have downloaded.
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On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything.
Copyright infringement need not show damages. It's statutory, you either did it or didn't and pay the statutory fine. MLG clearly violated copyright law. Above and beyond that you must show damages.
Anyway - agree with your attitude in general which is why I try to never buy anything digital. Not hurting them by copying bits and bytes. And these music/software companies are getting thier name out there. win/win amrite?
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On February 27 2012 03:28 GertHeart wrote:
I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to have to ask you. Are you going to go starving because of this? They are doing what a few tournaments have done and that is simply take photo's from Liquipedia. I feel like you are angry for all the wrong reasons.
That's why we don't have LAN, becouse people like you and other people think that if something is on web it's free.
Stealing someone photos is crime. They gain profit from it. He should Sue them, for using and modifing his photo without permision for commercial usage. I know you may be thinking nah i don't wana do this... you should, you are photographer. It's your work... hard work. Your camera wasn't cheap i supose... or lenses... or other stuff...
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On February 27 2012 03:35 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:34 VillageBC wrote:
Meh, mistakes happen. MLG is run by people and those people make mistakes. To be fair MLG seems to make a fair share of mistakes haha
I changed my mind. I blame TL for releasing the rights to a picture they don't own for MLG to use.
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Holy shit people are ignorant. My mind has been blown.
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You were at their event. You will get laughed at for any attempt at legal action for this.
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This thread is stupid, I'm sorry (not really). You're acting like MLG has violated your rights as person. I can understand the sentiment of you feeling slightly irked. You should of just sent an email to MLG asking them why they didn't ask you for permission and let them know next time you won't be so kind and expect some sort of recognition or compensation.
Instead your going to sit on your self-righteous chair; pretending to have never illegally downloaded music, never watched illegally downloaded porn. Torrented or limewire'd anything.
Of course you most definitely never used megaupload or played BW on iccup server.
I can appreciate your sentiment, however making this thread was wrong.
Yes MLG should of asked you, am I upset that they didn't?
Not anymore.
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I love how so many seem to be outraged by this, yet have no problem with the vast amounts of copyright violation that goes on across the internet, which I'm sure many users of this site engage in. Yeah it sucks for you that MLG used your picture, but surely it would have been better to contact them privately and discuss the issue there.
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On February 27 2012 03:30 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene. Principles. Do you have any?
Perspectives. Do you have any?
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On February 27 2012 03:34 VillageBC wrote:
Meh, mistakes happen. MLG is run by people and those people make mistakes. Did you bother to contact MLG or just come straight to the forums?
Along with the OP not actually having a case, I want this question to be answered. Since you make no mention of contacting them, I find it unlikely you did.
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On February 27 2012 03:35 MrHighlight wrote:
So, how many of you people here defending this guys stance have never downloaded music? Anyone?
KK, /thread.
It's not even just that they took the image. It's that they took the image and used it FOR PROFIT on a a PAID STREAM.
It's pretty blatant.
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8748 Posts
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
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On February 27 2012 03:40 VTArlock wrote:
This thread is stupid, I'm sorry (not really). You're acting like MLG has violated your rights as person. I can understand the sentiment of you feeling slightly irked. You should of just sent an email to MLG asking them why they didn't ask you for permission and let them know next time you won't be so kind and expect some sort of recognition or compensation.
Instead your going to sit on your self-righteous chair; pretending to have never illegally downloaded music, never watched illegally downloaded porn. Torrented or limewire'd anything.
Of course you most definitely never used megaupload or played BW on iccup server.
I can appreciate your sentiment, however making this thread was wrong.
Yes MLG should of asked you, am I upset that they didn't?
Not anymore.
ill make sure to point out you torrented music while im robbing your house.... what
On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
almost like its a news story that teamliquid members might be interested in or something
sure he should go to mlg too, but he has every right to tell people about this.
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On February 27 2012 03:30 k1mjee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:28 yarkO wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 k1mjee wrote:
Oh get over yourself, it's a fucking picture. For all that MLG has done for e-sports including help TeamLiquid as well as every single one of you people with entertainment with their events, this isn't the end of the world for you and it won't destroy your photography career and/or hobby.
What do you want to do? Sue MLG for $100,000 because they don't have written consent from you? Oh, please. Someone just get Lee on here or something and give this guy a free Gold Membership or something so he calms down. This happens in e-sports every minute of every day with articles, news posts, and everything else that goes on in the scene. Ah yeah man let's just allow major corporations to rip off whoever they want because they 'help the community'. It's nice when we can choose when the law is applicable Oh buzz off, you're just another one of the sheeple of TL. TeamLiquid is e-sports, everyone else can fuck off, etc. etc. isn't that how you forum-goers that hate MLG work?
Well well, someone seems to really hate Team Liquid here . . . do I sense jealousy in your tone?
Team Liquid is probably the most fair, kind and responsible community site on the face of the earth, and yet there are still those select few pubescent teenagers stuck in their moms basement who think they score ego-points when they shit on this website.
Isn't it interesting how you claim that Team Liquid is a bunch of "sheeple", when you yourself have 240 posts here and obviously visit the site all the time? At least reading your post/bile towards TL was worth a good laugh.
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What everyone else is saying.
Contact them instead of making a post on a forum trying to stir up public opinion
If you want to be considered professional you should act like it. If they're smart they have a clause where they get equal access to material from their events. If not you handle it again, professionally, and if they try and play hard ball or ignore you, you go public.
This is a basic understanding about life that I assume people have yet to learn.
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On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
I've seen your old quotes. You can troll better then that. =)
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9070 Posts
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it.
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It seems like MLG really needs money right now. They will probably give you a 5$ discount on the ppv pass
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I find quite amusing that people use the "ITS NOT LIKE YOU NEVER DOWNLOADED A SONG IN YOUR LIFE AMIRITE", trying to have a discussion is pretty hard when a copyright infrigiment thread turns into a "DID YOU EVER PIRATE" thread..
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Hong Kong9151 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
If it needs to be in blogs, someone should move it. I didn't know proper forum for something like this.
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On February 27 2012 03:35 MrHighlight wrote:
So, how many of you people here defending this guys stance have never downloaded music? Anyone?
KK, /thread.
Naah, man. The more correct comparison here would be: "How many of you people defending this guy's stance have never _uploaded_ music?" Though this still isn't the real thing, as a music uploader doesn't make profit, while MLG does with this picture.
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United States994 Posts
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues.
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How about contacting MLG directly before tar and feathering them on TL?
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On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
haha, my thoughts exactly
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On February 27 2012 03:38 McKTenor13 wrote:
You're just trying to hurt MLG's reputation and make them look bad.
They did that all on their own my good man. Even if they did not do something legally wrong, which is yet to be determined by an actual intellectual property lawyer, MORALLY it is just a case of them issuing further abuse to our community.
MLG is a business; they are playing a totally different ballgame. A foul like this is just in such poor taste.
