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So far i have lost 2 PvP's due to fully charged void rays. First game, i saw he had 3 void rays so kept producing stalkers and zealots, i had a good, my army seemed like it was greater (upon watching replay it turns out that including his 3 food for 3 void rays we had exactly the same army supply). So i went in for the attack. He had a load of zealots just doing damage to my stalkers so i micro them back, shoot, micro back, shoot. But while doing this the voidrays are just melting me away, and once fully charged they take down a stalker in 3/4 seconds? Needless to say he decimated my army!
Second game, it was on that map where the bases are close but the rush distance is huge (desert oasis i think its called). I went for a stalker zealot voidray build like the guy before me. However the guy i was playing against walled of his ramp with 2 zealots. At this point i thought he could either be going voidrays or DT's, so i pumped out one voidray to scout before making any more. Got to his base and he had 2 voidrays out, at which point it was GG for my voidray as you can't micro away from them, a third one popped out and they started heading towards my base. My army was a little out of possition, but i got back to base before they could cause any damage. But by the time i got there they were fully charged. They ripped through 6 stalkers and a pheonix.
So on maps with close air distance, how can you actually beat voidrays if you cannot scout it?
Thanks
User was temp banned for this post.
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If he's just using Zealots to wall off, you can still sneak a Probe in by telling it to mine minerals in your opponent's base.
Stalkers are very effective against Void Rays because they're so much easier to produce, and once you get Blink you'll roll him over. A player getting Void Rays won't have a large ground force except for some Zealots so it shouldn't be too hard to manage.
You pretty much have to scout things like this relatively early, no reason not to. Observer / Phoenix / Hallucination are your friends.
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Target fire? Blink? Phoenixes?
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In your first example you seem to be referring to void rays as used in a midgame army. I find it hard to think that any support unit like a void ray could be OP in a midgame army of a mirror match up, but maybe I'm misinterpreting something.
In your second example, the problem seems to be that the build you are doing does not allow for scouting, perhaps you should consider a phoenix out of your stargate or something like that. I don't think that saying his void rays beat my void ray therefore void rays are OP makes too much sense here either.
Overall, you seem to be rushing to call something OP based on 2 games that you played, in a mirror match up. If I recall correctly, I believe that you may be in violation of the forum rules since your post is not accompanied by the necessary number of plat replay to claim something is OP. Finally, if you truly believe you have found an imbalance, you should be abusing it to its fullest, and telling other here how to do so, so that Blizzard is encouraged to fix it.
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Stalkers are great vs Void Rays, just have to keep microing them out of range to keep his rays from charging to full, Blink is especially good for this.
As for the scouting, if the protoss just sits back and turtles with cannons you can pretty safely assume voids are coming... blocking off with zealots is harder to guess so you might have to go observers (which makes it harder to recover into stalkers) but is probably a better option than assuming voids (since it could be anything)
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@TheFrozenPhone
Nice probe trick, did not know that, but still, 2 zealots punching a probe in the face kills it instantly.
And yea, blink is the winning factor against void rays but both games were over before i could get it researched.
@TestSubject893 Not once in my post did i say voidrays were over powered. The tittle is not a statement but a question, because everytime i encounter a Protoss player going voidrays they decimate my army (with ground support ofc).
In the second game i was trying to do the build the guy before me had gone, so i went for a fast voidray WITH a ground force. Where as my opponent just went pure voidray therefore outnumbered my voidray 3 to 1! I could not micro the voidray away as it is impossible, so when his 3 voidrays got to my base they had fully charged off of my nexus and they melted away my couple of stalkers (Most of my ground army was zealot).
@Rhodan When its just voidrays against stalkers yes the stalkers can counter it, but when he has some zealots and stalkers hitting you in the face what do you do? Focus down the voidrays before they get charged? Or micro against the zealots (But the voidrays can still attack).
And when a protoss turtles its never safe to assume anything. He could of been going DT's HT's Collosus's or just bluffing a tech and massing up an army. Every time i assume a player is doing something i get slapped in the face.
Voidrays are crap when not charged, but once they are fully charged they tear through a lot of units. On maps with close air distance i now always go voidrays against protoss, as unless they go very fast mass blink stalkers, or fast voidrays/pheonix then its pretty hard to stop.
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takes 3 hits not 2 to kill a probe westy
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On May 15 2010 12:17 ALang wrote:
Target fire? Blink? Phoenixes?
Phoenixes? What?
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You should upload replays if you want advice that really matters
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On May 15 2010 13:40 Titanidis wrote:
You should upload replays if you want advice that really matters
But im not asking what i did wrong, i just want to know how other people successfully counter Voidrays (Without being able to scout it).
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if you think he is going a tech build (so when you see he only has 2 zealots at his choke), just push him around 5-6 zealot/sentry/stalker mix. his 2 zealots will fall quickly, and his first void ray should be out when u hit, and void rays are very weak defenders because they dont have buildings to charge up on, especially only one void ray.
