The numbers inside parenthesis represent the player's record for the last 5 games played against the opponent's race in (W-L) format. The numbers between the above statistic represent the players' head to head record.
hero does have a better record, but if you look at who he's beaten, the only notables are Kwanro and... well... that's pretty much the only decent ZvZ player he's beaten. He did beat great before though on Neo Medusa, but the game is ZvZ, and anything can happen.
The statistics may say one thing, but look at the players that these guys have been facing. In his last 5 matches, Kal has beaten SangHo, free, Jangbi, and Horang2, and lost to BackHo. JangBi has been matched against Bisu 3 times, Kal, and Much. The game that JangBi won was against Bisu. Really, the last 5 matches don't say too much about how these guys are really performing in the match up. Kal's loss against BackHo was against 1 freaking DT. JangBi's loss to Bisu was... well... against Bisu. However, one major factor that JangBi has over Kal is preparation time. For the last week, Kal had to face Jaedong in the MSL, and he was probably focusing on that match instead of this one. JangBi has had nothing for the entire month.
Lol Stork is going to win. Last is untested against Protoss, the map is Shades, and Stork is still pretty damn strong in PvT regardless. I'm not going to do statistics for this one.
This in my opinion will be the game of the night. This game will pretty much decide Khan's fate. Calm, the man who silently climbed to 7 in this month's Power Rank, versus FBH... Who hasn't been doing well lately. Despite Calm's record, I think the map is going to play into this match heavily. The last match I saw Calm play on a macro map like Neo Harmony was umm... 3 months ago? Frankly, I haven't seen Calm play too many games that aren't 2 Hatch. I haven't seen FBH play on a map that actually encourages standard bio play since... 5 months ago. Neo Harmony requires a completely different style than what we've lately been seeing. I'm interested to see this one.
Khan 4-0 Great finally reminds himself that he's great at ZvZ and gets revenge on by.hero by mercilessly raping him, the rest of games needs no explanation.
Now that I look at it, a 4-0 win by KHAN is plausible. In fact, a couple months ago, with these lineups KHAN would have won for sure. Now, I'm expecting a 4-2 win by STX. A lot is riding on by.hero vs great and Kal vs JangBi.
Sorry im a KHAN fan ( more like a Stork fan ) but lets be realistic.... can anyone see STX losing to KHAN at all?...
Their ex top player Jangbi is slumping so hard lately and Stork is the only guy thats been kinda doing good. And FBH i know he is good tvt and tvz and ridiculosly bad tvp but can you see him wining vs Calm who is tearing everything lately. Great can pull an upset but highly unlikely. Rest 2 guys are autolose for sure Hwasin and Shutle will wipe those scrubs so easy.
So the realistic result should be 5-1 for STX at best 4-2 everything else would be an upset for me..
On July 18 2009 08:25 SkelA wrote: Sorry im a KHAN fan ( more like a Stork fan ) but lets be realistic.... can anyone see STX losing to KHAN at all?...
Their ex top player Jangbi is slumping so hard lately and Stork is the only guy thats been kinda doing good. And FBH i know he is good tvt and tvz and ridiculosly bad tvp but can you see him wining vs Calm who is tearing everything lately. Great can pull an upset but highly unlikely. Rest 2 guys are autolose for sure Hwasin and Shutle will wipe those scrubs so easy.
So the realistic result should be 5-1 for STX at best 4-2 everything else would be an upset for me..
You are not a Khan fan then... this thing could even go 4-0 for Khan... I just want to see more games.
On July 18 2009 09:15 cosiant wrote: Since Stork > Jaedong and Jaedong > anyone (except CuteAngeL), we can easily and logically conclude that Stork > anyone (except CuteAngeL).
And since Stork is KHAN, KHAN > anyone (except CuteAngeL). But CuteAngeL is from KHAN, thus KHAN > anyone.
On July 18 2009 09:15 cosiant wrote: Since Stork > Jaedong and Jaedong > anyone (except CuteAngeL), we can easily and logically conclude that Stork > anyone (except CuteAngeL).
And since Stork is KHAN, KHAN > anyone (except CuteAngeL). But CuteAngeL is from KHAN, thus KHAN > anyone.
On July 18 2009 09:15 cosiant wrote: Since Stork > Jaedong and Jaedong > anyone (except CuteAngeL), we can easily and logically conclude that Stork > anyone (except CuteAngeL).
And since Stork is KHAN, KHAN > anyone (except CuteAngeL). But CuteAngeL is from KHAN, thus KHAN > anyone.
A very Khan-like rationale. By the Khan, For the Khan, OF the KHAN. Samsung KHAN WINS!!!!
The numbers inside parenthesis represent the player's record for the last 5 games played against the opponent's race in (W-L) format. The numbers between the above statistic represent the players' head to head record.
hero does have a better record, but if you look at who he's beaten, the only notables are Kwanro and... well... that's pretty much the only decent ZvZ player he's beaten. He did beat great before though on Neo Medusa, but the game is ZvZ, and anything can happen.
