| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Tadzio/LSMSL/mslbanner09.jpg) Banner made by Tadzio. Game 1:  NaDa < Byzantium 2 > FrOzean![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/en/gfx/nada1.jpg) Will the legendary Lee Yoon Yeol advance? Game 2: RuBy < Carthage > Canata![[image loading]](http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk5/neverggg/proleagueweek3/mascotoov/DSC_0463.jpg) Can he lose with Coach Choi's advice? Winners Set: < Neo Harmony > Losers Set: < Neo Harmony > Final Set: < Carthage > Results The StarCraft snooze-fest of the year! | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Predictions NaDa > FrOzeanRuBy < CanataFrOzean > RuByNaDa > CanataFrOzean > Canata | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
I feel bad for anyone watching this group its going to be a LONG night | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27149 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
TvT is my favorite matchup to play. But it tends to produce long games. If it was an all zerg group, you'd expect the average game to be <10 minutes But TvT can so often go to 40 or 50 minutes with battlecruisers and the whole map mined out. If you arent in the korean time zone you could be staying up a ton longer than normal. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
NaDa > FrOzeanRuBy > CanataNaDa > RuByFrOzean < CanataCanata < RuByNaDa and RuBy advanceI'm gonna be up all night, woot woot! :p | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13006 Posts
I'm expecting this to be about as inspiring and exciting as Dubya's memoirs. | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
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hsoul
Netherlands26 Posts
![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/board/news/1232584943_1.jpg) | ||
GTR
51449 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On January 22 2009 10:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: the art of making eyes bleed TvT is art, you guys just don't understand.  | ||
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Ideas
United States8098 Posts
This is the tester-hyun-midas group of the MSL lol | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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Ideas
United States8098 Posts
On January 22 2009 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote: the prospect of 5 TvTs in a row, possbly 2-3 with Canata (the master of long, drawn out half map split games) could make this last like 4 hours Group B might be delayed lol | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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littlechava
United States7218 Posts
Canata > RuByNaDa > FrOzeanCanata < NaDaRuBy > FrOzeanCanata > RuBy | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Ruby too! | ||
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
hope nada makes it, only person in this group with any talent | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Plz Nada, not like this. Blaze these guys at least. You can lose to a P anytime but all T group with -_-;; ro16ers... | ||
KizZBG
u gotta skate8152 Posts
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Shuffleus
Australia764 Posts
It's like Chess but where the players have a pair. | ||
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muramasa
Canada1299 Posts
NaDa and Canata to advance IMO. | ||
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Neo7
United States922 Posts
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On January 22 2009 12:12 Zozma wrote: I get the feeling I would like TvT if I could understand it, but I never have any idea who's winning or what the heck is going on. I could never play Terran. Yeah, it definitely does require more attention than other MUs. Mainly because there's never any decisive victories, and watching live cast/vod is difficult because the armies are split up and you're never sure where things are moving. It's the only matchup where I think the quality of the stream is incredibly important, because if I can't see a detailed minimap or the upgrades, it's hard to follow. | ||
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raiame
United States421 Posts
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TW WiNNinG 54
United States250 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
On January 22 2009 12:12 Zozma wrote: I get the feeling I would like TvT if I could understand it, but I never have any idea who's winning or what the heck is going on. I could never play Terran. The way I decide who is winning: Base counts (gas >minonly) Fact counts Army Dropship count Map control Very hard to get a formula as so many things constantly change. TvT, it's basically this: (After grabbing your nat) Get more bases. Contain (or gain map control, but securing mid is hard until you have high tank count) Dropship play The part that I find exciting about TvT is it's volatileness (I think this is the right word). Small things like killing tanks with 2 siege shots and a goli or a wraith add up. A dropship play can change the game around. The positioning of units is most important in TvT, including where mines are. But the downside is if it gets past midgame into map splitting, the games take SO LONG and sometimes even get draws, resulting in another TvT. An analogy may be like DBZ, where it takes episodes for a fight that is 10 minutes long to happen. (That 30-second long battlecruiser fight after 1 hour of stalemate.) EDIT: Also, Go | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
nada fighting!!!!!!!! i believe!!!!! | ||
LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
On January 22 2009 11:14 Ideas wrote: Maybe if the TvTvTvT group was Flash, Fantasy/ForGG, Leta and FBH I would want to watch more, but MEH I only care about nada :\ This is the tester-hyun-midas group of the MSL lol same for me !!! i don't want to jinx Nada, but Nada's 4th MSL is coming! | ||
