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On July 06 2009 21:11 dasanivan wrote:
in the mvp interview Kal expressed how the young Flash is precious to him and how he's worried for Flash, who lost twice. i guess he pretty much feels sorry that stx ground flash and his team into the ground on his birthday, just as ktf got a glimmer of hope to reach the playoffs.
And that's why Kal is one of my favourite players.
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I almost feel sorry for Flash... almost.
Awesome comeback from STX!
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On July 06 2009 21:24 geod wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:16 dasanivan wrote:On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote:
And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore. flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins. how exactly do you win with skill alone? Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D
i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal.
the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran.
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On July 06 2009 21:29 dasanivan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:24 geod wrote:On July 06 2009 21:16 dasanivan wrote:On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote:
And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore. flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins. how exactly do you win with skill alone? Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal. the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran.
Are you implying that Yellow[arnc] is S-class, while Flash is not? lol
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On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote:
as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that
"will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu...
Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Something thats also pretty interesting: Whenever S-class players like Jaedong/Bisu/Flash lose.. its kinda interesting how its always their fault, it's never cause their opponent played great... weird isnt it
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007.
No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game.
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Voted for KT, but I'm really happy STX won 
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On July 06 2009 21:35 MrHoon wrote:
Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007.
No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game.
Why on earth did Flash take yarnc over to his group then ? O_o
(I do agree with you though)
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On July 06 2009 21:31 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote:
as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form. Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage. I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" have a point. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
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On July 06 2009 21:31 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:29 dasanivan wrote:On July 06 2009 21:24 geod wrote:On July 06 2009 21:16 dasanivan wrote:On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote:
And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore. flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins. how exactly do you win with skill alone? Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal. the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran. Are you implying that Yellow[arnc] is S-class, while Flash is not? lol
i didn't mean to associate yellow with S-class players, but his aggressive play is about what it takes to take out flash before midgame, so i mentioned him.
and I'm afraid I do have to say that Flash is among the weak S class players, except versus Terran.
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On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
That's exactly why we criticize.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On July 06 2009 21:36 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:35 MrHoon wrote:
Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007.
No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game. Why on earth did Flash take yarnc over to his group then ? O_o (I do agree with you though)
I am assuming you are talking about the MSL where yarnc just DESTROYED flash
This was the reason
Flash: "lol lux couldnt com 2 msl so i pik brother insted"
Yellow: "my brother sux mor than me why u pik me fool?"
Flash: "fuck really?"
Yellow: "LOL I KILL U WITH ONLY MUTALISKS AND NO SPIRES"
Flash: "omg D:"
edit: I think I'm going to write an article about Flash sometime this week. I want to study how hard he is failing
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At least Flash has been owning in TvT lately. He has beaten all te top TvTer out there nd sits at ridiculous 70.5% winrate. But the other two match-ups don't look that good. Especially his TvZ.
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On July 06 2009 21:36 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:31 7mk wrote:On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote:
as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form. On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage. I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" are right. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
Well who exactly can say that he wins games against the best of the best really regularly?
Jaedong and...
hm
and I dont see whats specifically so painful about flash's losing games - maybe if flash had killed those observers with his goliaths after he scanned Kal hadnt done this wonderfully executed attack and if you just let flash do his thing without being very aggressive in PvT its almost impossible to win against him.
Flash sometimes is a bit greedy yes, now compare that do Jaedong, he is sometimes overly aggressive .. look at JD vs Stork, to me that game was a lot more painful to watch, but hes still undoubtedly S class.
Also whats the reason Jaedong lost vs movie? Right, he was too greedy to get ling speed.
But for some reason as soon as flash loses games (hello hes still in OSL and GOM tv by the way and his MSL group was ridiculously tough) people claim hes stupid.
Seems like noone even remembers games like FBH vs Flash as soon as he loses.
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On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
Flash IMO is absolutely the best at bashing lesser players. If you don't have the mechanics to keep up with Flash, then he can literally just pick you apart like nothing. I've seen so many TvPs where the protoss gets a big advantage early game. But then Flash push -> GG. That's why he's unbeatable TvT, because the matchup is so based on making reactionary decisions and ability to control the map. Something that Flash excels at. I am constantly amazed at how well he can control the situation at any given time.