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Seriously, the words overpowered, OP, imbalanced, imba should be FORBIDDEN for usage related to balance of a competitive game such as starcraft and starcraft 2 from non top-level players. This includes me and I don not use them. In order to even consider balance issues you need to have played a biig (100+) games with the unit / encounter of question and with flawless execution of the build, perfect macro and a deep understanding of strategy, tactics, advantages.. etc. etc. In the occasions I have mentioned them I have stated my opinion that there is no 'imba' there is just lack of creativity to find a solution, especially this early .. the game hasn't been ever released. All that said, I definitely don't mean to offend anyone, I understand(from personal experience too) that people have trouble with some stuff. What I would recommend is using the convention 'X is giving me trouble' or 'how to deal with X strategy'.
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Void rays are imbalanced in general. There is not a unit that Terran has that is cost effective against charged Void Rays (and anyone with a functional brain can charge void rays by coming in at a random angle and attacking anything).
Pheonixes aren't bad because you can micro in and out of range. Vikings are too slow.
I don't know enough about ZvP to comment.
Don't worry about it too much, it will be fixed.
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On May 15 2010 12:17 ALang wrote:
Target fire? Blink? Phoenixes?
Fast Blink is semi-viable, Phoenixes, however, lose to VRs 2-1 if they're charged. I know that from experience.
Honestly, getting enough stalkers does the job, and trying to make sure they don't get fully charged is important. Cannons also match range with VRs, so tossing one down on the mineral line never hurts, and it lets you get 1 weapons pretty early. Overall, I think it takes 3 stalkers to kill an uncharged VR and probably 5 or so to kill a charged one.
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I have also lost a few games to this strategy. The problem in my opinion is, that in theory stalker (especially with blink) > voidrays, but the opponent also has lots and lots of zealots or even chargelots and they just really own your stalker. Granted I'm only a gold player and my stalker micro may not be sufficient I have no idea how to handle this strategy except using it on my own. Any recommandations are welcome.
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Sentries' Guardian Shield is extremely effective against VRs. I know people just spam FF, but it's really quite helpful to throw two or three sentries in the mix for this. Stalkers with blink and a few sentries to significantly lower the incoming damage and you've won.
Also, as an off-shoot, armor upgrades are really effective against void rays, obviously, especially if the VRs aren't charged yet.
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I just got analed a few games ago by this method:
PROTOSS VS PROTOSS
DOUBLE GAS STEAL
VOIDRAY
All range units for Protoss comes from gas.
Its like free GG :D
(should work on ZERG too)
(obv. wont work on terran)
Here it is everyone the replay of how its done.
There is NO WAY they can counter this
(well almost unless they know about this strategy!)
http://www.mediafire.com/?n31mdznjmgf
NOTES:
- Enemy player was Silver rank 20ish 1v1 and Gold rank 2nd 2v2
- Map was steppes of war which has the CLOSEST rush distance and should give the highest advantage to his zealot rush, but as you can see, the strategy is unstoppable even on this map!
-(note this was my first time doing this strategy and my timings MAY be slightly off)
have fun :D
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stalkers with blink = no problem against void rays
or to quote Tester if someone goes void rays,
"Thank you very much, I'll kick your ass"
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On May 15 2010 13:27 Westy wrote:
@TheFrozenPhone
Nice probe trick, did not know that, but still, 2 zealots punching a probe in the face kills it instantly.
And yea, blink is the winning factor against void rays but both games were over before i could get it researched.
@TestSubject893 Not once in my post did i say voidrays were over powered. The tittle is not a statement but a question, because everytime i encounter a Protoss player going voidrays they decimate my army (with ground support ofc).
In the second game i was trying to do the build the guy before me had gone, so i went for a fast voidray WITH a ground force. Where as my opponent just went pure voidray therefore outnumbered my voidray 3 to 1! I could not micro the voidray away as it is impossible, so when his 3 voidrays got to my base they had fully charged off of my nexus and they melted away my couple of stalkers (Most of my ground army was zealot).
@Rhodan When its just voidrays against stalkers yes the stalkers can counter it, but when he has some zealots and stalkers hitting you in the face what do you do? Focus down the voidrays before they get charged? Or micro against the zealots (But the voidrays can still attack).
And when a protoss turtles its never safe to assume anything. He could of been going DT's HT's Collosus's or just bluffing a tech and massing up an army. Every time i assume a player is doing something i get slapped in the face.
Voidrays are crap when not charged, but once they are fully charged they tear through a lot of units. On maps with close air distance i now always go voidrays against protoss, as unless they go very fast mass blink stalkers, or fast voidrays/pheonix then its pretty hard to stop.
Dude, you're title says Void rays are OP. Gtfo.
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On May 15 2010 16:45 virgozero wrote:I just got analed a few games ago by this method: PROTOSS VS PROTOSS DOUBLE GAS STEAL VOIDRAY All range units for Protoss comes from gas. Its like free GG :D (should work on ZERG too) (obv. wont work on terran) Here it is everyone the replay of how its done. There is NO WAY they can counter this (well almost unless they know about this strategy!) http://www.mediafire.com/?n31mdznjmgfNOTES: - Enemy player was Silver rank 20ish 1v1 and Gold rank 2nd 2v2 - Map was steppes of war which has the CLOSEST rush distance and should give the highest advantage to his zealot rush, but as you can see, the strategy is unstoppable even on this map! -(note this was my first time doing this strategy and my timings MAY be slightly off) have fun :D
If your zealots killed the assimilators first you would have propably defended it.You could have killed at least 1 assimilator till the 5 zealots attack you did with the 2-3 that were sitting around.
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EPT