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8748 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:42 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net. I've seen your old quotes. You can troll better then that. =)
Not trolling, just being subtle. How about this: what is it doing here? It's a blog.
edit: Just to be clear, I think the OP has a legitimate issue and is rightly upset. I just don't see why it's posted here. Blog about it for emotional side of it and contact MLG for the professional side of it. This really has nothing to do with SC2.
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On February 27 2012 03:39 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:33 djukger wrote:
in germany we have a law whereby you cant take photographs of single persons without their permission, you have to have to have more than 5 ppl on the photo, i think.
btw did you ask the pros that you can commercialize your photos of them?
MLG could probably just have asked you, but see is this way, probably some graphix guy just took the photo and didnt think about it because liquidpedia is basicly open source for SC2 :D this law fits for NOT PUBLIC persons in a situation where they don't put them self into public. If you play on a public tournament and are kind of know, in this community you are not a private person anymore. You also go there, because you get paid to advertise products in public. So you gave up your right on your own picture.
Actually only to a very small extent, and depending a lot on the events in question. Wether celebrities have a right to their own image or not is still a very shady area and hotly contested in court quite often, but that is beside the point.
The picture was taken at an MLG event, without a lot of research i honestly have no clue if they reserved any specific rights to photographs or videos taken at such an event (though it is standard practice) so we honestly don't even know if a copyright to this photograph can even legally exist.
In addition we have no proof that if it can exist it was established properly. Frankly the OP would have been much better served if he had contacted MLG for an explanation instead of trying to go to a board where 99% of the people have absolutly no clue about the legal background.
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Em, atleast a compensation of MLG. But better sue them. Especially since their streams aren't free anymore.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it.
Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream.
Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
For someone in your position this probably isn't the most appropriate post...I highly doubt Team Liquid and Sheth wouldn't be as nearly successful or have any sponsors if they didn't allow photographs...I sure as hell wouldn't sponsor someone if they declined or opposed me snapping some photos.
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Russian Federation89 Posts
This seems like content for the pitchforks over at reddit. Contact MLG directly and don't be so dramatic about it.
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On February 27 2012 03:43 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net. If it needs to be in blogs, someone should move it. I didn't know proper forum for something like this.
The proper thing to do would have been to contact MLG first instead of whining publicly.
Anyhow, it is a little amusing to me MLG can't be bothered to take and use photographs from their own professional crew.
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On February 27 2012 03:45 IntoTheBush wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? For someone in your position this probably isn't the most intelligent post...I highly doubt Team Liquid and Sheth wouldn't be as nearly successful or have any sponsors if they didn't allow photographs...I sure as hell wouldn't sponsor someone if they declined or opposed me snapping some photos.
He didn't use that photo for commercial use.
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On February 27 2012 03:36 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:30 ch33psh33p wrote:On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything. No, people WONT see him in a negative light. Look at this thread, the only people being seen in a negative light are posters like you, who feel that LEGAL COPYRIGHT LAWS don't apply to MLG just becuaes they're "helping" eSports? So what, its okay to screw over everyone else? Stop being so selective in your vision. Its really disappointing to think its okay to shit on the little guys. Negative, It's not about MLG for me here. It's about the guy got free advertising regardless of the source of it. That's the truth, he just got free advertising, and is now putting himself out there telling people about it more, so now he is making his name more known. Problem is, he is bringing drama with it. People won't want to hire him more if he has drama, unnecessary drama.
he didn't got free advertisement because MLG didn't refer to him as the photographer. The only way someone could notice that it was his photo is through this thread.
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Yay, pitchforks! it was about time!
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On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
You know what, we can expand on you logic, and say that it is OK to restream and watch the MLG for free.
If you can take it, its free, right?
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United States4796 Posts
In any case it is a really good picture. o.O
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On February 27 2012 03:47 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here. You know what, we can expand on you logic, and say that it is OK to restream and watch the MLG for free. If you can take it, its free, right?
Whehe, i agree, restreaming in mirrored view is totally acceptable XD
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On February 27 2012 03:45 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it. Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream. Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff.
Hey a TL insider source just confirmed Hot_Bid, Wax and tree.hugger are the same person.
Checkmate.
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On February 27 2012 03:45 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it. Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream. Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff.
Got a good source that infact both parties asked for 10k.
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I understand your dissappointment itsjustatank, and I'm totally behind you. I'm thinking, that it's propably a case of rushed/hurried graphics layouting, rather than an intentional infringement on your copyright.
This does not make it any less embarrassing/unproffessional though.
Moreso, I find it hilarious how everyone is agreeing with OP on this, in these times of "Stop ACTA!" and "I'm not paying anything for music/movies/eSports/entertainment!".
This thread is a great example of why some sort of digital copyright revolution is needed. ACTA may not be the best solution, but something needs to be done to protect originators/artists/producers, in my humble opinion.
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On February 27 2012 03:45 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it. Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream. Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff.
My source also confirms that the OP asked MLG for 10k for the MLG/OP situation. Another sources informs me that I am handsome.
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On February 27 2012 03:46 frozenrb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:45 IntoTheBush wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? For someone in your position this probably isn't the most intelligent post...I highly doubt Team Liquid and Sheth wouldn't be as nearly successful or have any sponsors if they didn't allow photographs...I sure as hell wouldn't sponsor someone if they declined or opposed me snapping some photos. He didn't use that photo for commercial use.
And even if he did I don't think it's illegal to take photos at an event. If it is, paparazi media would not exist.
Moreso, I find it hilarious how everyone is agreeing with OP on this, in these times of "Stop ACTA!" and "I'm not paying anything for music/movies/eSports/entertainment!".
This thread is a great example of why some sort of digital copyright revolution is needed. ACTA may not be the best solution, but something needs to be done to protect originators/artists/producers, in my humble opinion.
You know that there are laws at this moment that work just fine to protect your ips. If he wants he can sue MLG and win. ACTA is something else.
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On February 27 2012 03:38 bovineblitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:36 AKomrade wrote:
I read the "All Rights Reserved" clause (or how much of it I could find) and it only runs the licensing through Getty Images. What they say in the text seems to imply that it isn't "copyrighted" until an agreement is worked out between Flicker and Getty (not you or the person who wants to use your image), which seems like a huge bluff to scare other people out of using the images on the site.
In order to legitimately copyright something, you need to physically fill out the forms and pay for the copyright, not rely on a website who says that maybe they'll help you out if their partner feels like they can gain something from it (GETTY will license it, not you, so you don't own the rights to the picture, Getty does).
Additionally, the picture may or may not have been taken with Sheth's permission, so if HE wants, he can have it taken down and noone can have that picture. It also means your case would be dogshit in court, not that it wouldn't have been to begin with, since you didn't have a legitimate copyright to it.
Not too clear on the picture rights part of copyright law, but I'm pretty sure that it covers only the specific picture, not a cropped and reversed version. That's not how it works for photographs.
US Copyright Office says differently.
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On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues.