The statistics may say one thing, but look at the players that these guys have been facing. In his last 5 matches, Kal has beaten SangHo, free, Jangbi, and Horang2, and lost to BackHo. JangBi has been matched against Bisu 3 times, Kal, and Much. The game that JangBi won was against Bisu. Really, the last 5 matches don't say too much about how these guys are really performing in the match up. Kal's loss against BackHo was against 1 freaking DT. JangBi's loss to Bisu was... well... against Bisu. However, one major factor that JangBi has over Kal is preparation time. For the last week, Kal had to face Jaedong in the MSL, and he was probably focusing on that match instead of this one. JangBi has had nothing for the entire month.
Lol Stork is going to win. Last is untested against Protoss, the map is Shades, and Stork is still pretty damn strong in PvT regardless. I'm not going to do statistics for this one.
This in my opinion will be the game of the night. This game will pretty much decide Khan's fate. Calm, the man who silently climbed to 7 in this month's Power Rank, versus FBH... Who hasn't been doing well lately. Despite Calm's record, I think the map is going to play into this match heavily. The last match I saw Calm play on a macro map like Neo Harmony was umm... 3 months ago? Frankly, I haven't seen Calm play too many games that aren't 2 Hatch. I haven't seen FBH play on a map that actually encourages standard bio play since... 5 months ago. Neo Harmony requires a completely different style than what we've lately been seeing. I'm interested to see this one.
The numbers inside parenthesis represent the player's record for the last 5 games played against the opponent's race in (W-L) format. The numbers between the above statistic represent the players' head to head record.
hero does have a better record, but if you look at who he's beaten, the only notables are Kwanro and... well... that's pretty much the only decent ZvZ player he's beaten. He did beat great before though on Neo Medusa, but the game is ZvZ, and anything can happen.
The statistics may say one thing, but look at the players that these guys have been facing. In his last 5 matches, Kal has beaten SangHo, free, Jangbi, and Horang2, and lost to BackHo. JangBi has been matched against Bisu 3 times, Kal, and Much. The game that JangBi won was against Bisu. Really, the last 5 matches don't say too much about how these guys are really performing in the match up. Kal's loss against BackHo was against 1 freaking DT. JangBi's loss to Bisu was... well... against Bisu. However, one major factor that JangBi has over Kal is preparation time. For the last week, Kal had to face Jaedong in the MSL, and he was probably focusing on that match instead of this one. JangBi has had nothing for the entire month.
Lol Stork is going to win. Last is untested against Protoss, the map is Shades, and Stork is still pretty damn strong in PvT regardless. I'm not going to do statistics for this one.
This in my opinion will be the game of the night. This game will pretty much decide Khan's fate. Calm, the man who silently climbed to 7 in this month's Power Rank, versus FBH... Who hasn't been doing well lately. Despite Calm's record, I think the map is going to play into this match heavily. The last match I saw Calm play on a macro map like Neo Harmony was umm... 3 months ago? Frankly, I haven't seen Calm play too many games that aren't 2 Hatch. I haven't seen FBH play on a map that actually encourages standard bio play since... 5 months ago. Neo Harmony requires a completely different style than what we've lately been seeing. I'm interested to see this one.
On July 18 2009 12:04 AlwaysGG wrote: lmao the guy is heavy khan fanboyism.
well i guess it doesn't hurt to dream but i sorry khan is not gonna go over stx lol
firebathero vs july at ace? LOL pure dream.
i expect last drop a match and hero , kal clam hwasin would just win.
fbh jangbi stork trio is not just as strong anymore they are in a slump but i sure stork will win tho and perhaps jangbi it depends.
mmm yeah im very biased and a heavy fan of Khan (and FBH) but that ace match its not a dream... you see andromeda its a very good map for toss and zergs, the "best" players from Khan are toss and the best player against Toss on STX its July (and he is not on the lineup) I think that the chances that he is send on that match are high, Khan its going to be smart and send FBH.. cus Stork and Jangbi weakest MU are vZ, and July weakest MU its vT.
I think by.hero is STX's go-to-guy for ZvP over July. I know, it sounds crazy, but it's how I've seen STX seeding their players. And by.hero's the guy who knocked Bisu out of the MSL last season. He's def got what it takes.
And I think his late-game macro play is stronger than July's. Which is what Andromeda tends to favor.
On July 18 2009 12:19 BisuBoi wrote: I think by.hero is STX's go-to-guy for ZvP over July. I know, it sounds crazy, but it's how I've seen STX seeding their players. And by.hero's the guy who knocked Bisu out of the MSL last season. He's def got what it takes.
And I think his late-game macro play is stronger than July's. Which is what Andromeda tends to favor.
Hero's vp record isnt impressive while July's is impeccable and has proven absolute dominance in the match up. July is also 8-0 on Andromeda, if there is a trademark map for July in the current pool it's most definitely Andromeda.
