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On January 21 2012 21:20 TanTzoR wrote:
PS: a little trick of history xD George Washington, the first American president of history was a linear descendant of a frenchman.
This is the kind of fact that would be useful if the US as a whole refused to deal with France. Not at all true. There is just occasional disagreement on France's stance on certain issues. To use it here is really just silly.
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I'm American... I lived in France for a while and I've been there a few times, I love it. The people are really nice, the lifestyle is great, the food is good etc.
I've met more than a few Americans who like to bash on French people, and the vast majority of them have either never been to France or have only been to Paris. They just seem to buy into the stereotype that all French people are arrogant snobs, which I know for a fact is definitely untrue.
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On January 21 2012 21:51 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote:
Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis. And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
Hey hey now don't say we where overrun or (PWNT).
Actually we surrendered.
Because after the Germans got bogged down at the Nieuwe Maas river and other defensive strongholds.
They got impatient and decided to level Rotterdam (killing civs) to force our surrender.
We did not have the equipment to stop the bombers so we did the only sensible thing we surrendered.
With the limited resources we had (WWI rifles and bicycles) we fought bravely and we where actually able to halt the advance of the most sophisticated army at the time. I for one tip my hat to those fellows and do not like this misconception.
ontopic
I do not know what to think of all the stereotypes.
Tough i dislike the mindset of some country's.
For example.
The French and German for their inability to learn a second language like English.
I think it is because everything on TV is German/French if its English or another language it gets replaced so it is in their native language. Even if you take news interviews instead of providing subtitles they just replace the audio track it or translate by voice.
My classmate has been in Germany for a half a year to do a internship (at a school) there.
He had fun but he confirmed that everybody was horrible at English the only persons with a somewhat decent level of understanding where the IT guys he worked with.
So think of it when they come visit your country and they start talking in their language and expect you to answer it it just pisses me of so badly.
The whole God bless America Fuck yea attitude aside that's about all the irks i have.
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On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote:
Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
So let me just remind you once again: they started the war with Germans in defence of other country. In the same time, Americans put the trade embargo for both Poland and Nazi Germany.
They surrendered their gouverment, yes, unlike many european countries (like Greece, Poland etc.) But my country paid for this with a massive devastation that hit us for next 50 years.
French had to fouth on their own soil, with perspective of losing thousands of civilians, when Americans had bombed only...what...Havai islands?
Also, Vichy France declared neutrality in this war.
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On January 22 2012 00:58 LeibSaiLeib wrote:
First thing when i was young i learned about France was that their president refused to agree for cultural atonomy for the cultures in their land (Bretton for example). And hence signed a death sentence to some different languages/dialects and cultures.
EDIT: Correnting somone: Japan wanted to surrender 5 MONTHS before the 2 nukes, all USA wanted to show their power.
Japan wanted to fight till the end. We literally erased one of their major towns and they still fought on. They only surrendered after the second one and the threat of more to come. America and the soviet union where gearing up for the largest invasion imaginable in a modern age. Despite not having any armor and a wildly under armed and ununited army the Chinese held on against the japan imperial army. (with our help wonder how much they owe us for that)
On January 22 2012 00:39 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 00:34 Durp wrote:On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote:
I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Felt like reference this excellent post to begin mine. In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point? This is where the term "cheese eating surrender monkeys" came from. (thank you Simpsons). In terms of the "manly nationality-peen" post battle preceding my post- this is when the French got into the freezing cold water. Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them. Quite frankly, frivolous prejudice against other countries is pretty common practice, often due to jealousy or irrational biased. Either way, I couldn't care less if people hate the French, or if the French don't appreciate the negative stereotypes. If you don't like it, go eat some cake. I feel like we can take some simple military lessons from these examples. Islands are fucking hard to invade. Islands are really fucking hard to invade. You do not ever invade Russia via land from the west.
America did a really good job of it during the pacific side of the war. You know the one that America fought basically by themselves while fighting off the nazies in europe? The reason why the UK was never invadable was the superiority of the British navy. Don't bash Canada also they are our best bros in the world. Plus all modern military doctrine involves letting Russia invade some poor fool and destroy their forces in the field. France has been a huge thorn in the side of America. They where a huge problem with them thinking that their candidate should be the new head of the UN when america who funds half the thing wants their candidate at the top of the un.