Lol, looks like OP didn't read some fine print on his camera armed trip to MLG.
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On February 27 2012 03:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Not sure if you realize this, but you actually posted this on the SC2 General forum on teamliquid.net.
Always on point.
On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it.
Not sure it's wise to be saying things like this confirmed or unconfirmed.
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Just to be clear, the OP didn't get compensation or any credit whatsoever for the photo. I'm sure he would be have been fine if MLG had put up a small line crediting him.
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Free MLG lifetime membership for OP =D
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On February 27 2012 03:40 VTArlock wrote:
This thread is stupid, I'm sorry (not really). You're acting like MLG has violated your rights as person. I can understand the sentiment of you feeling slightly irked. You should of just sent an email to MLG asking them why they didn't ask you for permission and let them know next time you won't be so kind and expect some sort of recognition or compensation.
Instead your going to sit on your self-righteous chair; pretending to have never illegally downloaded music, never watched illegally downloaded porn. Torrented or limewire'd anything.
Of course you most definitely never used megaupload or played BW on iccup server.
I can appreciate your sentiment, however making this thread was wrong.
Yes MLG should of asked you, am I upset that they didn't?
Not anymore.
TeamLiquid Terms of Service
6. User Submitted Content
With respect to any content you elect to post on any area of the site, including blogs, forum comments and any and all other posts, you grant TeamLiquid a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use and display such content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology, without compensation or attribution to you.
TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
If you believe that content on our site infringes on a copyright, please see our DMCA policy.
Now this is assuming you did post this in SC2General. This all applies.
You granted Teamliquid.net a Sublicensable right to your content, and you accepted this when you signed up for this website.
The definition of Sub licensable is as follows
Sub licensable - is able to share the Content with its sponsors, affiliates and subcontractors..
So actually Teamliquid has all rights to your photo, this is assuming you did post this in SC2General, as a poster above me did say.
Actually Teamliquid could request compensation lol.
So OP stop being a complete doucher and offer a reasonable price, but now they probably won't give you a penny.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
That doesnt matter, when you are photographing people with celebrity status.
Like it or not, but Sheth is a "figure of public interest" same as a musician, actor or a politician. And just as paparazzi can photograph those ppl, you can photograph Sheth w/o having to ask for permission.
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not sure how you guys can be so serious with that apsolutely adorable picture of Sheth
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On February 27 2012 03:51 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Just to be clear, the OP didn't get compensation or any credit whatsoever for the photo. I'm sure he would be have been fine if MLG had put up a small line crediting him.
I have to agree with this. The OP never said anything about financial compensation. Everyone who's going after him for asking for credit taking the photo needs to relax.
It would cost MLG absolutely nothing to give this guy credit for the photograph, and that alone might be valuable to the OP as a reference for work at some point.
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Nice to know that at least Liquid does their business well ^^
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On February 27 2012 03:50 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:46 frozenrb wrote:On February 27 2012 03:45 IntoTheBush wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture? For someone in your position this probably isn't the most intelligent post...I highly doubt Team Liquid and Sheth wouldn't be as nearly successful or have any sponsors if they didn't allow photographs...I sure as hell wouldn't sponsor someone if they declined or opposed me snapping some photos. He didn't use that photo for commercial use. And even if he did I don't think it's illegal to take photos at an event. If it is, paparazi media would not exist.
Exactly. A lot of interweb lawyers in here. You know what OP, take to a real lawyer. You'll get better advice.
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On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues.
Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:50 yarkO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:45 tree.hugger wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it. Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream. Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff. My source also confirms that the OP asked MLG for 10k for the MLG/OP situation. Another sources informs me that I am handsome.
ESFI just posted an article quoting an annoymous confidant of yarkO who said "No way he's handsome. My god, yarkO is the ugliest person alive and he is also a genocidal maniac."
yarkO was never contacted in the creating of this story. Submitted to reddit. Also, give me 10k.
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1561 Posts
MLG should watch it's steps more closely now. If they want everyone to pay them, they should pay others too. It's not charity anymore.
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Damn, thats a good Sheth photo though. Very handsome nerd baller.
Idk much about copyright infringement, but isnt reversed images fair use?
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If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore. People calling them unprofessional is funny since everything in this world is out to rip you off, get over it, and shit happens.
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On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology.
the damage has been dealt, bad bad PR for MLG...xD
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yes, for future reference, ask for a reasonable price, if they accept, go on your way, if not then simply bring this into the public... You shifted way to early young grasshopper : (
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On February 27 2012 03:52 shifty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:40 VTArlock wrote:
This thread is stupid, I'm sorry (not really). You're acting like MLG has violated your rights as person. I can understand the sentiment of you feeling slightly irked. You should of just sent an email to MLG asking them why they didn't ask you for permission and let them know next time you won't be so kind and expect some sort of recognition or compensation.
Instead your going to sit on your self-righteous chair; pretending to have never illegally downloaded music, never watched illegally downloaded porn. Torrented or limewire'd anything.
Of course you most definitely never used megaupload or played BW on iccup server.
I can appreciate your sentiment, however making this thread was wrong.
Yes MLG should of asked you, am I upset that they didn't?
Not anymore. Show nested quote +TeamLiquid Terms of Service
6. User Submitted Content
With respect to any content you elect to post on any area of the site, including blogs, forum comments and any and all other posts, you grant TeamLiquid a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use and display such content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology, without compensation or attribution to you.
TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
If you believe that content on our site infringes on a copyright, please see our DMCA policy.
Now this is assuming you did post this in SC2General. This all applies. You granted Teamliquid.net a Sublicensable right to your content, and you accepted this when you signed up for this website. The definition of Sub licensable is as follows Sub licensable - is able to share the Content with its sponsors, affiliates and subcontractors.. So actually Teamliquid has all rights to your photo, this is assuming you did post this in SC2General, as a poster above me did say. Actually Teamliquid could request compensation lol. So OP stop being a complete doucher and offer a reasonable price, but now they probably won't give you a penny.
Please state where the OP asked for money, any amount. Or you're making up false information to support your venting and calling someone a "doucher".
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On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it.
Rek?
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On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology.
Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban).
HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG.
And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected.
If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore
OMG! OMG!
And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On February 27 2012 03:40 k1mjee wrote:
Holy shit people are ignorant. My mind has been blown.
The irony is strong here..
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If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright.
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Of all people its sheth lol...you should take notes from him and learn to just accept it and smile. Its a bjit unfortunate a)they didn't ask you b)didn't pay you etc but at the end of the day its just a picture and they're trying to push a game you love.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 VTArlock wrote:
I'm assuming you asked Sheth for his permission to take the picture?
He doesn't need too...not unless it was taken at a private event where it was explicitly stated that photographs were not allowed by the media or general public...if you're in public and at a public event you have no control over what photographs are taken of you.
You could potentially find the photo poster and ask it be removed from a site, but in this case why would Team Liquid want to remove the photo in any case? It's not a negative photo, it's not being used in a slanderous way and frankly it promotes the team for free.
