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Facts of TSL Coach Lee vs FruitDealer/Trickster - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
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sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
August 04 2011 16:47 GMT
#41
Tester and Fd are a shame now. FD cant even baneling bust properly last time I saw him. 6 pooling for FD has better odds for him to win.
BlueSpace
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2182 Posts
August 04 2011 16:47 GMT
#42
I understand the story in the following way:

TSL had a contract with FD and Trickster. They both lost interest in the team and stopped practicing/participating. Coach Lee got angry and they eventually left the team. Due to their lack of participation Coach Lee decided that in his opinion he had no obligation to pay them for the last month prior to them leaving.
The players complained to the player association and while it was acknowledged that the behaviour of Trickster and FD was questionable, they asked TSL to uphold their contractual agreements. Coach Lee disagrees and leaves the association.

So it's a classic... morally right vs legally right. Pick your side.
Probe1: "Because people are opinionated and love to share their thoughts. Then they read someone else agree with them and get their opinion confused with fact."
Lokian
Profile Joined March 2010
United States699 Posts
August 04 2011 16:48 GMT
#43
thats what happens when u got no rules and regulations in a team
Watch my gaming channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BedinSpace
cronican
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada424 Posts
August 04 2011 16:48 GMT
#44
On August 05 2011 01:30 thehitman wrote:
This changes the story 180% degrees.
If I was an employer and 2 of my workers showed up just 10 days out of 45 I won't be paying them too. I think he should have just canceled their contracts a lot sooner and cut his looses with those two losers who haven't performed even decently in 7-8 months.

I mean who cares if FD won the first GSL when it was the easiest to win, since then he has sucked. Trickster is no better and I feel like they both were abusing the coach and the team TSL by not training and showing up and basically just getting money for nothing. They haven't won a single set in months.


There's a bunch of things we don't know about this. Is there a contract and what does it say? Did coach lee warn them if they did not start coming to practice they would no longer be paid OR did they show up for their money and were then informed that they would not be paid? Was it stipulated anywhere how many hours they need to practice?

The fact that other people gave money back to help the team and others practice more than them is irrelevant. A deal was struck between the two parites and it must be examined what the actual terms of the agreement were and what obligations need to be fulfilled.

The players association, which holds no real power when you think about it, has no legal right to dictate who is owed what. This is a matter for small claims court. Like Judge Judy.

QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 16:49:55
August 04 2011 16:49 GMT
#45
On August 05 2011 01:44 Zeddicus wrote:
I don't think we can be so judgemental, this way or that. We don't know the facts. We are seeing conversations, we are seeing what this person says about the events and what other people say about the events... We don't know what is fact and what isn't...


This.

Every time some new information comes to light regarding, EG-Puma-TSL, FD-Trickster-TSL, SC2CON-TSL, the opinion of the community shifts drastically.

Do we know all the facts? Absolutely not. Hold judgment before you say anything you either regret, or are going to completely change your mind about tomorrow.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 16:52:52
August 04 2011 16:50 GMT
#46
Again,

TL is neither the Judge nor the Jury. There is a reason why SC2 Conference is the body of arbitration. We are in no place to assign blame for TSL's fall, especially when the only information that came out of Korea is a questionable screenshot and a few poorly translated lines.

What we know is, Coach Lee is a good man, a true man of Esports. The breakdown of his team is a true tragedy that I doubt anyone will like to be repeated in our shared history.
Thank God and gunrun.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 04 2011 16:51 GMT
#47
On August 05 2011 01:49 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 01:44 Zeddicus wrote:
I don't think we can be so judgemental, this way or that. We don't know the facts. We are seeing conversations, we are seeing what this person says about the events and what other people say about the events... We don't know what is fact and what isn't...


This.

Every time some new information comes to light regarding, EG-Puma-TSL, FD-Trickster-TSL, SC2CON-TSL, the opinion of the community shifts drastically.

Do we know all the facts? Absolutely not. Hold judgment before you say anything you either regret, or are going to completely change your mind about tomorrow.


too much bandwagoning right now, I agree. People just jump to conclusions too quickly based on so little information.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
August 04 2011 16:51 GMT
#48
On August 05 2011 01:23 Beyonder wrote:
But then the question is, why did they not visit the teamhouse? This is something that we will also hear soon I'm sure. Dont base your opinion on one part of the story too swiftly.

And whoever this is sure has a lot of nerdy games hahaha


I hear that Cool likes to drink :D
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Lokian
Profile Joined March 2010
United States699 Posts
August 04 2011 16:52 GMT
#49
does TSL even have any legal documents to say anything?
Watch my gaming channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BedinSpace
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 16:56:46
August 04 2011 16:55 GMT
#50
The thread title confuses me.