On July 18 2009 12:19 BisuBoi wrote: I think by.hero is STX's go-to-guy for ZvP over July. I know, it sounds crazy, but it's how I've seen STX seeding their players. And by.hero's the guy who knocked Bisu out of the MSL last season. He's def got what it takes.
And I think his late-game macro play is stronger than July's. Which is what Andromeda tends to favor.
Hero's vp record isnt impressive while July's is impeccable and has proven absolute dominance in the match up. July is also 8-0 on Andromeda, if there is a trademark map for July in the current pool it's most definitely Andromeda.
I stand corrected. You're right. I guess by.hero's 4-0ing Bisu just left a greater impact in my mind. Def not arguing that July's a ZvP master though. He is without doubt.
Hmm..... I think..... (and normally I don't think) this game may actually be a close match, I am impressed the amazing tactic by January and her picks of lineup but then again, we're talking STX..... so Ace!
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
I would say he's burying his face in disappointment rather than crying.
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
What happens when a goalie lets in the kick that wins the game?
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
What happens when a goalie lets in the kick that wins the game?
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
What happens when a goalie lets in the kick that wins the game?
theres always time left to score goal and even it out.at least thats what they tell players in GB
On July 18 2009 13:23 samachking wrote: That was some unlucky timing by hero attacking when great's 0-1 finishes, lucky comeback from great. Go KHAN DESTROY THESE NEWBIES
Why when JD does this, it's called brilliance. Great does it and it's luck? Upgrades don't make themselves you know.
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
What happens when a goalie lets in the kick that wins the game?
theres always time left to score goal and even it out.at least thats what they tell players in GB
Simply a comparison, for all hero knows he just cost his team their spot in the finals and like it was stated earlier it's possible he just buried his head in disappointment.
On July 18 2009 13:23 samachking wrote: That was some unlucky timing by hero attacking when great's 0-1 finishes, lucky comeback from great. Go KHAN DESTROY THESE NEWBIES
Why when JD does this, it's called brilliance. Great does it and it's luck? Upgrades don't make themselves you know.
It depends, JD attacks when his 0-1 finishes, from this post I got the impression that by.hero decided to mass and attack right when great's 0-1 finishes, not the other way around.
Khan 4-0 incoming . Only fools doubt Jangbi's PvP, hes only been losing huge bo disadvantages and bo losses, only bisu rivals him in a straight up game.
On July 18 2009 13:51 samachking wrote: Khan 4-0 incoming . Only fools doubt Jangbi's PvP, hes only been losing huge bo disadvantages and bo losses, only bisu rivals him in a straight up game.
that win was mostly because of positional imbalance - that initial reaver of jangbis killed like 5 probes and from then on it was pretty one sided in jangbi's favor.
On July 18 2009 13:53 lazz wrote: that win was mostly because of positional imbalance - that initial reaver of jangbis killed like 5 probes and from then on it was pretty one sided in jangbi's favor.
posts like these make me lol. not only when it's jangbi/KHAN but anyone who plays very well and some idiot just refuses to give credit
Well, I mean, it's really hard to predict how it would've turned out if the positions had been reversed - Jangbi was basically able to run shuttles in and out of kal's base all game, and that Kal held it off for so long is to his credit as well.
man im so pissed right now. hero attacks 10 seconds too late and he loses the game then kal gets a sorta crappy position and gets just fucking rolled after that reaver shot killed like 8 probes.
haha i feel you Ideas, both were "ah wtf" matches. did the reaver really kill that many? i assumed around 4 or so. i still don't get how that accounts for a lot more goons and an expo from jangbi though.
On July 18 2009 14:02 Ideas wrote: man im so pissed right now. hero attacks 10 seconds too late and he loses the game then kal gets a sorta crappy position and gets just fucking rolled after that reaver shot killed like 8 probes.
On July 18 2009 14:02 Ideas wrote: man im so pissed right now. hero attacks 10 seconds too late and he loses the game then kal gets a sorta crappy position and gets just fucking rolled after that reaver shot killed like 8 probes.
same, 0/2 predictions in this match so far haha + Show Spoiler +
On July 18 2009 14:05 OneOther wrote: haha i feel you Ideas, both were "ah wtf" matches. did the reaver really kill that many? i assumed around 4 or so. i still don't get how that accounts for a lot more goons and an expo from jangbi though.
The probes needed to be rebuilt by Kal and he lost the money they would have potentially earned him so those probes ended up dealing a lot more damage than they should have.
On July 18 2009 14:05 OneOther wrote: haha i feel you Ideas, both were "ah wtf" matches. did the reaver really kill that many? i assumed around 4 or so. i still don't get how that accounts for a lot more goons and an expo from jangbi though.