Concerning MLG taking the photo...eSports is in its infancy regarding media ethics. It's a mistake and hopefully they can just learn from it and give you compensation and credit for the photograph. eSports really doesn't have true journalistic ethics on both sides, MLG and news sites that report on it, and it's going to take some time to get to a level of professionalism that exists in mainstream sports.
TL;DR, you can be photographed without your permission in PUBLIC (and likely are every day in the camera phone age) and MLG at the very least needed to site the SOURCE of the photo.
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On February 27 2012 03:54 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:50 yarkO wrote:On February 27 2012 03:45 tree.hugger wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 disciple wrote:
MLG asked for a price but OP said 10k. TL source just confirmed it. Actually, I think it was MLG that asked for 10k from the OP for the privilege of having his photo shown uncredited on stream. Just something I heard. You know, from sources n' stuff. My source also confirms that the OP asked MLG for 10k for the MLG/OP situation. Another sources informs me that I am handsome. ESFI just posted an article quoting an annoymous confidant of yarkO who said "No way he's handsome. My god, yarkO is the ugliest person alive and he is also a genocidal maniac." yarkO was never contacted in the creating of this story. Submitted to reddit. Also, give me 10k.
Your 10,000 (eSport) dollar check is in the mail along with my sources.
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If they can prove they altered the image more than 30% I'm pretty sure it's not copyright according to law. (i.e cropping a large part and reflecting the image like they have).
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On February 27 2012 03:53 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:51 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Just to be clear, the OP didn't get compensation or any credit whatsoever for the photo. I'm sure he would be have been fine if MLG had put up a small line crediting him. I have to agree with this. The OP never said anything about financial compensation. Everyone who's going after him for asking for credit taking the photo needs to relax. It would cost MLG absolutely nothing to give this guy credit for the photograph, and that alone might be valuable to the OP as a reference for work at some point.
how bad would the stream look if each photo had a photo credit underneath it.
answer: terrible
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ITT: A lot of members of the team liquid forums are also copyright lawyers.
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What music rights does MLG have? I heard Foo Fighters "Best of You" the other day on my friend's stream from Winter Arena
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I'm by no means a professional photographer, nor do I know any, but I find it hard to sympathize with the photographer on this issue. It seems to me that if you go to an event and take awesome pictures, you shouldn't guard them jealously after the fact but instead share them with the world and be happy whenever they pop up anywhere.
I can understand being annoyed that they aren't crediting you in any way for the picture, but if it were me I'd feel a sense of satisfaction that they're using a picture I took as part of their production.
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On February 27 2012 03:55 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
yes, for future reference, ask for a reasonable price, if they accept, go on your way, if not then simply bring this into the public... You shifted way to early young grasshopper : (
Ok, another post like this. Where are you getting your facts? Please quote or post a reference to where the OP asked for any money at all. Thanks!
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On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright.
lol no dude that's plainly wrong. Enough videos got removed from youtube because they tried that.
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Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this.
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On February 27 2012 03:52 shifty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:40 VTArlock wrote:
This thread is stupid, I'm sorry (not really). You're acting like MLG has violated your rights as person. I can understand the sentiment of you feeling slightly irked. You should of just sent an email to MLG asking them why they didn't ask you for permission and let them know next time you won't be so kind and expect some sort of recognition or compensation.
Instead your going to sit on your self-righteous chair; pretending to have never illegally downloaded music, never watched illegally downloaded porn. Torrented or limewire'd anything.
Of course you most definitely never used megaupload or played BW on iccup server.
I can appreciate your sentiment, however making this thread was wrong.
Yes MLG should of asked you, am I upset that they didn't?
Not anymore. Show nested quote +TeamLiquid Terms of Service
6. User Submitted Content
With respect to any content you elect to post on any area of the site, including blogs, forum comments and any and all other posts, you grant TeamLiquid a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use and display such content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology, without compensation or attribution to you.
TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
If you believe that content on our site infringes on a copyright, please see our DMCA policy.
Now this is assuming you did post this in SC2General. This all applies. You granted Teamliquid.net a Sublicensable right to your content, and you accepted this when you signed up for this website. The definition of Sub licensable is as follows Sub licensable - is able to share the Content with its sponsors, affiliates and subcontractors.. So actually Teamliquid has all rights to your photo, this is assuming you did post this in SC2General, as a poster above me did say. Actually Teamliquid could request compensation lol. So OP stop being a complete doucher and offer a reasonable price, but now they probably won't give you a penny.
TeamLiquid website has all rights on it, but original creator is still creator and rights owner, that part of quote never says that its forbidden to use from TL's ownership, but it is from private...
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Get in touch with MLG, no need to air your dirty laundry here. Isn't that how copyright concerns are usually dealt with?
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On February 27 2012 03:56 Twoinches wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:53 SCST wrote:On February 27 2012 03:51 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Just to be clear, the OP didn't get compensation or any credit whatsoever for the photo. I'm sure he would be have been fine if MLG had put up a small line crediting him. I have to agree with this. The OP never said anything about financial compensation. Everyone who's going after him for asking for credit taking the photo needs to relax. It would cost MLG absolutely nothing to give this guy credit for the photograph, and that alone might be valuable to the OP as a reference for work at some point. how bad would the stream look if each photo had a photo credit underneath it. answer: terrible
Then don't use the photo. At a minimum, just ask the artist/photographer for permission! TL did this and the guy agreed never asking for any money. Read the OP.
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op is kinda sad copyright a picture of seth lol ok...we are not there yet
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Yes, the est way to resolve this issue is to post about it in a public forum. This way no judgements will be made before all the facts are known.
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On February 27 2012 03:57 Karthane wrote:
Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this.
read his words
MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all.
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But if what if that picture of naniwa is copyrighted.
And OP just violated that copyright?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 27 2012 03:55 Xeris wrote:
Snafooo !
Did NASL pay the necessary fees to legally use the walk on music at NASL 2 grand finals?
Always wondered...
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On February 27 2012 03:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology. Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban). HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG. And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected. Show nested quote +If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore OMG! OMG! And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail.
Your caps show how ignorant you are. All this guy like to do is complain like the rest of the community...it's getting old. Clearly he's trying to bring drama up in the community. How about you speak to MLG first before bashing them....zzzzzzzzzz the human race amazes me when I read crap like this.
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It is blowing my mind reading the first few pages that this many people think it is OK to break copy write laws as long as you're more important than the other. They might not have stolen everything, but the fact they stole even one thing in a PAY PER VIEW is crazy. If you're going to charge people to watch your event in order to make money, you might want to actually spend money toward the product instead of carelessly stealing material.
