Best American Players

On May 05 2004 19:56 TranCe wrote:
what the fuck hovz?did you grow a brain cell while i was gone?

On May 05 2004 20:01 GoDHovZ wrote:
teroru after losing to 6 zegrlings because my scvs and marines froze for 5 seconds i dont feel lik eplaying bw

On May 05 2004 21:12 SS-guy wrote:
i thought this was supposed to be usa...

T: froz kiwi hellghost
P: giyom smuft rekrul
Z: paul
R: testie

On May 05 2004 19:56 TranCe wrote:
what the fuck hovz?did you grow a brain cell while i was gone?

On May 06 2004 01:31 GroT wrote:
that's odd i don't even know sadist, what's his play style like?

On May 05 2004 22:19 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
if you live in the u.s., your ears pick up "american" and "from the united states" as interchangable. come to think of it, you hear this in other countries too. they say "fucking american dogs", they don't mean people from south america or canada i don't think. what else do you call a "united states citzen"? they are called americans. maybe it should be a misnomer, don't ask me why. but ppl call people from the u.s. "americans", people call things from the u.s. "american", canada has "canadian" and other countries have other things; the u.s. is stuck with "american" ok :|

On May 05 2004 19:54 GoDHovZ wrote:
if your talking currently

t
nyoken
sadist

p
bigballs
saddles

z
day

On May 06 2004 04:53 iD.Midian wrote:
CocoA is obviously underrated, I certainly think he's #2 USA zerg at least.

On May 06 2004 07:43 ~Legit~ wrote:
Current: (USA)

T: Nyoken Sadist Hovz

P: Rekrul Whear(does he still play?)BB

Z:Day KickDog Improbable

On May 06 2004 08:38 -_- wrote:
Best P Testie

Best T Hovz

Best Z Don't know

Best random Testie

Most creative Hmm, I don't thing the "randominator (:" is american so no idea!

On May 06 2004 09:56 Countdown wrote:
nextel, lmao.

imo:

best T: (excluding assem)

Froz
nyoken
hovz

Best P:

Rek, and about 6 others just as good

best Z:

day
kickdog
cocoa

best random: me!

most creative: Tsunami, duh

On May 06 2004 10:56 KiLLme1st- wrote:


Idiotic posts like this are why noone cares about your opinion...6 other p's just as good as rek in USA ya good one...fucking moron.

On May 06 2004 11:07 Countdown wrote:


Shouldn't you be losing more Nation Wars for the US instead of flaming my posts? When I said 6 other P's just as good, I meant 6 other P's below rek that are all just as good as each other. Good job on taking my little typo to find a reason to let off a little steam. That time of the month?

On May 06 2004 11:44 Twitt wrote:
I've seen a few reps of you, nothing much to go off, I've just seen a lot of Nyoken since I know him. He seems really solid all the way around, I'm not saying you're definitely below him, I'm just going off what I know. I'm not just picking him cuz hes a friend, I just have more exposure to him and have seen more of his games,thats all.

On May 06 2004 11:56 [pG]Rekrul wrote:


then why pick anyone at all if your picking means nothing because you do not possess enough information to make a valid judgement

On May 06 2004 09:18 GoDHovZ wrote:
ummm the only race testie can beat me with is z fayth

On May 06 2004 11:24 Emperor-X17 wrote:
best t : Hellghost , froz and assem
Best p: Blast, smuft, rekrul (giyom but hes more korean than canadian :D)
Best z: Paul
Best random: Testie by far

those are the only 2 from usa worth mentioning , rest are pure overrated shit.

On May 06 2004 12:02 Twitt wrote:


I was saying that from what I've seen, I would place Nyoken above Sadist, not that I don't know anything about anyone I picked. I just know more about Nyo's gameplay than Sadists, thats why I put him above him. I think you might have misunderstood me.

On May 06 2004 12:10 [pG]Rekrul wrote:


my point is why would you put anyone above anyone if you're aware of your own ignorance towards another player's capabilities

instead of saying "player x is > than player y because of what i've seen"

you can say

"i don't know shit."

On May 06 2004 12:14 IntoTheClan wrote:


Right.

On May 06 2004 12:40 Twitt wrote:
IntoTheClan, you're like asking to get banned or something. =/

All I'm saying is that I have seen Sadist play, and based on what I've seen, which was from a few months ago, I would say Nyoken is better. He says he's gotten a lot better recently, and I've seen a few of the games, maybe not enough to grasp completely how much better he's gotten, but enough to where I feel Nyoken is still better. Maybe if I saw more games, it would give me more to decide off of, thats all I'm saying.

On May 06 2004 12:42 [pG]Rekrul wrote:


AND WHAT IM SAYING IS THAT YOU SAYING THAT IS COMPLETE IDIOCY, OK?