The probes needed to be rebuilt by Kal and he lost the money they would have potentially earned him so those probes ended up dealing a lot more damage than they should have.
it was so early in the game compared to when you usually lose that many probes from a reaver that it REALLY added up :\
On July 18 2009 14:05 OneOther wrote: haha i feel you Ideas, both were "ah wtf" matches. did the reaver really kill that many? i assumed around 4 or so. i still don't get how that accounts for a lot more goons and an expo from jangbi though.
The positions, Kal couldn't use his reaver to harass that early while jangbi could do so and still use his reaver for defense really easily, so Kal couldn't attack. I think it was like 6 probes, which exponentially adds up as the game goes on.
On July 18 2009 14:05 OneOther wrote: haha i feel you Ideas, both were "ah wtf" matches. did the reaver really kill that many? i assumed around 4 or so. i still don't get how that accounts for a lot more goons and an expo from jangbi though.
The probes needed to be rebuilt by Kal and he lost the money they would have potentially earned him so those probes ended up dealing a lot more damage than they should have.
it was so early in the game compared to when you usually lose that many probes from a reaver that it REALLY added up :\
meh losing 4 probes around that timing doesn't add up anywhere close to the gap between jangbi and kal that game. (i understand the remaking/potential gathering part, i play a lot of pvps at a decently high level) either way, it felt like jangbi was on top of kal the entire time :D
On July 18 2009 14:17 Itachii wrote: Khan does everything to fuck me up, wtf Yeah Stork, lose PvT to some B terran, then FBH bbs Calm and they are good to go. -_______-
So fucking true -0_0- I'm 0-3 now for predictions -_-
Lol Stork is going to win. Last is untested against Protoss, the map is Shades, and Stork is still pretty damn strong in PvT regardless. I'm not going to do statistics for this one.
I love when brave people stick their neck out in the OP and make confident predictions, because everyone (ok, Konadora mostly) gets it wrong all the time.
I never understand why people ever say things like "now Stork is playing, he will deliver". Like, Stork is a great player, but he's pretty much the last S-class player you ever want to bet your life on for anything.
Jesus T.T. That was some pure all in by Last, well executed all in, he cut many scvs and refused to build a cc and got a wraith pretty quick, if Stork opted for reaver before obs things wouldve been different T.T.
Lol Stork is going to win. Last is untested against Protoss, the map is Shades, and Stork is still pretty damn strong in PvT regardless. I'm not going to do statistics for this one.
I love when brave people stick their neck out in the OP and make confident predictions, because everyone (ok, Konadora mostly) gets it wrong all the time.
I never understand why people ever say things like "now Stork is playing, he will deliver". Like, Stork is a great player, but he's pretty much the last S-class player you ever want to bet your life on for anything.
Stork is literally the worst, but Best protoss ever. He somehow accomplishes it. I sometimes wonder if he, Kal, and Backho came from the same family or something.
I never understand why people ever say things like "now Stork is playing, he will deliver". Like, Stork is a great player, but he's pretty much the last S-class player you ever want to bet your life on for anything.
If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
I meant that he should've moved out with his first goon really. Might not have changed the result of the game, but would've given him more warning that something was up.
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
I meant that he should've moved out with his first goon really. Might not have changed the result of the game, but would've given him more warning that something was up.
i agree. just pressuring and annoying him with a dragoon or two (jangbi does this often and well) can help surprisingly a lot. i guess stork played it TOO safely
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
I meant that he should've moved out with his first goon really. Might not have changed the result of the game, but would've given him more warning that something was up.
i agree. just pressuring and annoying him with a dragoon or two (jangbi does this often and well) can help surprisingly a lot. i guess stork played it TOO safely
I also think he should've canceled his nexus and thrown down a third gateway. I don't really disagree with anything else he did that game though.
No wonder he was put out against Stork. He was training all week for that shitty 2 fact trash-of-a-push into the small choke of the natural. Once he took control of that, there's basically no way for toss to come out.
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
I meant that he should've moved out with his first goon really. Might not have changed the result of the game, but would've given him more warning that something was up.
i agree. just pressuring and annoying him with a dragoon or two (jangbi does this often and well) can help surprisingly a lot. i guess stork played it TOO safely
I also think he should've canceled his nexus and thrown down a third gateway. I don't really disagree with anything else he did that game though.
i missed this in the game but wasn't the nexus finished before the push arrived? i thought he went one gate robo expo, but exactly sure
On July 18 2009 14:22 Nevuk wrote: If stork had semi-contained the terran with his initial goons, that push wouldn't have worked nearly as well (could've kited the rines and vults all the way to his main).
He couldnt do this because he ate that mine early on and had half-hp goons across the board, the two tanks would have ripped them apart.
I meant that he should've moved out with his first goon really. Might not have changed the result of the game, but would've given him more warning that something was up.
i agree. just pressuring and annoying him with a dragoon or two (jangbi does this often and well) can help surprisingly a lot. i guess stork played it TOO safely
I also think he should've canceled his nexus and thrown down a third gateway. I don't really disagree with anything else he did that game though.
i missed this in the game but wasn't the nexus finished before the push arrived? i thought he went one gate robo expo, but exactly sure
No, it was still finishing when he saw the initial push.