On February 27 2012 03:34 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:19 itsjustatank wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't normally browse Reddit, but when I do I don't expect to see a major North American ESPORTS tournament organization blatantly infringing my copyright. In August of last year, I went to MLG Anaheim and I brought my camera along. I had lots of fun and learned how to use that camera while discovering a passion for taking photographs of progamers and fans of ESPORTS, something that has really made me feel a part of the community. I've gone on to cover a number of other events and always brought my coverage of said events here to Team Liquid. You can find that in the blogs that I have composed over the past few months. Now, among the photos I took that MLG Anaheim weekend was this one of Sheth: What a handsome nerd baller.
Notice in the link, copyright status is "All Rights Reserved." Imagine my horror when I browse Reddit /r/starcraft and I click on an innocuous looking thread title, "Good or Evil?," and see this: That is clearly my photograph, reversed, and used without permission on an MLG pay-per-view broadcast. How did this happen? I have a theory. In the past, one ESPORTS organization, Liquipedia, asked me for PERMISSION to use that photograph on Sheth's Liquipedia page.
--- Log opened Sun Feb 12 18:33:16 2012
18:33 -!- Irssi: Starting query in QuakeNet with Koorb
18:33 <Koorb> Hi there itsjustatank are you here?
20:23 <justatank|bnc> yes
20:23 <itsjustatank> whats up
20:24 <Koorb> Hi there! I was looking for a good picture depicting Sheth,
and I found this one, which if I'm correct is yours:
wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/File:Sheth_at_MLG_Anaheim.jpg
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah
20:25 <Koorb> And I wondered if you were confortable with me uploading it on the wiki?
20:25 <itsjustatank> yeah, that rezie looks weird though
20:25 <itsjustatank> resize*
20:25 <itsjustatank> did you keep the aspect ratio
20:26 <Koorb> I just cropped the upper side,
maybe your browser need to refresh the page without the cache?
20:27 <itsjustatank> oh that's why
20:28 <itsjustatank> well id kinda prefer the uncropped version but that's just taste
20:41 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:42 <itsjustatank> this is at 1000px longest side
20:42 <itsjustatank> how big do you need it
20:42 <itsjustatank> or small
20:42 <Koorb> I'd say, around 400px wide
20:43 <itsjustatank> ok
20:43 <itsjustatank> dl.dropbox.com/u/12650804/pics/IMGP1160.jpg
20:43 <itsjustatank> there it ids
20:43 <itsjustatank> is*
20:43 <Koorb> Looks great, thanks a lot!
20:44 <itsjustatank> no problem
My theory is that MLG just looked up Sheth on Liquipedia, found my photograph adorning it, clicked it, ignored this... ... downloaded the photo, put it through Photoshop to reverse and resize it, and aired it. MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all. The fact is, however, that you didn't go through the proper legal and ethical channels in putting on production for MLG Winter Arena. I couldn't afford to buy your product this weekend because I've been out of work for a while now, so I wasn't able to see whether or not you pirated any other of my photographs; I can only rely on screencaps from Reddit, I guess. So i assume you approached sheth and asked him if you could take his image, including a signed contract which gives you full rights to it? I also assume that you took the proper steps to secure your rights to this picture? In that case go ahead and complain to MLG or sue them if you feel that it is warranted. If you did not, then maybe you should actually do some research before you slander someone (that is in regards to your thread title, if you did not copyright the picture with all rights reserved before you uploaded it to the internet you actually gave up your rights, therefor no copyright violation can by definition occur). MLG basically took photos which were public on the internet for these profiles, pictures on wikipedia are almost always free to use, maybe you should have considered that.
That isn't true if the event is making money off of it. Since it is a PPV they are actually breaking the law using it without consent of the copy write holder. If there was a free stream using it, I don't think there would be as much grounds for OP, but hes complaining since its strictly paid for content. You can't just take something from the internet and use it to make money.
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On February 27 2012 03:59 TheRhox wrote:
who cares?
Pirating game is bad, bud stealing photo is good ?
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On February 27 2012 03:46 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:36 GertHeart wrote:On February 27 2012 03:30 ch33psh33p wrote:On February 27 2012 03:29 GertHeart wrote:On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. The damage has been done? You just got publicity to your name, your name just got out there. What damage? This is all positive towards you. You're making this worse, and people will see you in a more negative light than anything. No, people WONT see him in a negative light. Look at this thread, the only people being seen in a negative light are posters like you, who feel that LEGAL COPYRIGHT LAWS don't apply to MLG just becuaes they're "helping" eSports? So what, its okay to screw over everyone else? Stop being so selective in your vision. Its really disappointing to think its okay to shit on the little guys. Negative, It's not about MLG for me here. It's about the guy got free advertising regardless of the source of it. That's the truth, he just got free advertising, and is now putting himself out there telling people about it more, so now he is making his name more known. Problem is, he is bringing drama with it. People won't want to hire him more if he has drama, unnecessary drama. he didn't got free advertisement because MLG didn't refer to him as the photographer. The only way someone could notice that it was his photo is through this thread.
That's kinda the point, he is giving himself credit here, which would've been fine. He should have just contacted MLG first, let people know "Hey guys one of my photo's made it on MLG! xD" Instead of being so hurt about it. I have a family member who has their art stolen over and over. I understand you can feel frustrated, but you should have just taken this opportunity and capitalized on it instead of making it something negative.
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On February 27 2012 03:58 frozenrb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:57 Karthane wrote:
Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this. read his words MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all.
I did, he should just e-mail them instead of making a thread. I'm sure they will be more than happy to resolve this..well maybe they would have before he made this thread.
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On February 27 2012 03:57 Karthane wrote:
Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this.
I don't see how it's wrong to show us how mlg does it's business.
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On February 27 2012 03:24 jarf1337 wrote:
Someone isn't "taking photos for fun" if they are being so lame about their photo being used on a versus screen. You should quit pretending there isn't something at stake for yourself here.
I can relate to the OP the sense that one time I found one of my paintings (that I also did for fun, not money) on somebodys deviantart site with some cheesy lettering and a watermark on it claiming it as their own. I lost my fucking mind, I couldnt remember the last time Ive been so upset over something. You don't get to just steal other people shit and use it without permission. When I use somebodys stock images for reference in a painting I still contact them to see if it is alright, and send them a picture of what I used it for after Im finished. If I saw some of my own work being aired on a PPV broadcast I can only imagine how much more upset I would be. Even though they arent directly profiting off of the work, they are still using it, for free, during an event which they are charging for. You messed up MLG.
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Please, sue them.
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thebike
United States157 Posts
Holy shit, the amount of ignorance regarding copyright law in here is crazy. It's fine to have opinions on the ethical issues regarding the use of this photograph, but please don't make factual statements like "This is legal because..." or "this is illegal because..." when you've never studied copyright law in the United States.
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On February 27 2012 03:33 djukger wrote:
in germany we have a law whereby you cant take photographs of single persons without their permission, you have to have to have more than 5 ppl on the photo, i think.
btw did you ask the pros that you can commercialize your photos of them?
MLG could probably just have asked you, but see is this way, probably some graphix guy just took the photo and didnt think about it because liquidpedia is basicly open source for SC2 :D
And there is also a law, that enables you to take pictures of public figures w/o having to ask.