But I still can't say Flash is favored TvZ and TvP over the top zergs and protosses. Because in those matchups, opponents can counter Flash's build specifically. And S-class ZvT/PvT players do have the mechanics to keep up with flash. And that plus they can guess Flash's intentions, give them a huge edge.
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TvT is the only S-class matchup Flash has atm.
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Don't you think the Flash bashing is getting a bit too harsh?
Being a Flash fan I have to admit, his play hasn't been top notch,
I had the gut feeling that he would lose to Kal and I was tedious when I saw him do his new build vs Calm. But seriously man, Flash is playing in every single PL game, OSL, MSL GOM (3 individual leagues) His play hasn't been S-class is probably do to fatigue and perhaps lack of practice.
Yes you can argue Jaedong is in the same position as he is, But haven't you watched Stork vs Jaedong? It was pathetic, but I don't see anybody flaming him. Kal and Calm basically exploited Flash's weakness in his builds. Let's just hope Flash can get things together and concentrate on the individual leagues now KT doesn't have a chance to get to the playoffs. (Ironically, thanks to him)
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I also like Flash but he isn't doing that well. It's not only fatigue, but his generally greedy playstyle that really screws him over. :/
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On July 06 2009 21:44 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 21:36 Malinor wrote:On July 06 2009 21:31 7mk wrote:On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote:
as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form. On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote:
I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage. I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" are right. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch. Well who exactly can say that he wins games against the best of the best really regularly? Jaedong and... hm and I dont see whats specifically so painful about flash's losing games - maybe if flash had killed those observers with his goliaths after he scanned Kal hadnt done this wonderfully executed attack and if you just let flash do his thing without being very aggressive in PvT its almost impossible to win against him. Flash sometimes is a bit greedy yes, now compare that do Jaedong, he is sometimes overly aggressive .. look at JD vs Stork, to me that game was a lot more painful to watch, but hes still undoubtedly S class. Also whats the reason Jaedong lost vs movie? Right, he was too greedy to get ling speed. But for some reason as soon as flash loses games (hello hes still in OSL and GOM tv by the way and his MSL group was ridiculously tough) people claim hes stupid. Seems like noone even remembers games like FBH vs Flash as soon as he loses.
You have the leagues mixed up, he is in MSL Ro16 (and actually still can advance in the OSL, but it is unlikely).
And of course I agree, Kal played a wonderful game here, exploiting Flashs build perfectly with flawless execution.
For me it is rather simple: To be convinced that Flash is as good as we all think he is, he needs to go really far in individual leagues again. That is basically where I see the diffeence between Flash and other S-Class players right now: JD and Bisu recently won leagues, Fantasy was in two finals and so was Jangbi, although he is slumping at the moment (not counting GOM right here, beause I think the competition this season is rather lackluster there).Anyway, if I remember correctly, Flashs last semi final appearence was in ARENA MSL. that is a really long time ago in terms of pro starcraft.
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On July 06 2009 21:55 nozaro33 wrote:
Don't you think the Flash bashing is getting a bit too harsh?
Being a Flash fan I have to admit, his play hasn't been top notch,
I had the gut feeling that he would lose to Kal and I was tedious when I saw him do his new build vs Calm. But seriously man, Flash is playing in every single PL game, OSL, MSL GOM (3 individual leagues) His play hasn't been S-class is probably do to fatigue and perhaps lack of practice.
Yes you can argue Jaedong is in the same position as he is, But haven't you watched Stork vs Jaedong? It was pathetic, but I don't see anybody flaming him. Kal and Calm basically exploited Flash's weakness in his builds. Let's just hope Flash can get things together and concentrate on the individual leagues now KT doesn't have a chance to get to the playoffs. (Ironically, thanks to him)
you're right, stork vs jaedong was pretty horrific. its proof that even S class players can't win every single game, and flash is no exception.
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EPT