On July 18 2009 14:23 NO MY LIQUIBET wrote: Stork, you knew that first mine was there and you even has a zealot to absorb it. Why didn't you do the smart thing?
Please, stop senselessly bashing stork when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. He obviously only thought there was a single mine there, and had the zealot absorb it.
Stork played extremely well after the bad bit of luck initially (not only was his build disadvantageous against 2 fact, but his goons were all damaged). He let the natural nexus finish so that the t would go for it, and thus advance more slowly to that point of death where the high ground tank can hit the mineral line. Then, he tried to send the probe out for a secret expo, which unfortunately got scouted by a vulture passing through at the right time. Stork also did the absolute best tactic in that spot, which was to counter the terran directly, and it nearly worked.
Every stork loss seems to be a launching platform for clueless people to make fun of him, and I just don't get it.
FBH screws up and loses 2 vessels to scourge. Calm sneaks a small force into FBH's natural. FBH didn't lose too much from that. FBH pushing towards calm's 3rd again.
Calm uses an irradiated defiler to push into calm's natural... again. Not sure how FBH is going to get out of his mess unless he gets some major drops in.
<STX_Calm> ahahaha january smiling <GogoKodo> even january is smirking <MOnokeros> SHE WAS LAUGHING <Fantacy> khan coach seems to be happy <MOnokeros> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA <cjstx-ghostwrit> DAMNT <cjstx-ghostwrit> WAIT TIL TOMMORROW FBH WILL SHOW ALL YOU KIDS <MOnokeros> no face palm shes just like LOL u got PWND
It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
On July 18 2009 14:55 motbob wrote: <STX_Calm> ahahaha january smiling <GogoKodo> even january is smirking <MOnokeros> SHE WAS LAUGHING <Fantacy> khan coach seems to be happy <MOnokeros> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA <cjstx-ghostwrit> DAMNT <cjstx-ghostwrit> WAIT TIL TOMMORROW FBH WILL SHOW ALL YOU KIDS <MOnokeros> no face palm shes just like LOL u got PWND
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
Eh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think FBH, when he was really raping, was better than Hwasin. But Hwasin definitely has the better history and was really good at that time.
He was an overall weaker Terran than Hwasin because Hwasin doesn't autolose to protoss, though.
no, even when you go 5rax against muta you need turrets. Especially against progamer-tier muta micro.
edit: I realize he was committed to 5-rax before he scanned. So basically I'm asking if 5rax is autoloss against lurker expo openings at the pro level.
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
Eh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think FBH, when he was really raping, was better than Hwasin. But Hwasin definitely has the better history and was really good at that time.
He was an overall weaker Terran than Hwasin because Hwasin doesn't autolose to protoss, though.
oh how i miss those days. i personally would have taken fbh over hwasin any day, because the guy had monster TvT and TvZ. his TvP has always sucked, but Hwasin's TvP/TvT were both mediocre. fbh please step it up :/
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
Eh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think FBH, when he was really raping, was better than Hwasin. But Hwasin definitely has the better history and was really good at that time.
He was an overall weaker Terran than Hwasin because Hwasin doesn't autolose to protoss, though.
in korea, there was a saying that 'if you want a free win against hwasin, dt drop him' thats how like every bad protoss managed to win against him, dt drop. that said, anything against fbh was pretty much autowin pvt anyway.
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
Eh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think FBH, when he was really raping, was better than Hwasin. But Hwasin definitely has the better history and was really good at that time.
He was an overall weaker Terran than Hwasin because Hwasin doesn't autolose to protoss, though.
in korea, there was a saying that 'if you want a free win against hwasin, dt drop him' thats how like every bad protoss managed to win against him, dt drop. that said, anything against fbh was pretty much autowin pvt anyway.
Well being bad against one unit isn't nearly as bad as being bad against the entire race. :3
On July 18 2009 14:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: It amuses me that this was once the man who destroyed not only Savior, but Jaedong with Battlecruisers and crazy, embarrassing play. This guy used to be #1 TvZ in the world, bar none.
Where's your rice, now, FBH?
tbh it was more him battling hwasin for the top spot of tvz hwasin's tvz back in the day was impeccably good.
Eh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think FBH, when he was really raping, was better than Hwasin. But Hwasin definitely has the better history and was really good at that time.
He was an overall weaker Terran than Hwasin because Hwasin doesn't autolose to protoss, though.
oh how i miss those days. i personally would have taken fbh over hwasin any day, because the guy had monster TvT and TvZ. his TvP has always sucked, but Hwasin's TvP/TvT were both mediocre. fbh please step it up :/
oh come on, in 2007 hwasin's tvt/tvp was pretty damn sick, and his tvt took down a lot of big names in 2008 :\
On July 18 2009 13:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: why are they always crying when they lose? Korean culture more accepting of males being, well, by western standards, pansies? o.O
What happens when a goalie lets in the kick that wins the game?
bunker being too far away didn't change the fact that it would have gotten owned before dealing any real damage anyway, losing those two marines was the end of it
Juni got his hive way too late. Now he loses all his tech, though eh now has about 12 guardians or so. Hwasin isn't taking out the ultralisk cavern for whatever reason.