A screenshot of some turkish guy talking to an account named TSL Coach Lee on Skype with broken English is not "facts". :lol

Even if that were Coach Lee, and even if he publicly said that - it still wouldn't be "facts", just his side of the story.
drgoats
Profile Joined March 2010
United States310 Posts
August 04 2011 16:56 GMT
#51
Regardless of how much they have been at the practice house, if it was agreed that they will be paid a certain amount of money, then that is the end of the issue. Lee should have released the players when he saw the issues arising.

The one stipulation is that there was a required amount of time that the players were expected to be at the practice house and the players did not follow those guidelines.

As I see it, it is pretty straight forward that the players are owed the money.
QuixoticO
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Netherlands810 Posts
August 04 2011 16:57 GMT
#52
People really need to learn how to actually make decent conclusions. Just because A = B and B = C doesn't mean A = C. Not knowing the entire story and jumping to conclusions with every new bit of information isn't going to help or clear up the situation.

Can't we just wait for official statements from both sides before we turn this into tabloid journalism :/
"Suum Cuique" - Cicero
tl55555
Profile Joined July 2011
31 Posts
August 04 2011 16:57 GMT
#53
On August 05 2011 01:56 drgoats wrote:
Regardless of how much they have been at the practice house, if it was agreed that they will be paid a certain amount of money, then that is the end of the issue. Lee should have released the players when he saw the issues arising.

The one stipulation is that there was a required amount of time that the players were expected to be at the practice house and the players did not follow those guidelines.

As I see it, it is pretty straight forward that the players are owed the money.


Not really, if you don't show up for work you don't get paid.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
August 04 2011 16:57 GMT
#54
Your post count clearly shows that you are doing this not to get attention, but because of your affenction towards him. However, I don't think posting something against his will is helping him very much.
integrity
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1014 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 16:59:02
August 04 2011 16:58 GMT
#55
i think everyone needs to wait to hear both sides before everyone arms their pitchforks.


and is it me or is TL becoming a very bad gossip community of E-Sports. it really starting to turn me off of reading news headline here because it always one side/bias bull-crap. lets try getting the full story before posting for Christ sake



CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
August 04 2011 16:58 GMT
#56
-.- I think what has been said before is reasonable enough: it is really bad to judge a situation and people and a team based off so little information, especially information not officially released. No statement has come from FD or Tester.

Personally, if Coach Lee did release this, he a. has a really shtty life and everything is goign wrong for him or b. is very outspoken about his grievances (read: complains/wants drama), But again I can't offer a real judgement until real facts come out.
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Marcus420
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada1923 Posts
August 04 2011 16:58 GMT
#57
On August 05 2011 01:56 drgoats wrote:
Regardless of how much they have been at the practice house, if it was agreed that they will be paid a certain amount of money, then that is the end of the issue. Lee should have released the players when he saw the issues arising.

The one stipulation is that there was a required amount of time that the players were expected to be at the practice house and the players did not follow those guidelines.

As I see it, it is pretty straight forward that the players are owed the money.

But usually, if there is a contract,players agree to conditions so that they get paid.

such as minimum of 6 hours practice a day 5 days a week or else you dont get paid. etc etc

thats how i see it at least.
asdfTT123
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States989 Posts
August 04 2011 16:59 GMT
#58
IMO this drama is blown out of proportion. Coach Lee is obviously a bad coach - he can't keep his team together and the individual players are underperforming. He doesn't even have the proper sense to contract his players - look what happened to puma and he comes crying on the web about how hes the innocent father figure.

Then look at tester/fruitdealer - promising players from late beta now completely overshadowed. They say they want a practice environment that's less stringent so they leave oGs for TSL. They can't get their shit together in tournaments and they keep losing (esp FD).

Obv with all this fingerpointing in both directions, both parties need to man up and come to a conclusion - or at least they should have acted mature enough and honor deal on both ends (on wait...there was no contract?!).

tester/FD/coach lee - I hope all three get out of the sc2 scene and stop wasting everyone's time with this legal drama. Nobody is even interesting in tester/FD anymore and coach lee is a cry baby with no management skills.
n.Die_Jaedong <3
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
August 04 2011 16:59 GMT
#59
seems like talking to their own players is not TSL's strong point.

first raging at puma and eg, when everything could have been solved by talking to the player and say hey i would like to talk to eg first, before you leave.

now raging at his own players, when everything could have been solved by talking to both of the players and saying hey if u dont want to practice like we do, i will fire you.
tl55555
Profile Joined July 2011
31 Posts
August 04 2011 17:00 GMT
#60
On August 05 2011 01:58 integrity wrote:
i think everyone needs to wait to hear both sides before everyone arms their pitchforks.


and is it me or is TL becoming a very bad gossip community of E-Sports. it really starting to turn me off of reading news headline here because it always one side/bias bull-crap. lets try getting the full story before posting for Christ sake





If you don't like the title of a thread you don't have to click it, no one is forcing you to read it.
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