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On February 27 2012 03:59 The_Stampede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology. Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban). HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG. And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected. If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore OMG! OMG! And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail. Your caps show how ignorant you are. All this guy like to do is complain like the rest of the community...it's getting old. Clearly he's trying to bring drama up in the community. How about you speak to MLG first before bashing them....zzzzzzzzzz the human race amazes me when I read crap like this.
My caps show how mad I am. You post how ever shows how ignorant you are.
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just sue them as fast as you can. pay per view only! most fans arent rich guys in suit like guys from mlg( i suppose)
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LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap.
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On February 27 2012 04:00 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:58 frozenrb wrote:On February 27 2012 03:57 Karthane wrote:
Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this. read his words MLG, if you can charge the ESPORTS community $20 dollars to view a pay-per-view stream with no free option, you can certainly pay an employee to ask me for permission to use my photographs. Because it was to be used on a pay-per-view basis, and because you are obviously a for-profit enterprise, we would have worked out an acceptable licensing fee or you would have chosen perhaps not to use my photograph after all. I did, he should just e-mail them instead of making a thread. I'm sure they will be more than happy to resolve this..well maybe they would have before he made this thread.
They didn't e-mailed him. Whe he should ?
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the thing that's stupid about this thread is not that it isn't an issue. it is. but it's how childish you are going about addressing it. did you make any effort to contact MLG? i'm assuming that because your complaint on the internets didn't include MLG blowing you off, that you didn't. i googled "tl sheth" just to see what pops up, and your photo is on the front page, implying there could be an honest mistake at work here. it's pretty reasonable to assume they have one staff guy just collecting photos of everyone and not taking it very seriously. someone rushing through that could just pick up your photo because it is well done and moved on to the next one.
you haven't even given them the chance to talk about a deal with you, so why the hell should i feel sorry for you? i can see why it would concern you since you did go through the effort of enforcing the copyright onto Liquipedia, but seriously, you're going to cry on TL before you privately message an MLG admin about the issue? are you fucking retarded or something?
they could EASILY compensate you and now you have YOUR fucking photo over everyone else's on MLG and they're probably creditting you. except now you went and acted like an asshole on the internet so you will probably get your photo taken down, probably given minimal compensation, and then be actively avoided as a photographer.
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You really couldn't just take this up with MLG rather than posting it here and starting a shitstorm? You certainly have the rights to your picture and all, but I think your handling of this issue could use some work.
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On February 27 2012 04:00 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:57 Karthane wrote:
Why the fuck is this thread even necessary? Email them about it and settle it privately. It's really not a big deal, i have no idea why you are trying to bring attention to this. I don't see how it's wrong to show us how mlg does it's business.
Exactly. But some people like to make drama about idras new gf but on serious shit they close their eyes and bash the op.
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On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright.
Are there really people who believe this? It reminds me of those ROM sites that used to say "you can legally download this, BUT ONLY FOR 24 HOURS!"
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Why is there a thread on this? If you want somewhere to spew this stupid drama, go to reddit.
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On February 27 2012 03:59 ImHuko wrote:
It is blowing my mind reading the first few pages that this many people think it is OK to break copy write laws as long as you're more important than the other. They might not have stolen everything, but the fact they stole even one thing in a PAY PER VIEW is crazy. If you're going to charge people to watch your event in order to make money, you might want to actually spend money toward the product instead of carelessly stealing material.
I know. I also can't keep up with the people pulling statements from their ass, like "the OP wanted too much money! etc.." when the guy never asked for any money.
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On February 27 2012 03:57 KaiserReinhard wrote:
I'm by no means a professional photographer, nor do I know any, but I find it hard to sympathize with the photographer on this issue. It seems to me that if you go to an event and take awesome pictures, you shouldn't guard them jealously after the fact but instead share them with the world and be happy whenever they pop up anywhere.
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Movies Studios should be happy their movies are popping up everywhere. Newsbin, torrents etc. They should gaurd them jealously if they don't like that amirite? No, his camera and expertise is no less noble of an Enterprise than movie making they are both work and require resources.
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Professional photographers would be pissed.
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thebike
United States157 Posts
On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap.
OK, I'll be the guy who says you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so please stop saying random bullshit and acting like you have a law degree when you OBVIOUSLY don't. Jesus Christ people.
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United States994 Posts
To the OP, I shot you a PM. Would love to resolve this issue. Again, my email is aa@mlgpro.com
Thank you.
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On February 27 2012 04:03 thebike wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap. OK, I'll be the guy who says you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so please stop saying random bullshit and acting like you have a law degree when you OBVIOUSLY don't. Jesus Christ people.
He talks from his ass and is condescending. Standard internet people i guess. Don't worry.
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On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/25/Imitated_Image_Copyright_Case?comments=4
Look at this. Photo have same protection like music. It's art.
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What a bunch of idiots in this thread.
It's very clearly, legally, up to MLG to make sure the images they use are licensed properly. This is not up to debate, you children. Copyright infringement is a real thing.
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On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done.
"The damage has been done" ROFL.
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On February 27 2012 04:03 thebike wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap. OK, I'll be the guy who says you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so please stop saying random bullshit and acting like you have a law degree when you OBVIOUSLY don't. Jesus Christ people.
like clockwork, lol
allow me to repeat, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap. This thread is pretty funny honestly. Glad i opened it.
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On February 27 2012 03:57 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright. lol no dude that's plainly wrong. Enough videos got removed from youtube because they tried that.
Lol, I'm making the Lisa Mona, and just reversing the picture but making sure its exactly the same : )
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Looks like someone wants to cash in on some e-fame...
Also, I'd be interested in a response from a real lawyer practicing copyright law in the US, instead of all these armchair lawyers chiming in.
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dude its just a picture stop trying to get e-fame get over it.
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Disgusting... copyright infringement at its best.
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On February 27 2012 04:01 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:59 The_Stampede wrote:On February 27 2012 03:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology. Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban). HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG. And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected. If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore OMG! OMG! And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail. Your caps show how ignorant you are. All this guy like to do is complain like the rest of the community...it's getting old. Clearly he's trying to bring drama up in the community. How about you speak to MLG first before bashing them....zzzzzzzzzz the human race amazes me when I read crap like this. My caps show how mad I am. You post how ever shows how ignorant you are.
Hey mods please close this thread...just read for once and understand the level of derp in this thread. Why is it that when there is a drama thread every 10 year old shows up crying because mommy didn't buy them the pass or something stupid.
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On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap.
![[image loading]](http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0810/facepalm-face-palm-facepalm-demotivational-poster-1223672935.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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Can I just honestly ask.. Who cares?
This thread is just bashing on MLG. If the OP actually emailed MLG directly, s/he would of been given a compromise, I believe anyone would of given a compromise. I hope MLG just slam the door in their face now for public bashing.
