|
Best Team League Build Orders
Hello all, so this is my first time posting here on TeamLiquid but I wanted to post some of the Builds I use on 3v3 and 4v4 Team League. I'm Rank 1 Masters in both 3v3 and 4v4 with about a 5:1 winning ratio in Random teams. I'm also in Master league in 1v1 and 2v2, so these builds do work!
Hopefully these builds will help you have success in your Team League play!
Blue Flame Hellion Build (one of the strongest builds in team leagues):
There are two variants to this build. I will list my favorite variant because it allows for more gas intensive play if the initial push does not work. The other variant is arguably the "best" variant because it enables you to get 2 hellions out about 5 seconds earlier. For the purposes of this thread, I will only post the first variant, since the other variant has trade offs as well.
If there is interest, I'll post the "best" variant at a later time. (I was worn down after reviewing the replay to write this 
Fast Hellion:
10 depot
11 gas
(transfer 2 SCVs to gas)
13 rax
16 gas
17 orbital command
(do not transfer any SCVs to other gas, just the 1 that built)
17 factory
17 reactor
17 depot
(switch rax and factory)
19 produce 2 hellions
(stop producing SCVs at 23 supply)
23 depot
23 produce 2 more hellions
23 factory
27 build tech lab on rax
28 depot
(begin scv production)
33 switch factory and rax
36 depot
36 research blue flame
(rally hellions to other side of map and attack)
Later in this build:
At a certain point, I transfer 3 SCVs back to both gas and transition to seige tank/banshee and expand. I posted the above Build Order after watching one of my replays, so everything is timed out as it should be.
Ok, there it is. Everything is well refined, so each action has a distinct purpose within the build. If there is anything I left out or did not clarify, please ask me and I will try to correct it. Thank you!
*An important note is that this build should only be used with rush-oriented allies. If this is done, you will win a lot of games!
If you are looking to create an Arranged Team for 3v3:
I recommend 2 Zerg, 1 Terran with this build. Both zergs will 10 pool, so you have early map control and do not need to worry about being attacked.
If you are looking to create an Arranged Team for 4v4:
There are many more options. My favorite is 2 Zerg, 1 Protoss, 1 Terran where 2 Zergs 10/12 pool (depending on the size of the map and race composition of opponent), Protoss 4 WG rush and I use the Fast Hellion build.
Good luck as you try this build!
Please let me know if you have any questions! I'd be glad to clarify anything or add what I may have left out!
|
1) against what race combintations this build performs better?
2) What about getting only 1 gas, not stopping scvs to get faster expo and take 2nd gas later?
3) why no 2nd factory?
|
You mention 10pooling as zerg.
I'm only diamond in team leagues, not master, and I'm not a fan of 3v3 and 4v4 (only played them at all last season because of this weird desire to be diamond in all leagues) but I feel 11overpool is *far* stronger than 10pool, especially pool before overlord. Economy is much stronger, and you're just as safe against anything as long as you scout and know whether you need to save larvae starting at 13 supply for when the pool finishes (which would be a requirement for 10pool anyway).
I definitely agree that fast blue flame hellion builds can be ridiculously strong against most teams though.
|
On April 09 2011 02:26 Cheerio wrote:
against what race combintations this build performs better?
Composition is more important than race.
Hellions are ridiculously good against zerglings, marines, and zealots. If one of your opponents is building these, then the hellions will easily pay for themselves, even if you don't consider the possibility of worker snipes.
But if a double zerg team both go roaches, for example, you're going to have a really tough time unless you can get some good worker harassment in.
|
I was just thinking about getting a refined build order for this earlier today.
I am disappointed though because it says "Orders" and there is only one build. At least it's the one I was interested in atm
|
how well does this work in 2v2?
|
@ Cheerio. 1) Works best against ZZT, TTZ, PTZ, any combination so long as there aren't 2+ Protoss
2) You're right on the money. This is how I execute the second variant of this build
@ Skrag 10 pooling is how most Zerg players play in team games. A few of my friends who are top 2v2 Random players will nearly always 10 pool, with the exception of 12 pool (cancel 2 extractors and use as mining drones) when there is +1 zerg on opposing team. I can't explain why they do this as I do not play Zerg but I trust their judgment as great players.