On May 06 2004 09:56 Countdown wrote:
nextel, lmao.

imo:

best T: (excluding assem)

Froz
nyoken
hovz

Best P:

Rek, and about 6 others just as good

best Z:

day
kickdog
cocoa

best random: me!

most creative: Tsunami, duh

On May 06 2004 12:51 NerO wrote:


nextel is probably the best american P currently thats active him or saddles there arent that many good active Ps rite now but ur an idiot so y am i posting this. . .

On May 06 2004 13:39 hasuwar wrote:
Yeah you guys..if you don't study every USA player and know exactly who's better than who this very second, why are you posting? You must have known that this was directed only to strict USA BW analysts ..........

On May 06 2004 11:36 Twitt wrote:
I think right now Nyoken > Sadist. I'll put Cocoa in as my 3rd zerg, since hes better than anyone else I can think of.

On May 06 2004 12:58 Countdown wrote:
someone on my f list went on west in a smurf and he asked nextel how good he is. nextel told him he was the best in usa

On May 06 2004 11:59 iloveoo wrote:
and how do you know they are newbies Sadist ?
have u ever seen 'them' play?
no u haven't , so that means u can't judge?
blehh this logic makes 0 sense

if someone's so good at bw he would have achieved something.......even top3 at WGT/WCG ...... something...

people who have achieved 0 and therefore don't deserve to be on the list :
nyoken
sadist
artofglory
kickdog
cocoa
testie

so that leaves us with many canadians.......and very few americans (rek/froz/assem)
Hovz is excluded because he's terrible compared to the others.....and talks too much

Also Testie deserves to be there , seeing as how good he's playing lately

On May 06 2004 13:41 [pG]Rekrul wrote:


he was talking to Twitt, dipshit

On May 06 2004 13:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
People shouldn't compare two things unless they have knowledge of both. You don't say that FroZ is better than Boxer just because you've seen more reps of FroZ, and from that, you think that FroZ is better. A reasonable person would realize that you just shouldn't be comparing them at all if you don't know a lot about both. Statements made in ignorance will be treated as such.

On May 06 2004 12:40 Twitt wrote:
All I'm saying is that I have seen Sadist play, and based on what I've seen, which was from a few months ago, I would say Nyoken is better. He says he's gotten a lot better recently, and I've seen a few of the games, maybe not enough to grasp completely how much better he's gotten, but enough to where I feel Nyoken is still better. Maybe if I saw more games, it would give me more to decide off of, thats all I'm saying.

On May 06 2004 13:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
People shouldn't compare two things unless they have knowledge of both. You don't say that FroZ is better than Boxer just because you've seen more reps of FroZ, and from that, you think that FroZ is better. A reasonable person would realize that you just shouldn't be comparing them at all if you don't know a lot about both. Statements made in ignorance will be treated as such.

On May 06 2004 14:48 hasuwar wrote:


Gee, really? Thanks for clearing that up...

He posted




He's seen sadist play, he's seen nyoken play. He's seen Nyoken play more, and he was more impressed by Nyoken's play. Maybe if he saw more of his new reps, it might change his opinion, but from what he's seen, nyoken is better. He didn't just say Sadist was worse to say it, he said it because he was more impressed with nyokens play. A response like that wasn't even necessary by Cyric


I've watched the Lakers and I've watched the Golden Nugs. I've watched the Lakers more, but have still seen the nugs play a few times. I think the Lakers are better. This thread was made for opinions, don't lash out at someone for giving one

On May 06 2004 08:55 Fayth[pG] wrote:

Testie's terran is way better than hovz's terran, maybe you should put testie as best Z too ?

On May 05 2004 22:10 Veg wrote:


funny since most of the better players are found north of your border

On May 06 2004 15:42 Wirthi wrote:
Most of these lists are so useless, please read what topic starter wrote: "north and south"

Be honest, at least half of the players listed must be canadian considering smuft, Giyom etc.

On May 06 2004 16:59 Emperor-X17 wrote:

I would also consider LG)Darki but he hasnt achieved anything. however im sure he can beat any of u. The same goes with LG)Rivc, Keir and Trunkz.

On May 06 2004 17:16 PuertoRican wrote:
as for Rivc, Keir, Trunkz, i never played any of them nor seen them.

but i'll make a return to bw to play them if they are really that good.

On May 06 2004 19:13 Teroru wrote:
But no one knows how good any1 is.

I'm the best zerg outside of korea.

Not a single person on these forums can say otherwise: none of you know how good i am.

Every1 is equally as ignorant about skill as every1 else. You can't not be influenced by the people you play with most. The difference is that most people will value opinions of 'good' players *because they are thought of as good*. It doesn't mean that the good player's RIGHT though.

The guy admitted that he based his opinion off of his own experiences - and you people rag on him for it. The difference between him and the rest of you is that he is *admitting* to his ignorance, while the rest of you are naive enough to think that YOUR not ignorant.