Hwasin just surrounds the guardians and pwns them. GG soon.
even though July is 8-0 on andro or whatever I predict Calm going out in an ace match if it takes place just because 1) calm is much more well-rounded (not an almost auto-loss vs Zerg) and July is still putting all his time into GSL and not Proleague.
On July 18 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: even though July is 8-0 on andro or whatever I predict Calm going out in an ace match if it takes place just because 1) calm is much more well-rounded (not an almost auto-loss vs Zerg) and July is still putting all his time into GSL and not Proleague.
If real life is anything like the mystarcraft game july will be out on andromeda.
Shuttle is actually fairly good, from his recent matches. He hasn't lost a box to any terran except for flash this year, and the last one before that was to mind.
I actually expect STX to get as far as the finals. I'm not particularly hot for them, but this is a team that actually _has_ 6 decent well-above-average palyers. Not something you can say about many other teams. Definitely not Samsung.
Mines clear out the DT left in Miracle's base. DTs are raping the 5 tanks that Miracle sent out. Now down to four. Not sure what Miracle wants to accomplish from this. DTs again screwing him over. MIRACLE PUSHING INTO SHUTTLE'S MAIN!!!
On July 18 2009 15:45 GeLaar wrote: This is annoying. Samsung doesn't deserve an Ace match. They don't even deserve to lose this 4-3. 4-2 really seems just about right for this team.
Miracle is playing amazing, and so did Jangbi. FBH put up a decent fight. I think they deserve an ace match. Juni though...
I hope ace is july vs stork. I just loving seeing really onesided slaughters like that. Knowing ace matches though, it'll probably be like... great vs calm.
is it me or did shuttle even try to prepare for that rush with the spotter pylon and mining out the back early? too bad he didnt micro well enough and 1 mine hit like 4 goons
On July 18 2009 16:00 OmgIRok wrote: why not jangbi ace = =
Jangbi for ace would be suicide, keep in mind how strong of ZvP calm, by.hero, and July have and they are all good candidates for the ace with the only possible exception of by.hero
great isn't pumping any drones. Seems to be going pure mutas. Only 1 pair of scourge for him right now. Those are the only scourge on the map. Calm looks to be taking his nat, but the hatch only goes up now.
On July 18 2009 16:21 FearDarkness wrote: I saw calm shake his head earlier out of no where. Maybe he realized he accidentally went attack when it was too late.
well does it really matter? he had ups, great didn't? correct me if i am wrong
On July 18 2009 16:21 FearDarkness wrote: I saw calm shake his head earlier out of no where. Maybe he realized he accidentally went attack when it was too late.
well does it really matter? he had ups, great didn't? correct me if i am wrong
if i am correct i believe great attacked when he just got plus 1 cara....
Great attacked when his +1 weapon finished, right? He was going for that +1 Scourge + Muta timing from the start, it seemed. That's why he was hiding Mutas.
I think the key to Great's victory was him making calm think calm was ahead. When calm's ling saw great's mutas, it was less mutas than great really had (because great split them). this gave calm confidence to upgrade and expand. Little did he know that great was ahead in muta count and massing more.
I think July would be a much better ace choice vs Khan, simply because he doesn't fall for mind games at all, and much of great's zvz is based on them.
On July 18 2009 17:01 Mah Buckit! wrote: Calm needs a better team.
STX is the best team. And they actually play like a team, not like a training house for 1-2 good players, with scrubs to clean toilets and fill proleague race quotas.
lol at people saying STX has a good chance with the lineups tomorrow, Khan has a better advantage tomorrow than they had today. Today, Khan had 3 matches that would have been a reach to win: FBH vs Calm, Miracle vs Shuttle, and Juni vs Hwasin. Tomorrow Khan only has two reaches: juni vs calm, and yoon vs. Kal.
On July 18 2009 18:26 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: lol at people saying STX has a good chance with the lineups tomorrow, Khan has a better advantage tomorrow than they had today. Today, Khan had 3 matches that would have been a reach to win: FBH vs Calm, Miracle vs Shuttle, and Juni vs Hwasin. Tomorrow Khan only has two reaches: juni vs calm, and yoon vs. Kal.
STX should've seen Great coming for the Ace match, no way Khan would've sent in their protosses with the huge possibility of facing off against hero/July, or send out a badly slumping Firebathero.
Great job to Khan for pulling out the underdog win, with Miracle stepping up his game when it mattered the most. Even if they lose tomorrow, they have the advantage in Ace match imo
Other than ZvsP, July sucks so much, that's why he is rarely used by Stx since longtime. Stx almost makes a big supprise right there. Great job to Last for pulling out the underdog win,even though this is just not enough.