Regardless, if you think you have a case on MLG take it to court, else don't make a thread with ill intentions. Because it's just more unneeded drama, and it's not like the SC2 scene needs any more of the shit.
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I don't understand why this thread is even allowed here. If the problem truly is about copyright infringement, the OP should talk to MLG about it and ask either for compensation or the retrieval of the picture. As long as he doesn't do that, he's just attention whoring (about a super generic picture).
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.... Its more about the arena being PPV and then have the audacity to use copyrighted material.
Not that he is personally upset of being robbed, and I do agree its a little arrogant of mlg - I don't know how people can see making a thread on an internet forum as a large commitment.
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On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright.
Alternation of the picture needs a photographer approval.
And its pain in the ass if you ask me.
At least in Poland (the pirate capital of europe) MLG would have to paid $800 to use that photo in the internet transmission even if MLG claims partial ownership due to some TOS.
Yeah photographers have their right covered in Poland.
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On February 27 2012 04:03 MLG_Adam wrote:
To the OP, I shot you a PM. Would love to resolve this issue. Again, my email is aa@mlgpro.com
Thank you.
Thread is done and turning into a shithole fast because we have internet lawyers who don't know jack about copyright law.
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Oh man, people in this thread are so funny.
You go itsjustatank, protect what is yours.
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This is just very sloppy from MLG, i personally never have problems when other people/organizations use content/data i created but some do and they have all the rights to feel so and MLG should have asked permission.
Oh and reversing it is even worse.... MLG still has a long way to go.
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MLG is human, they make mistakes. It says in their terms of service that you should contact them and file a DMCA complaint if they've infringed on your copyright. Instead, you decide to make a thread about it so you can start drama?
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On February 27 2012 04:04 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:27 itsjustatank wrote:On February 27 2012 03:26 nihlon wrote:
If you ask them not to use it they'll probably not use it anymore. Any more would seem like a bit of an overreaction and a waste of your time. It already aired, there is no way to ask them to remove it. The damage has been done. "The damage has been done" ROFL.
your name looks c_____e, what do you know about copyright....
oh violating it of course..
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On February 27 2012 04:06 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:03 MLG_Adam wrote:
To the OP, I shot you a PM. Would love to resolve this issue. Again, my email is aa@mlgpro.com
Thank you. Thread is done and turning into a shithole fast because we have internet lawyers who don't know jack about copyright law.
Please update OP with how it all turned out when you've talked with Adam.
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Photographer just needed to be given credit and he most certainly should have taken it to MLG first, not Reddit or Team Liquid, as that's how professional photographers who have complaints do.
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At first I thought, "well, MLG actually went to the trouble to mirror the photo, that shows that they knew they were doing something wrong, or at least suspicious."
However, after I looked at the picture of Sheth and Naniwa again, I don't think that's the case. I bet that rather than trying to evade copyright, someone at MLG saw the picture of Naniwa frowning and Sheth doing a happy smile, and decided that they could make a neat "ragetoss vs mannerzerg" storyline-promoting picture by having a frowning Naniwa glowering at a smiling friendly Sheth. Probably not suspicious after all.
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He went to an MLG event and took a photo, as MLG Adam says they have fine print for spectators saying they are allowed to use media taken on their premises by spectators and you agree to this when attending. End of, moron doesn't read fine print, whines on TL.
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On February 27 2012 04:05 The_Stampede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:59 The_Stampede wrote:On February 27 2012 03:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology. Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban). HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG. And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected. If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore OMG! OMG! And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail. Your caps show how ignorant you are. All this guy like to do is complain like the rest of the community...it's getting old. Clearly he's trying to bring drama up in the community. How about you speak to MLG first before bashing them....zzzzzzzzzz the human race amazes me when I read crap like this. My caps show how mad I am. You post how ever shows how ignorant you are. Hey mods please close this thread...just read for once and understand the level of derp in this thread. Why is it that when there is a drama thread every 10 year old shows up crying because mommy didn't buy them the pass or something stupid.
Ignorant much? Stop posting, a smart person like you must have more important things to do than babysit us.
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On February 27 2012 03:57 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright. lol no dude that's plainly wrong. Enough videos got removed from youtube because they tried that.
Youtube can take down anything they want from their site. As a matter of fact, a game reviewer I watch used to put his videos on Youtube before they took them down for copyright infringement. The intro music was copyrighted, but he had written permission by the owners to use it and brought it this up to Youtube. They still decided they weren't going to allow his videos. Videos being taken down from Youtube has no factual basis for providing copyright advice.
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I see why you are upset. But in reality who cares? Just Saying. However, I understand the reason you appear to be upset (someone stealing your work without permission). The best thing to do is write MLG or email the head honcho and just state your concerns for future MLG events.
Do not get out of hand with this, I am assuming its a simple misunderstanding. (AKA Dont make this a big deal).
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On February 27 2012 04:08 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:05 The_Stampede wrote:On February 27 2012 04:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:59 The_Stampede wrote:On February 27 2012 03:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 27 2012 03:54 Remaker12 wrote:On February 27 2012 03:43 MLG_Adam wrote:
You can email me directly if you would like to discuss this issue instead of posting a forum thread. My email address is aa@mlgpro.com.
FYI, this is not my specific expertise at MLG, but I do know this is covered in our TOS around tickets and via signage that is posted all over our venues. Pretty much this. If OP contacted MLG instead of posting it on TL he would have been offered a polite explanation/apology with compensation. Instead he pulls this publicity stunt. I hope he gets nothing but an empty apology. Sorry but you are a really bad person (I would like to insult you a lot more, but you are not worth my ban). HE HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL ON MLG. And I want to be informed about this kind of issues that aren't resolved as we all expected. If any of you agree with the law..idk what to tell you. If it's on the internet it shouldn't even be yours anymore OMG! OMG! And MLG wants people like this to pay 20$ for a ticket. SC community fail. Your caps show how ignorant you are. All this guy like to do is complain like the rest of the community...it's getting old. Clearly he's trying to bring drama up in the community. How about you speak to MLG first before bashing them....zzzzzzzzzz the human race amazes me when I read crap like this. My caps show how mad I am. You post how ever shows how ignorant you are. Hey mods please close this thread...just read for once and understand the level of derp in this thread. Why is it that when there is a drama thread every 10 year old shows up crying because mommy didn't buy them the pass or something stupid. Ignorant much? Stop posting, a smart person like you must have more important things to do than babysit us.
^ I agree
The derp is strong in this one
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On February 27 2012 04:08 mvtaylor wrote:
He went to an MLG event and took a photo, as MLG Adam says they have fine print for spectators saying they are allowed to use media taken on their premises by spectators and you agree to this when attending. End of, moron doesn't read fine print, whines on TL.
That means people can't whine about how MLG are the devil incarnate though!
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I think the Op was obv trying to get some attention about this, otherwise I think a simple e-mail would have sufficed. basically this is a smallish issue that is purposely overblown.