And I think that the french are the only counter that we haven't had a war with. Whats up with that? (french Indian war being more of a Canadian american war then anything else)
On January 22 2012 01:28 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote:
Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak. So let me just remind you once again: they started the war with Germans in defence of other country. In the same time, Americans put an trade embargo for both Poland and Nazi Germany. They surrendered their gouverment, yes, unlike many european countries (like Greece, Poland etc.) But my country paid for this with a massive devastation that hit us for next 50 years. French had to fouth on their own soil, with perspective of losing thousands of civilians, when Americans had bombed only...what...Havai islands? Also, Vichy France declared neutrality in this war.
lol vichy France being neutral. It was a puppet state and hitler pulled the strings however he wanted. The japanese attacked our major fleet in port before declaring war and invaded all our friends. It's hawaii btw (really not even an excuse on that one just sound it out and its easy) and alaska was also invaded (the islands near the end of the chain are closer to tokyo then the capital of AK to be fair). Not to mention mexico was getting frisky with the nazies.
I think its really more of that France not going into Iraq was a slap in the face from freeing their country in WW2. Like what where the French thinking after WW2 that the lady they shipped over would be enough for america?
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Last nights "American Dad" (TV show) episode...
"Hows your French Toast?"
"Smelly and ungrateful, but my American toast is fantastic."
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United States22883 Posts
On January 22 2012 00:12 Cirqueenflex wrote:
Furthermore, French seems to remind americans of Canada, and americans seem to like to make fun of Canada.
French Canadians are a completely different beast. Quebec has a lot of its own problems that I'm sure people from BC/Ontario can elaborate on. They've been thinking Montreal is about to become the capital of the world since the 1970s.
Kazius' post seems pretty familiar. A lot of it is due to ignorance of many Americans but in large part, as others have said, it's a general arrogance of Parisians that creates the stereotype. It's not a friendly city unless you speak French and at a speed that's acceptable to them. If you go to most other countries and try to speak their language, you'll come off as endearing to them.
The WW2 comments are almost entirely driven out of ignorance though.
Also, it's funny but I don't think Bush ever said the entrepeneur comment.
In more modern times, there is an issue of France and a few other Security Council countries doddling along while major crises are happening. It's what gives strength to NATO.
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On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote:
Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
If you were not a jew, German occupation wasn't that bad. I think that Sartre said something like "nous n'avons jamais été aussi libres que sous l'Occupation" lol.
Definitly not comparable with the situation in the Eastern countries like Poland.
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On January 22 2012 01:29 IrOnKaL wrote:
Last nights "American Dad" (TV show) episode...
"Hows your French Toast?"
"Smelly and ungrateful, but my American toast is fantastic."
Fantastic.
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On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote:Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default). But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known. The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis. Edit : found btw : http://aproposfrance-usa.blogspot.com/
I dont hate frenchs because of the history. I hate them because they every time speak in their language and are arrogant.
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[QUOTE]On January 22 2012 01:29 Jibba wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 22 2012 00:12 Cirqueenflex wrote:
Also, it's funny but I don't think Bush ever said the entrepeneur comment.[/QUOTE]
Google it man, google it. That shouldn't be too hard 
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On January 22 2012 01:34 D4V3Z02 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote:Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default). But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known. The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis. Edit : found btw : http://aproposfrance-usa.blogspot.com/ I dont hate frenchs because of the history. I hate them because they every time speak in their language and are arrogant.
omg so do you !
i do not agree on the arrogant part tough on both sides but fuck me you like your german/french.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 22 2012 01:34 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 01:29 Jibba wrote:
Also, it's funny but I don't think Bush ever said the entrepeneur comment. Google it man, google it. That shouldn't be too hard
Toi aussi.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
Claim: President George W. Bush proclaimed, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."
Status: False.
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So this is my first post here. Not to generalized but we (the french people) are kind of arrogant. That part is true. But like in every country there a lot of dumb people and good people.
Paris is sadly one of the worst if not the worst for the amability of people, even in the rest of france we dont like parisian.