- by.hero looks to be quickly taking after his "ZvP only" master July. - great is awesome. - I did not expect Stork to lose, but Last's build was cute. It was like a fake fake double or something, with a wraith for the hell of it, and Stork got greedy. Word to Stork: don't expand fast when you can't scout. Also don't walk THREE dragoons into one spider mine. - I was right in expecting Hwasin to screw up and hand Juni the game (lolbunkerrush), but underestimated how bad Juni is. No zergling pressure, no muta harass, no army... dear lord. - Best TvZ we've seen from fbh in a while (at least up till he cut vessel production, what was that?), even if his control was a little off and he got his ass handed him by Calm. Note to fbh: you're better when you go bio. (Flash, you pay attention too.) - I think Shuttle didn't prepare for his game. He got absolutely trashed by a b-teamer with no wins against Protoss. Sure shuttle's not great against Terran, but seriously what was that?
- I think Shuttle didn't prepare for his game. He got absolutely trashed by a b-teamer with no wins against Protoss. Sure shuttle's not great against Terran, but seriously what was that?
I think this was mentioned during GOM too... of how unprepared shuttle seems to be sometimes.
On July 18 2009 17:01 Mah Buckit! wrote: Calm needs a better team.
STX is the best team. And they actually play like a team, not like a training house for 1-2 good players, with scrubs to clean toilets and fill proleague race quotas.
I disagree. During the fabled July vs Best OSL final, almost everyone from SKT showed up, and no one from STX showed up. Some team.
On July 18 2009 17:01 Mah Buckit! wrote: Calm needs a better team.
STX is the best team. And they actually play like a team, not like a training house for 1-2 good players, with scrubs to clean toilets and fill proleague race quotas.
I disagree. During the fabled July vs Best OSL final, almost everyone from SKT showed up, and no one from STX showed up. Some team.
I didn't see anyone from SKT in the Jaedong vs Fantasy finals though
On July 18 2009 17:01 Mah Buckit! wrote: Calm needs a better team.
STX is the best team. And they actually play like a team, not like a training house for 1-2 good players, with scrubs to clean toilets and fill proleague race quotas.
I disagree. During the fabled July vs Best OSL final, almost everyone from SKT showed up, and no one from STX showed up. Some team.
I didn't see anyone from SKT in the Jaedong vs Fantasy finals though
SKT1 coach didn't want Bisu's O Face to have a sequel.
On July 18 2009 23:09 Sprite wrote: great has really just become khan's go-to zerg now!
Um. KHAN Zergs are basically just as bad as SK Zergs, except for great. See, this season:
great - 27-17 (2-2 ace). All Other KHAN Zergs - 8-18 (no ace games).
So it's more like great has proved he's a go-to player - if KHAN's needed a Zerg to win, they don't have any other options, he's been the go-to Zerg by default all year.
err Khan, err great winning 2 ZvZ's? nice job guys! except for Stork whom destroyed my fantasyPL playoffs first round quite nice by losing to someone whom played his first TvP or so ;<
On July 18 2009 19:17 OneOther wrote: jangbi's PvZ is good (although he's been dying to lame cheese lately lol)
oh and I like tomorrow's lineup better for KHAN than today's :o
Dunno about that, I did like yesterday's matchups for Khan better. Yesterday's lineup had Khan with a shot for a 4-0 with Great/Jangbi/Stork/FBH playing favorable matchups. Only the latter two matchups did I think were auto-losses.
Today though you have Kal against one of Khan's weaker players, and Calm playing Juni. Plus, Jangbi has to play by.hero in a PvZ, so that's not gonna be easy. But meh, stuff happens. FBH and Stork are gonna have to step up their game and try to get this to the closer.
But I do believe the Ace match favors Khan and their protosses quite a bit, so we'll see.
- by.hero looks to be quickly taking after his "ZvP only" master July. - great is awesome. - I did not expect Stork to lose, but Last's build was cute. It was like a fake fake double or something, with a wraith for the hell of it, and Stork got greedy. Word to Stork: don't expand fast when you can't scout. Also don't walk THREE dragoons into one spider mine. - I was right in expecting Hwasin to screw up and hand Juni the game (lolbunkerrush), but underestimated how bad Juni is. No zergling pressure, no muta harass, no army... dear lord. - Best TvZ we've seen from fbh in a while (at least up till he cut vessel production, what was that?), even if his control was a little off and he got his ass handed him by Calm. Note to fbh: you're better when you go bio. (Flash, you pay attention too.) - I think Shuttle didn't prepare for his game. He got absolutely trashed by a b-teamer with no wins against Protoss. Sure shuttle's not great against Terran, but seriously what was that?
It had nothing to do with preparation. The guy went for a hanbang rush and Shuttle walked on one unlucky mine. He died the same way Stork did.