----

These lists aren't pointless because skill is subjective. The only way you can 'prove' ones skill, is to observe their performance. At the same time, we all know that one's performance isn't necesarrily a true reflection of ones skill. ie: i am 2-0 with Trek. But i, and everyone else, know that i am nowhere near his level of skill.

----

On that note, i'd like to add that i think im top 10 zerg in NA. I'm assuming Day is better (because he's #1 on every1's list, and i've never played him). I've never seen Cocoa play, or have played him, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and put him at #2 (being that he also gets alot of votes). Paul can't not be on the list. He's better than day and cocoa imo, but again, 'i dont know shit', cause i've never seen Day play.

After that, i don't believe there are any top zerg players. So i will put myself somewhere between 4 and 10. (just incase there might be some unknown gosu's).

On May 06 2004 18:24 Countdown wrote:


You sound pretty confident. I'd put 5 bucks on Darki.

On May 06 2004 20:46 GoDHovZ wrote:
shit if u people want to bet money, ill bet that i can rape darki

On May 06 2004 20:22 Teroru wrote:
thank you orlandu

i value your opinion, and always have. *_*

for what its worth; in the gayest way possible: <3 !

On May 06 2004 20:46 GoDHovZ wrote:
shit if u people want to bet money, ill bet that i can rape darki

On May 06 2004 20:48 GoDHovZ wrote:
well he might win 1 game thru pur eluck, but thats about it. chances are it would be a sweep.

On May 06 2004 21:11 chava wrote:
PuertoRican, who are you?

On May 06 2004 21:31 GoDHovZ wrote:
puertorican i thought it was u who said darki would rape us all(i took all meanign everyone from america)

On May 06 2004 21:41 Emperor-X17 wrote:
1st of all i said darki can win many games in series against any of u. But as usual , ur limited intelligence reads what u want to see hovz. 2nd of all Blast is far better than sadist saddless hovz nyoken bigballs and any of those u r mentioning. He has also beaten rekrul countless times but i think rekrul can beat him any time. Sadist , i can arrange u a best of 7 against blast or darki and im sure u will loose.

On May 06 2004 22:59 GoDHovZ wrote:
chava compared to blast and them, i am nada

On May 06 2004 21:52 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
Emperor do you have Swedish blood or something...?
I mean, you must be Latin, thats a given, but, whew.

On May 06 2004 19:13 Teroru wrote:
But no one knows how good any1 is.

I'm the best zerg outside of korea.

Not a single person on these forums can say otherwise: none of you know how good i am.

Every1 is equally as ignorant about skill as every1 else. You can't not be influenced by the people you play with most. The difference is that most people will value opinions of 'good' players *because they are thought of as good*. It doesn't mean that the good player's RIGHT though.

The guy admitted that he based his opinion off of his own experiences - and you people rag on him for it. The difference between him and the rest of you is that he is *admitting* to his ignorance, while the rest of you are naive enough to think that YOUR not ignorant.

----

These lists aren't pointless because skill is subjective. The only way you can 'prove' ones skill, is to observe their performance. At the same time, we all know that one's performance isn't necesarrily a true reflection of ones skill. ie: i am 2-0 with Trek. But i, and everyone else, know that i am nowhere near his level of skill.

----

On that note, i'd like to add that i think im top 10 zerg in NA. I'm assuming Day is better (because he's #1 on every1's list, and i've never played him). I've never seen Cocoa play, or have played him, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and put him at #2 (being that he also gets alot of votes). Paul can't not be on the list. He's better than day and cocoa imo, but again, 'i dont know shit', cause i've never seen Day play.

After that, i don't believe there are any top zerg players. So i will put myself somewhere between 4 and 10. (just incase there might be some unknown gosu's).

On May 07 2004 02:55 88)KicKDoG wrote:
cool thread though in the beginning. im surprised to see myself listed so many times

On May 07 2004 01:58 XaI)CyRiC wrote:


Both Sadist and Nyoken are pretty well-known players, people DO know how good they are. We're not talking about you, we're not talking about Twitt. The comparison was between two players whose comparative skill IS known by the people who have played with them and are in a position to judge (people who are better or near their skill).

That being said, not everyone is as ignorant as everyone else in this case. There are players such as Sadist himself, Nyoken, Rekrul, etc. who are in a position to make such a judgment of their comparative skills. Their opinions will be weighed more heavily because they have the knowledge necessary to make the comparison, not just the fact that they are "good". In this case they are not only right because they're good, but also because of their experience with the players in question.

Twitt made a judgment based on limited knowledge and was criticized for it by people who know better. He then tried to argue by explaining his flawed logical process of reaching his conclusion (I'm not going to explain the flaws again). His admittance of his ignorance means nothing if he somehow still thinks that his opinion holds any weight despite it.