I don't think there is going to any legal action taken, but more or less a public shaming.
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On February 27 2012 04:01 roymarthyup wrote:
LOL at anyone supporting the OP.
First of all, he can sue all he wants, he will get nothing. No court or jury will reward him anything because its not like music or video cases, its a damn picture.
In fact, the courts will reward MLG money for legal fees and the OP will be forced to pay MLG.
You can say "legally its the same as downloading and broadcasting music" all you want, the truth is courts do not operate on 100% absolute legal grounds anymore. Its all based on emotions, which is how humans operate. And humans look at videos and music and can easily see ok this dude knew this was clearly a song or a video he didnt own without paying for.
But pictures? Dude any jury will think "umm MLG just found some picture on the internet and used it."
With music and video its easy to assume the downloaded KNEW he was downloading questionable content.
But a picture, who cares. no way to know who took the picture. And if you are downloading something off the internet you dont KNOW is questionable, then any jury will say you are not guilty because theres no way for you to know you were doing anything wrong.
What makes music and movie cases to easy is the fact that most juries will say because its music its easy to assume beyond a reasonable doubt the user knew he was committing a crime as he was doing it so it makes it easier to claim him as guilty. But with internet copyright its hard to claim someone is guilty when he just downloaded something, essentially replicated it, and the jury cannot be sure he even knew it was wrong which means there could be thousands of people committing the same crime unknowingly which means it is really a sort of entrapment, and in reality the jury would decide the true victim is MLG for being a victim of unknowing entrapment.
Instead, blame will be put on the owner of the picture. If you "own" that picture you shouldnt allow it to be "posted" on the internet by anyone without a clear clause stating the picture is owned and not available for unintended use wherever the picture is "posted"
So yes, this thread is pointless. Im sure someone will respond to me saying i dont know jack legally, but the fact is, the moment the OP gets one penny in compensation, is the only moment I will start to care about this crap.
lmao. Stop acting like some legal scholar, there wouldn't even be a jury in this case. Juries are for criminal cases, not civil suits. internet legal advice -_-;;
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Generally speaking, when you attend a private event they have ownership over everything that happens there; so cases like this don't happen. The photographer agree'd to MLG's terms when he went inside their venue, which states:
"The Holder grants permission to MLG to utilize visual (including film, video, and still photography) and audio reproductions of his/her name, likelness, image or voice in any manner whatsoever."
Given, I only have a press badge to look at, I'm assuming the Spectators looks similar.
Here's a link to the back of my badge if you want to read the entire thing: http://i.imgur.com/PrBVx.jpg
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I read the entire opening post as "Oh shit, here's my chance to lay my hands on some sweet esports cash."
But really though, why not just take this up with MLG directly?
Probably because somehow OP thinks he can benefit from the drama. Waiting for the MLG reply to this, if there will be any.
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Please close this shitty thread. itsjustatank is an attention whore who doesn't deserve that attention.
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what in the world op , so this guy can go around taking pictures of pro gamers and then sell it ?
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itsjustatank, do you have a mental deficiency? Next time, before you start a public witch hunt, how about you actually discuss it with MLG themselves? I'm convinced you're only in this for the drama and attention. I hope MLG shits all over you for bashing them like this, which could have been an innocent mistake.
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On February 27 2012 04:08 mvtaylor wrote:
He went to an MLG event and took a photo, as MLG Adam says they have fine print for spectators saying they are allowed to use media taken on their premises by spectators and you agree to this when attending. End of, moron doesn't read fine print, whines on TL.
Yeah....I love how MLG allows morons like this to take pictures and they use one so the OP shits his pants because he's 12 years old. Grow up kids, and maybe I won't hate these forums as much.
User was warned for this post
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On February 27 2012 03:51 Eschaton wrote:
Free MLG lifetime membership for OP =D
no this would actually be a good PR move.
lol.
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Sucks, probably just an oversight by whoever at MLG put together the image and assumed that images on Liquipedia had the same public domain or free license requirement for the vast majority of images on Wikipedia.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On February 27 2012 04:08 strongandbig wrote:At first I thought, "well, MLG actually went to the trouble to mirror the photo, that shows that they knew they were doing something wrong, or at least suspicious." However, after I looked at the picture of Sheth and Naniwa again, I don't think that's the case. I bet that rather than trying to evade copyright, someone at MLG saw the picture of Naniwa frowning and Sheth doing a happy smile, and decided that they could make a neat "ragetoss vs mannerzerg" storyline-promoting picture by having a frowning Naniwa glowering at a smiling friendly Sheth. Probably not suspicious after all.
To be fair, mirroring the photo actually makes sense. because Naniwa's photo is facing right, and it would be really odd to have both players facing right.
From a general design point of view, it would look better to have the competitors facing each other.
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On February 27 2012 04:10 The_Stampede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:08 mvtaylor wrote:
He went to an MLG event and took a photo, as MLG Adam says they have fine print for spectators saying they are allowed to use media taken on their premises by spectators and you agree to this when attending. End of, moron doesn't read fine print, whines on TL. Yeah....I love how MLG allows morons like this to take pictures and they use one so the OP shits his pants because he's 12 years old. Grow up kids, and maybe I won't hate these forums as much.
Now you actually need to get a ban.
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I like to hear how some of the 'piracy isn't stealing' people chime in on this one.
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I'm pretty sure the TL forum is where most legal filings originate from. Take the matter up with them, give them a shot to make it right, then go on a tirade if not. This seems alarmist. Maybe you aren't happy about PPV so seeing this opportunity you pounced?
I'm tired of it all. MLG has proven a couple of things.
1. They constantly mess stuff up (they get it, we get it).
2. They almost always make it right.
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On February 27 2012 04:10 Ipp wrote:Generally speaking, when you attend a private event they have ownership over everything that happens there; so cases like this don't happen. The photographer agree'd to MLG's terms when he went inside their venue, which states: "The Holder grants permission to MLG to utilize visual (including film, video, and still photography) and audio reproductions of his/her name, likelness, image or voice in any manner whatsoever." Given, I only have a press badge to look at, I'm assuming the Spectators looks similar. Here's a link to the back of my badge if you want to read the entire thing: http://i.imgur.com/PrBVx.jpg
yeah, i was sure something like this exists, though had no idea how to find it, good post
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On February 27 2012 04:06 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 03:56 Ercster wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, by mirroring the picture, they bypass your copyright because it isn't the same picture then. You can do this with movies to bypass their copyright. Alternation of the picture needs a photographer approval. And its pain in the ass if you ask me. At least in Poland (the pirate capital of europe) MLG would have to paid $800 to use that photo in the internet transmission even if MLG claims partial ownership due to some TOS. Yeah photographers have their right covered in Poland.
It''s statutory here too. Just a bunch of know nothings/MLG worshipers talking about what they do not know.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Closing this. MLG is contacting OP and I trust they will resolve this matter between the two of them.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
The biggest travesty here is flipping photos and messing up logos and facial (non)symmetry.
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