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
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anTi_
United States499 Posts
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 11:46 KizZBG wrote: What I think of this group: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrBeTZfRqt0#t=0m18 BTW that is pretty freaking epic  . | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
and frozean FUCKING FAILING PLEASE | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
Anyone got links going for the games? | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 13:44 oneofthem wrote: canata is the clear choice to face down hyuk in the finals. so obviously it is canata's group to lose. LOL? Umm either you have the wrong group, you are mixing up your groups, or you are making a bad joke. SKT fails. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
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Nokeboy
United States1009 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:01 Nokeboy wrote: How do I watch it? Damn good question. Stream anyone? | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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skuj
United States302 Posts
just click p2p in IE | ||
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:02 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Even a daumsports link will make me a happy man. nope, not for group s | ||
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:02 skuj wrote: i think http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/ will work. just click p2p in IE This works for me but goes to a proleague game. Not the MSL one. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On January 22 2009 12:59 Corinthos wrote: Glad to see NaDa back in the MSL. Hope he pulls through ~ genius in his play. Canata... make up your mind please, boxer bring back some sense in him! O.O ADORABLE ICON | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
T_T | ||
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skuj
United States302 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:03 CZ4A wrote: This works for me but goes to a proleague game. Not the MSL one. yeah it says the right games under it, but its showing the wrong ones. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
I love it too. When did it change? | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:02 skuj wrote: i think http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/ will work. just click p2p in IE Thats not working. It is showing VODs. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:03 CZ4A wrote: This works for me but goes to a proleague game. Not the MSL one. same goes for me | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
is daum supposed to work/be a slideshow, or is this pot player | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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Jiiks
Finland487 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
YAY | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:10 Jiiks wrote: Try this on vlc: http://biz.vsdn.tv380.com/getplayurl.php?5B63686E5D445830303030303033317C3334357C317C313030307C706C7568675B2F63686E5DVSDNSOOONERCOM00 dosen't work for me | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:10 Jiiks wrote: Try this on vlc: http://biz.vsdn.tv380.com/getplayurl.php?5B63686E5D445830303030303033317C3334357C317C313030307C706C7568675B2F63686E5DVSDNSOOONERCOM00 Nope. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
tv ants is still loading, any suggestions? | ||
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triglo
12 Posts
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
edit: referring to http://yaoyuan.com/live.php | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:13 Oystein wrote: I miss corinthos. so do i | ||
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:13 Oystein wrote: I miss corinthos. +10000000000000000000 I left work early for this too. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:13 Oystein wrote: I miss corinthos. T_T' | ||
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:13 Oystein wrote: I miss corinthos. +82349871632948716324 NEED THE GAMEZ !!!!!  | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:15 Sulunais wrote: So, I'm in Korea and it's not on TV here. Maybe nobody wants to watch 4 hours of TvT... *blinks* any idea why? | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:15 Sulunais wrote: So, I'm in Korea and it's not on TV here. Maybe nobody wants to watch 4 hours of TvT... Maybe that's why Daum is showing random VODs of random games? | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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GTR
51449 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
but on daum player (slide show) i saw some commercial saying MSL NEXT but might be a re run | ||
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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GTR
51449 Posts
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d34gl3r
Korea (South)92 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:18 Domestica wrote: i dont want to get anyones hopes up but on daum player (slide show) i saw some commercial saying MSL NEXT but might be a re run it says nada's name in korean at the top right, so... | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:18 CZ4A wrote: I knew it. Which stream? Nada is way to popular to be pushed aside. they would have moved because of something that they couldn't control. no one likes moving stuff around. | ||
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
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GTR