The difference between Twitt and us is not that he admits to his ignorance, I freely admit to ignorance on the topic of Nyoken and Sadist's relative skill. The difference is that he doesn't realize his limited knowledge and flawed reasoning makes his opinion worthless in the face of the people he's trying to convince. I, and any reasonable person, would not presume to tell Sadist that Nyoken is better than he is when all I have to go on is biased and incomplete information. Opinion or not, it's still a silly thing to do.

Skill is subjective to a point, but there are situations in which it can be judged relative to others. It's not like Nyoken and Sadist have never played, or are part of different continents. They are both skilled players in the US, and it's very likely that people who are part of that small group of very skilled US players CAN judge with reasonable accuracy their comparative skill levels. The judgments would indeed be subjective and limited in accuracy to an extent, but I think it'd be negligible and by no means ill-informed or ignorant.

Oh and many of us on this forum CAN say otherwise about your claim to being the best Zerg outside of Korea. The absence of evidence is not evidence, the lack of information about your skill does not lead to the assumption that you are the best. Reasonable people would be skeptical of such a claim until given evidence to the contrary, not the other way around. Your skill is non-existent until proven, people don't start at the top of the ladder. The difference between the reasoning of you and Twitt, and that of Rekrul and mine is that I'm not going to make any judgments about your relative skill with that limited knowledge.

On May 07 2004 02:00 sliggdogg wrote:
cyric if you weren't an admin i'd tell you to shut the fuck up.
Oh well, guess I just did. Bye -.-

On May 07 2004 03:12 ilnp wrote:
When will you guys never learn that being good at BW will not make you cool, nor will fooling a couple hundrend recluse adolescents into thinking you're good.

Being good at Starcraft is about making you feel good inside. All the good players, the truly great players, didn't play Starcraft so a bunch of kids would come up to them at a tournament. Fuck, they didn't even play it for money. They played it because being good at some stupid activity was important to them.

In my personal exploits I recently (not too recent... maybe six months ago) met a dutch poker player, quite good, who was also a fairly established chess player, who told me "I play poker for money, I play chess for love." You all should feel that way about BW, or find a new hobby.

Oh man I just ripped one hell of a fart.

On May 07 2004 07:20 ~Legit~ wrote:
oh forgot this in my other post...pyhruss[cf] has second best zerg in us behind day hands down

Top 3 USA P:
1)Rekrul
2)BigBalls
3)Saddles

On May 07 2004 11:24 HnR)Louder wrote:
i like all the canadian players getting mixed in =-D

since we already have European one i tought i would star this!
In your opinion who are the top three Americans (North and South)

On May 07 2004 11:39 JoeSaddles wrote:
ancient i'd like to see you name some USA protosses that are better than me besides rekrul and bigballs. gogogogo

On May 07 2004 11:39 JoeSaddles wrote:
ancient i'd like to see you name some USA protosses that are better than me besides rekrul and bigballs. gogogogo

On May 07 2004 12:14 Teroru wrote:


JelloOne

On May 06 2004 15:45 JohnTitor wrote:
Best T:
rS.Testie

Best P:
rS.Testie

Best Z:
rS.Testie

Best Random:
rS.Testie

Most Creative:
rS.Testie

On May 07 2004 06:39 ArtOfGlory2 wrote:
As usual, a battle of popularity over skill

On May 07 2004 07:20 ~Legit~ wrote:
oh forgot this in my other post...pyhruss[cf] has second best zerg in us behind day hands down

On May 07 2004 13:29 Ancient wrote:
Saddles its pointless of me listing about 20 better toss's than you in the USA, but if you want, sure. You arent good, and you cant compete with shit. Please just leave the fact alone, that you arent even in the top 5 toss.

On May 07 2004 12:55 -_- wrote:


What the hell is this?

On May 07 2004 15:53 NerO wrote:
Top PROTOSS players in USA =

1) Nooks
2) Brandon[MAN]

BTW #1 USA T USER!

1) Assen[x-org]

lmao sry had 2 say this lol

On May 07 2004 13:21 PuertoRican wrote:


he's not a pure Protoss player anymore ehhh?

i doubt he could get 2nd best usa zerg in the time ive been gone.

On May 07 2004 06:17 Veg wrote:
How am I cocky sadist?

I'm not the one who put myself on a top 3 list that I don't deserve to be in. (HUGE HINT TOWARDS SADIST)

On May 07 2004 16:06 KhresT wrote:
ppl said about LG)Darki, many "latin gamers" are lower than Brazilian players like yeh.tw (aka S.H.E[Rush], bigboy[soa] and Star.Death[SOA])

Just see the Latin Cup, hg own then all, include Darki.

dirk are you that dirk-e guy or whatever? why the hell are you making shit up, you used to ask me for advice everyday and suck up to me on bnet. and i always beat you when we played.