As for our inability to speak english, well i'm in my third year of university and the level of english teaching is so ridiculously low that i'm not even surprised we suck at it. And i'm in university, think about the people who dont get access to this kind of teaching ! Its even worse....
As for the whole armenian law story, to be honest its just a plot by sarkozy to get the armenian community vote for the next election. This kind of law come up every goddamn election! And well for the people i know, even the armenian, they dont really care for it.
To me the bashing is fair game, we bash the other country a lot and thats what you get when your president do a lot of stupid shit. I mean look how people bashed the american when bush was president. Well we have our bush now and people bash us a little more than before.
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Born and raised in America and lived here my whole life, but I've traveled to Europe many times before (and I'm half Swedish so I guess I'm more familiar with European culture than the average American).
Visited Paris for the first time last summer and it was one of the best trips of my life. Kept hearing that Parisians would be arrogant, stuck-up, and rude but I didn't see any of that (okay except for maybe a few angry waiters... but it's not like you have to tip in Europe anyway). Sure they're not as outgoing as in Italy, but compared to NYC the people still felt a lot more laid-back and warm in general. In fact Paris was one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen, from the people to the culture to the buildings to the food-- I have nothing but respect for the French people.
While it's true that most of the anti-French sentiments come from conservative Americans (god-fearing hillbillies if you will) who have never left their home town and listen to Fox news all day, I've heard some educated friends "poke fun" at France (and most of Europe for that matter) for not being capitalist enough or for eating too much cheese. But again I don't think they've ever been out of the country.
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On January 21 2012 21:42 hZi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote:
There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it. You joking right ?
France was the main responsbly country for forcing the financial damage completely on germany after WW1 (because letting 1 country pay for the full war is not gonna cause any problems, right?), and pretty much treated german citizens extremely badly (slavelike) in a lot of terrotories. This is still considered one of the biggest reasons why people ended up in the mental state to support national socialism/hitler leading up to WW2.
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On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote:
Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people.
Like in every country.
Education and political system suck hard,
Having been to the United States as part of a school exchange program, I don't think we're that bad, altough there certainly is romm for improvment.
and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy.
Like in every country
Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
I think saying "French are arrogant" is as true as saying "German are narrow-minded" or "Belgians are stupid" It's more of a oversimplification for dumbass people than of anything else.
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people.
Like in every country.
And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
Because of the clichés people who never visited have in mind.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
Stop taking people for autists... -____-. There were people who wanted war, there were prople who didn't want it - the people who did won, like every time.
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Oh come on what the fuck is this thread
I see a far more concentrated bashing of the US by Europeans as a whole than the US bashing france.
Btw I've been to France, it's an amazing fucking country.
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I think that for a lot of people here in the US, its just a common theme of jokes. Of course some people internalize these themes and become biased, but I want to put this in perspective. Less than 60 years ago the US still had large areas with segregation. Just 60 years ago a lot of individual states actually sponsored racism. I personally think that the biggest problem we are facing as a nation (racism wise) is nationalistic superiority and hate of muslims among the elderly and uneducated. My grandfather, who was an English professor for most of his life, and is one of the most liberal people I know, doesn't like muslims and thinks that they all live in the middle-east.
I just wanted to say that, though Americans are by no means perfect, have shown significant improvement over the last several decades.
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The reason France bashing exists in the US is because the French government occasionally listens to the population, creating inconveniences for the US administration. France is a western democracy, in fact the FIRST western democracy, so it is harder to sell the idea that it doesn't matter to the American population in the US.
It basically started in earnest when the US was assembling the 'coalition of the willing' in order to invade Iraq in 2002. Although the majority of the populations of most countries worldwide (and ironically, especially those within the coalition) were overwhelmingly against the prospect of their country participating, France was a security council permanent member and a historical US ally, and refused to support the war.
Of course this made the war on false pretexts look bad for the US administration, so they started making up petty insults about how France was inferior in x y z ways to save face, and hide the fact that it was a case of a government listening to the fact that it's population was against the war.
This was a huge media capaign, and almost overnight you'd see every network picking up on the act. Everything from them being lazy, to eating the wrong foods, to being communist, to having no 'entrepeneurial spirit' (presumably an insult to hardcore capitalists). I guess the bashing persisted in some form or another until now.
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EPT