51449 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 22일 오후 2시 시작될 예정이었던 로스트사가 MSL 32강 G조 경기가 갑작스런 방송장비 문제로 인해 지연 시작된다. MBC게임은 방송 자막을 통해 '로스트사가 MSL 32강 G조 경기를 오후 2시 15분에 시작한다'고 밝혔다. 문제는 컴퓨터 그래픽에 관련된 장비가 갑작스럽게 이상을 일으켰기 때문. 이로 인해 이윤열(위메이드), 김동건(삼성전자), 민찬기(MBC게임), 고인규(SK텔레콤)가 출전하는 로스트사가 MSL 32강 G조는 오후 2시 15분에 시작될 예정이다. | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
or anyone willing to explain how to find daumsport links? | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:21 KnightOfNi wrote: Stream anyone? yy tvants isn't working for me daum is laggy, but working | ||
Aesop
Hungary11291 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:23 SpiritAshura wrote: anyone have a daumsports link? or anyone willing to explain how to find daumsport links? There usually is no daumsports for MSL. Only for Proleague. | ||
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:23 Aesop wrote: There usually is no daumsports for MSL. Only for Proleague. ah crap you're right. k we're officially screwed without corinthos now. T_T | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:23 Aesop wrote: There usually is no daumsports for MSL. Only for Proleague. yes there is but it is laggy as fuck | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:24 koreasilver wrote: Is Canata still the best TvT player around? Or has he kinda fallen off that nowadays. Not even close. | ||
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jigga
Canada1141 Posts
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RivetHead
United States842 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:24 koreasilver wrote: Is Canata still the best TvT player around? Or has he kinda fallen off that nowadays. He was never the best tvt, its just supposedly his best matchup. | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
i'm not seeing it on daum sports. i bet you're talking about daum pot player -_- | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
The game JUST started for me. | ||
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Fag @ 1 | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:32 CZ4A wrote: Can we get some links to the streams? It's on the Daum Pot Player. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
Goodnight, Nada you'd better fucking beat the fag. LETA FTW | ||
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:28 ambit!ous1 wrote: Nada @ 11 Fag @ 1 lol. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Domestica
United States411 Posts
it looks over | ||
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=56443 Its working but very laggy. GG NADA WINS. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Nada wins | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Realpenguin
8253 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:35 repomaniak wrote: why there is so much laggg on daum pot player? I believe that they limit bandwidth to non-Asian IPs. It used to work fine for everyone back then, until they started doing this. | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Aesop
Hungary11291 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:35 repomaniak wrote: why there is so much laggg on daum pot player? They artificially restrict non-registered streams. Or something like that. | ||
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:37 Aesop wrote: They artificially restrict non-registered streams. Or something like that. How do you register to that daum sports site? | ||
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:37 Realpenguin wrote: I believe that they limit bandwidth to non-Asian IPs. It used to work fine for everyone back then, until they started doing this. so if someone get asian ip it will probably get better? | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
I think it's just where you are | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:40 dekuschrub wrote: damn too much lag for me to watch on my daum player same here but better than nothing i guess... | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
LR please! | ||
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Realpenguin
8253 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:41 repomaniak wrote: so if someone get asian ip it will probably get better? Yes, it runs with no lag if your IP is from Asia. (is this confirmed?) | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:45 Realpenguin wrote: Yes, it runs with no lag if your IP is from Asia. (is this confirmed?) You would think that if this was the only problem, we could get someone to hook up starcraft to justin.tv or something | ||
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renegade_zerg
Korea (South)525 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:45 Realpenguin wrote: Yes, it runs with no lag if your IP is from Asia. (is this confirmed?) confirmed | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
TvT...this should make for some nice background noise while I study | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Ruby vs Canata Ruby @ 11 Canata @ 5 Go Ruby! | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:45 Realpenguin wrote: Yes, it runs with no lag if your IP is from Asia. (is this confirmed?) I'm not sure about other parts of Asia, but a Chinese ISP(where I am), the daum player is just as bad as the west. I usually use yaoyuan or corinthos, but now that both are gone, I just don't bother anymore. | ||
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Kot
Australia148 Posts
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cunninglinguists
United States925 Posts
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iloveHieu
United States1919 Posts
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
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khy
United States475 Posts
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
So this should be exciting.... NaDa vs Canata..... *note* So happy I'm watching this on Live TV... =P | ||
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CZ4A