General Philosophy of this Build:
I want to clarify this so that people understand race combinations, etc. In this build, your team dictates play. When you dictate play, you force your opponent into producing Tier 1 units early to counter your threat. For instance, if 2 Zergs 10 pool, the other team will have to respond accordingly: Zerglings, Zealots or marines. All of these units are hard countered by blue flame hellions. If you have not seen how hellions roast marines or zealots, please do this build so you can enjoy it . Then after you produce enough hellions, you transition to cloaked banshee and send those in to whoever you do not kill. Meanwhile your zerg allies can macro up and transition to roach as you harrass the remaining player/s
|
On April 09 2011 02:36 Ruyguy wrote:
how well does this work in 2v2?
It's designed to be a team build. T+Z is arguably the strongest 2v2 combination largely because of how powerful and versatile hellion/speedling is.
|
It's a lot better to go for a 2nd factory started when you have 100 gas. This build will lose to a properly executed 2 factory hellion build as they'll have significantly more hellions than you, but just as quick of a blue flame.
Getting a second refinery is a waste, it's better to just have a Zerg ally mine a bit extra from their extractor and send it to you.
e: I'm at work so I can't post it directly from a replay  I'll look it out when I get home.
e2: getting the second gas before the factory also slows down your first hellions which is bad against a good team.
I have no doubt this build works well against the vast majority of 3v3/4v4ers considering most 3v3/4v4 teams are either random teams or bad people. I do feel that you'd lose to an actual high level team who knows what they're doing using it, however.
|
@ PinkPrincess Even versus a 1 gas build, this build will have equal supply and more gas potential than the variant build. I suggest this variant first because it allows for more banshee/tank play as a transition out of this build. Also, this build will have the SAME supply as the 1 gas build. The only difference is that 1 gas grants hellions about 5 seconds earlier. With equal numbers of hellions and fast banshees in this variant, I prefer this build as it is more versatile
|
Also Thank you Cheerio, I had forgotten the 2nd factory at 23 supply. I edited the first post
|
|
|
You mentioned you have a 5:1 win ratio as random, what do you do as zerg and protoss?
|
what time do the hellions pop and blue flame finish?
|
Do this with a zerg going speedling and you have won ~95% of all your team games.
Thanks for posting this!
|
On April 09 2011 02:27 Skrag wrote:You mention 10pooling as zerg. I'm only diamond in team leagues, not master, and I'm not a fan of 3v3 and 4v4 (only played them at all last season because of this weird desire to be diamond in all leagues) but I feel 11overpool is *far* stronger than 10pool, especially pool before overlord. Economy is much stronger, and you're just as safe against anything as long as you scout and know whether you need to save larvae starting at 13 supply for when the pool finishes (which would be a requirement for 10pool anyway). I definitely agree that fast blue flame hellion builds can be ridiculously strong against most teams though.
10 pooling is pretty standard because it allows for the earliest lings while still getting speed and a queen in good timing.
Edit: I forgot to mention I use 15 hatch vs any team without Zerg, and 11 overpool or faster vs teams including a Zerg (for 2's).
That being said I am finding myself doing 11overpool much more frequently, especially vs TZ.
I've had great success vs the standard sling hellion builds 11 overpooling and basically using that added economic advantage to get 2 spines. With your queen(s), spines and good micro you can punish the shit out of TZ teams that get overly aggressive without losing many/any drones. Then transition to roach with a teammate who went stalker or mm or hellions themselves ftw.
To OP, have you ever faced a 10 or less pool plus proxy gates? I've been trying to dream of strategies that hardcounter the typical sling hellion builds that you have to see all day in masters 2's, and I think the best way to abuse it is to punish the Terran super early for the straight tech.
|
On April 09 2011 02:51 zmansman17 wrote:
@ PinkPrincess Even versus a 1 gas build, this build will have equal supply and more gas potential than the variant build. I suggest this variant first because it allows for more banshee/tank play as a transition out of this build. Also, this build will have the SAME supply as the 1 gas build. The only difference is that 1 gas grants hellions about 5 seconds earlier. With equal numbers of hellions and fast banshees in this variant, I prefer this build as it is more versatile
I don't know how you can possibly think you'll get as many Hellions out of 1 factory that switched from a reactor to a tech lab mid-way as having 2 factories, one that stays on a reactor and the other that is on a tech lab. You keep up on the Hellion count initially, but you will very quickly fall behind in the Hellion count after switching over to starting to get blue flame. Against a good team you'll get killed during that time as he's increasing his Hellion count 3x faster than you are by then.