On July 19 2009 02:51 cgrinker wrote: In the words of Kirk
KHHHHAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!
fixed
I watched this on my TV while I was going to sleep. First Proleague matches I've watched on my TV, very entertaining. The User Streams are the best thing to happen to TL since TSL! ^_^
On July 18 2009 19:35 geod wrote: Other than ZvsP, July sucks so much, that's why he is rarely used by Stx since longtime. Stx almost makes a big supprise right there. Great job to Last for pulling out the underdog win,even though this is just not enough.
July is much better under pressure then any of STX's current players. In an Ace match you want someone who can mindfuck their opponent.
On July 18 2009 19:35 geod wrote: Other than ZvsP, July sucks so much, that's why he is rarely used by Stx since longtime. Stx almost makes a big supprise right there. Great job to Last for pulling out the underdog win,even though this is just not enough.
July is much better under pressure then any of STX's current players. In an Ace match you want someone who can mindfuck their opponent.
Khan is almost guaranteed to send out great again in an ace match with the rest of their lineup doing so bad and great being so bizarrely good vs STX zergs. Plus you can't do many mindgames in ZvZ....
I'd expect either Calm again or hwasin/kal for a vs Z snipe.
On July 19 2009 03:21 SuperArc wrote: yeah I want to know why July wasnt sent out...
Have you seen his muta micro? No amount of mind fuck is going to save you in a ZvZ once mutas come into play if you can't muta micro well. Calm didn't lose to mind fuck, what he lost to was mismicro at the crucial moment. He ate like 6 scourge in the face. Before that, he was ahead in every single facet of the game.
On July 19 2009 03:21 SuperArc wrote: yeah I want to know why July wasnt sent out...
Have you seen his muta micro? No amount of mind fuck is going to save you in a ZvZ once mutas come into play if you can't muta micro well. Calm didn't lose to mind fuck, what he lost to was mismicro at the crucial moment. He ate like 6 scourge in the face. Before that, he was ahead in every single facet of the game.
It wasn't clear that his muta count was higher. It clearly was at one time, but great's hidden mutas made Calm overconfident and put him into macro mode, where he expanded and possibly used some of his larvae for drones.
On July 19 2009 03:21 SuperArc wrote: yeah I want to know why July wasnt sent out...
Have you seen his muta micro? No amount of mind fuck is going to save you in a ZvZ once mutas come into play if you can't muta micro well. Calm didn't lose to mind fuck, what he lost to was mismicro at the crucial moment. He ate like 6 scourge in the face. Before that, he was ahead in every single facet of the game.
It wasn't clear that his muta count was higher. It clearly was at one time, but great's hidden mutas made Calm overconfident and put him into macro mode, where he expanded and possibly used some of his larvae for drones.
I think the main reason calm expanded was because he had like 4 more drones than great and had a lot of minerals building up compared to gas.
On July 19 2009 04:08 SuperArc wrote: last time July was underestimated he won an OSL... (he was in zerg group)
Lol yeah man, taking one game off lux over a year ago cements you as a ZvZ ace. A current 6 game losing streak vZ doesn't mean nothing by comparison.
I know you are a fellow Khan fan.. but dont take July for a scrub... when he wants he could win the proleague alone by himself. And this is HIS month so he is the safest choice for anything SC related =D
On July 19 2009 04:08 SuperArc wrote: last time July was underestimated he won an OSL... (he was in zerg group)
Lol yeah man, taking one game off lux over a year ago cements you as a ZvZ ace. A current 6 game losing streak vZ doesn't mean nothing by comparison.
I know you are a fellow Khan fan.. but dont take July for a scrub... when he wants he could win the proleague alone by himself. And this is HIS month so he is the safest choice for anything SC related =D
haha true, it IS July... But I still wouldn't have picked July over Calm. I mean what does July bring to the table that Calm doesn't? calm's just as good vs P and is a good bit better vT. If they brought out FBH to snipe July, Calm would have shut that down. Kal wouldn't work because Jangbi would rip him a new one. And by.hero isn't good enough vs Terran. Damn STX does have a beastly zerg line tho...
By.great's games were just great. The ace match final battle had me going 'wtf' the whole time. I thought great was waiting for an upgrade to finish, but it never came. I also thought he was slightly behind in econ, upgrades, and 1 less muta behind the whole time. Really nice game for ace.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/10.jpg)
by.hero < Heartbreak Ridge > 
Kal < Neo Medusa > 
Last < Shades of Twilight > ![[image loading]](http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1505/ec9db4ec84b1ec9d80jx4.gif)
![[image loading]](http://xs541.xs.to/xs541/09295/fbh1888.jpg)
) but lets be realistic.... can anyone see STX losing to KHAN at all?... ![[image loading]](http://i32.tinypic.com/1493tsg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/323/vlcsnap00001bsm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://xs141.xs.to/xs141/09296/vlcsnap-476974364.png)
![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4898/januaryfacepalm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/GFhype/Untitled1SDFA_copy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/bitethewaxtadpole/stxcoach.jpg)