United States182 Posts
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Pioneer
994 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:02 CZ4A wrote: Use a South Korean proxy. I just set it up and Daum is lag free at the moment.. Instructions? | ||
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skuj
United States302 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:04 Pioneer wrote: I can't seem to find a p2p icon on the plu page, im i supposed to click one of the 3 add boxes in the center or one of the links around the webpage? plu is showing something else | ||
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Pioneer
994 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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Pioneer
994 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
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aZnvaLiaNce
United States942 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:09 QuickStriker wrote: I'm watching on LIVE TELEVISION since I happen to be overseas to Korea atm.... though starting next month, I have to be on the same boat like all of you back in NYC since that's my home... =( Then you LR | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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mmgoose
769 Posts
CANATA>RUBY | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: What the fuck? I liquibetted Ruby and Frozean? and who do you blame | ||
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Crippen
United States91 Posts
Here's a list of Korean proxies in case someone figures out how to run DAUM through one of 'em. http://www.xroxy.com/proxy-country-KR.htm | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:23 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: What the fuck? I liquibetted Ruby and Frozean? Sometimes I just liquibet stuff without even thinking about it, and realize far too late that my votes made no sense. I feel your pain. | ||
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
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mmgoose
769 Posts
i'd say mujuk. | ||
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cunninglinguists
United States925 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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Crippen
United States91 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Proposal
United States1310 Posts
nada qualifies | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Seriously, even if he's not you're favorite you gotta love NaDa. He's adorable, he's an incredible player, he won more tournaments than I can name, and he's just awesome. So consistent for a former bonjwa. Also that article about his dad's death and how he donated his winnings to a childrens hospital and his little poem on his internet cafe', shit was heartwarming. | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
It better be Nada =( | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
canata had him raped but let him get his 3rd up faster and then didnt have his turret line up in time so nada blocked canatas 4th/5th with dropships and then just rode the econ advantage. canata's siege came a bit too late so nada was able to push him back to the high ground, then he went 2 wraiths which didnt do anything. sucks for him, was real close to a sure win. he outa advance anyway. | ||
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mmgoose
769 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: NaDa is so likeable. Seriously, even if he's not you're favorite you gotta love NaDa. He's adorable, he's an incredible player, he won more tournaments than I can name, and he's just awesome. So consistent for a former bonjwa. Also that article about his dad's death and how he donated his winnings to a childrens hospital and his little poem on his internet cafe', shit was heartwarming. got a link to that (hopefully english) article? | ||
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d34gl3r
Korea (South)92 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65799 Read it if you like NaDa, or don't know much about him. | ||
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thestool91
672 Posts
On January 22 2009 10:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Predictions NaDa > FrOzeanRuBy < CanataFrOzean > RuByNaDa > CanataFrOzean > CanataNvm | ||
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Deletrious
United States458 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:24 Crippen wrote: Anyone know how to run DAUM player through a proxy? Here's a list of Korean proxies in case someone figures out how to run DAUM through one of 'em. http://www.xroxy.com/proxy-country-KR.htm I poked around with this, it seems to be F5, then second menu from right where you would type in a proxy. I tried two from the list you gave, has not helped. I may be doing it wrong. If anyone gets it too work please let people know how. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
These are my predictions. And they've been right so far :/ | ||
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Descent
1244 Posts
Frozean > RuBy is the set for those who went 0-1 in their first games. He just listed the 3rd and 4th sets in a different order. | ||
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mmgoose
769 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Here's that article. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65799 Read it if you like NaDa, or don't know much about him. thanks! | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