Even if you did manage to tech to Banshee safely (which is unlikely with your opening), they'll hit you before it makes any difference and will be able to get anti-air up if they know their timings.
And obviously with the standard opening you get a 2nd gas too, just not that fast because your build is suicidal.
|
On April 09 2011 05:06 PinkPrincess wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 02:51 zmansman17 wrote:
@ PinkPrincess Even versus a 1 gas build, this build will have equal supply and more gas potential than the variant build. I suggest this variant first because it allows for more banshee/tank play as a transition out of this build. Also, this build will have the SAME supply as the 1 gas build. The only difference is that 1 gas grants hellions about 5 seconds earlier. With equal numbers of hellions and fast banshees in this variant, I prefer this build as it is more versatile I don't know how you can possibly think you'll get as many Hellions out of 1 factory that switched from a reactor to a tech lab mid-way as having 2 factories, one that stays on a reactor and the other that is on a tech lab. You keep up on the Hellion count initially, but you will very quickly fall behind in the Hellion count after switching over to starting to get blue flame. Against a good team you'll get killed during that time as he's increasing his Hellion count 3x faster than you are by then. Even if you did manage to tech to Banshee safely (which is unlikely with your opening), they'll hit you before it makes any difference and will be able to get anti-air up if they know their timings.
No, you may be confused. There are two factories; recheck the build. Cheerio helped me to make that correction. Also, I don't think I would have the record I do without knowing what I am doing
|
On April 09 2011 05:07 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 05:06 PinkPrincess wrote:On April 09 2011 02:51 zmansman17 wrote:
@ PinkPrincess Even versus a 1 gas build, this build will have equal supply and more gas potential than the variant build. I suggest this variant first because it allows for more banshee/tank play as a transition out of this build. Also, this build will have the SAME supply as the 1 gas build. The only difference is that 1 gas grants hellions about 5 seconds earlier. With equal numbers of hellions and fast banshees in this variant, I prefer this build as it is more versatile I don't know how you can possibly think you'll get as many Hellions out of 1 factory that switched from a reactor to a tech lab mid-way as having 2 factories, one that stays on a reactor and the other that is on a tech lab. You keep up on the Hellion count initially, but you will very quickly fall behind in the Hellion count after switching over to starting to get blue flame. Against a good team you'll get killed during that time as he's increasing his Hellion count 3x faster than you are by then. Even if you did manage to tech to Banshee safely (which is unlikely with your opening), they'll hit you before it makes any difference and will be able to get anti-air up if they know their timings. No, you may be confused. There are two factories; recheck the build. Cheerio helped me to make that correction. Also, I don't think I would have the record I do without knowing what I am doing
Oh. Your original build had only one Factory when I first posted this morning - I didn't re-check that you edited your build order when making the second post. The second gas is still depriving you of minerals that would be better spent early on to increase your strength, but it's not as bad of a build as it was initially without that second gas.
I don't care much about your record. 3v3 has nearly all bad teams - last season we went 100-1 on one of our teams...
|
On April 09 2011 04:30 Penatronic wrote:
10 pooling is pretty standard because it allows for the earliest lings while still getting speed and a queen in good timing.
I've never really felt like the "earliest lings" matters, especially if your teammate is going for hellions, and there are a lot of inefficiencies and sacrifices in a 10pool build.
On April 09 2011 04:30 Penatronic wrote:
I've had great success vs the standard sling hellion builds 11 overpooling and basically using that added economic advantage to get 2 spines. With your queen(s), spines and good micro you can punish the shit out of TZ teams that get overly aggressive without losing many/any drones.
This is one of the reasons I strongly prefer 11OP. I play random, but 11OP pretty much every single game I roll zerg. It seems like it has the best balance between economy, safety, and flexibility. It obviously flows well into an aggressive build, if your scouting is good enough, you can go into an 18 hatch, which makes it the most economic pool-first build period, and the pool is still early enough to hold off even a double 6pool as long as you're not taken completely by surprise. You'll take damage obviously, with the amount of damage depending on how much help you get from your ally, but you'll either die more than slowly enough for your ally to kill them, or you'll survive for the easy win.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