NADA > ANYTIME NADA > FROZEAN NADA > CANATA YAAAA : D 2009, comebackyear of nada gogogog :D | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 14:25 RivetHead wrote: He was never the best tvt, its just supposedly his best matchup. Actually, this is debatable. I'm going to make the argument that, in spring 2008, Canata had the world's strongest TvT.OK, take a trip in your wayback machine to February 14, 2008. Arena MSL qualifiers are underway and the 2008 Shinhan Bank Proleague is just about to commence. Canata is already recognized as a TvT sniper, but he's probably more famous for being the "failed" T1 Terran prodigy - never living up to his masters BoxeR and iloveoov. Anyway, Canata is playing in the MSL Survivor tournament and 2-0s his group - including a win against RuBy.From this point, Canata advances to 2-0 his Arena MSL group by owning Sea and UpMagiC who, at that point, were arguably two of the strongest TvT players out there. + Show Spoiler [NB] +Those MSL wins were wins 1, 4, and 5 of Canata's 10-game TvT winstreak. 2 and 3 were DarkElf and none other than Flash - and let's not forget that this was at exactly the time when Flash was absolutely indestructible. I mean this kid was fresh off his Bacchus OSL romp and he was playing flawlessly. And Canata comes out in the first match of the 2008 Proleague - a match for which Flash had no excuse not to be prepared - and just destroys the Ultimate Weapon in a straight up game. For some perspective, consider that Flash had won 5 games straight before this game with Canata - all vs.  Stork (GSI and Bacchus) - and after this game he went on to win 11 more games straight (including vs. Bisu in the ace game of the match in which Canata scored his win). In other words, were it not for Canata, Flash would have gone on a 17-game winstreak (ceteris paribus).This was not a case of 14cc -> BO loss from Flash - in fact, Flash proxied his first rax in the middle of the map and it was Canata who had to deal with early aggression. Basically, anyone who thinks Flash was the best TvT player at this time should watch this game. It's hard to argue with game results. Win 6 of Canata's streak was against fOrGG on Wuthering Heights, and let me tell you this game was a piece of art. Less than two months before fOrGG would 3-1 Flash in the Arena MSL (perhaps laying claim to "strongest TvT", if briefly - especially considering his ez pz 2-0 of Sea in the Ro16), Canata took him to school in a straight up domination. Early defense with flawless micro/repairing, transition into super-effective dropship play, well-timed expansions...this game was Canata's TvT at its peak. If you want to watch: Wins 7, 8, and 9 were cleanup against SaiR, GanZi, and Lomo in the Proleague. Let's not forget that this win against Lomo came less than a week before Lomo dropped 2-3 to Flash in the Arena MSL, meaning that Lomo was a) at the height of his SC career thus far and b) practicing TvT like a madman. Win 10 of Canata's TvT winstreak, which placed him in a tie for the longest TvT winstreak of all time, was a cakewalk against RuBy (who, coincidentally, was also the first victim of Canata's streak).Fittingly, it was the perennial TvT master Iris who broke Canata's streak in his next PL game (on July 1, 2008). However, Canata turned right around to beat go.go in T1's Proleague semifinal against OGN (T1 lost 3-4 when Bisu lost to  Luxury in the ace...the 2008 PL was a trying time for Bisu fans to say the least).I contend that, in spring 2008, for the duration of this 10-game winstreak, Canata was the best TvT player in the world. Who are the other contenders: Flash: undoubtedly the best player in the world over this period, however, see above: he lost to Canata. This should be enough said, but I'll pile on a bit more evidence. Flash went 10-4 against Terran over this period, which seems comparable to Canata's 10-0 considering how many games Flash was playing. However, his three non-Canata losses were to fOrGG, RuBy, and go.go - all players Canata beat over this period. Flash was also on the verge of proving that his TvT was quite mortal by squeaking past Lomo 3-2 and then dropping to fOrGG 1-3 in the Arena MSL.Sea: lost to Canata. Also lost to fOrGG in the Arena MSL in quite spectacular fashion.Iris: Iris has always been ridiculous at TvT (~57% winrate even now) but over this period in spring 2008 he was basically off the map - going 6-5 in PL and playing in only the GSI. Also, and this is pretty key, during Canata's TvT streak Iris went 1-5 against other Terrans. 4 of those losses were to Sea, Flash, UpMagiC and Lomo - all players that Canata beat during his streak.fOrGG: lost to Canata (again, see above).Lomo: lost to Canata (see above).UpMagiC: ditto.firebathero: purely from a subjective "game quality" standpoint, in spring 2008 I think FBH had the strongest TvT of any Terran that Canata did not beat. However, he also had some really ugly losses: to HiyA, TheStC, go.go, and fOrGG. Canata beat the latter two during his reign, and no doubt would have manhandled the former two.Mind: see above.Hwasin: Hwasin was playing decent TvT at this point. He went 9-4 while Canata went 10-0. However, Hwasin had the luxury of playing NaDa four times over this span (going 3-1). He also met powderpuffs Sunny, FrOzean, and Special. Hwasin's losses were to Mind, Sea, NaDa, and Midas - Canata owned Sea and was easily playing more convincing TvT than Mind or Midas at this point.Who's left? Just to be thorough, let's consult this thread for the players who boast a peak TvT ELO higher than Canata's, at the end of his 10-game streak. Canata's peak TvT ELO at that point was 2138, which puts him at the tenth-highest peak TvT ELO of all time. Who's ahead of him? Players I've already dismissed above are crossed out. XellOs: 2193NaDa: 2183iloveoov: 2159Goodfriend: 2153Casy: 2145Canata: 2138Note: some players' peak TvT ELOs may now be higher (Flash, Sea?) but that's irrelevant for the purposes of this post. That leaves XellOs, NaDa, iloveoov, Goodfriend, and Casy to challenge Canata for "best TvT" in June and July 2008. I hope I don't have to explain why those choices are ridiculous. The argument stands: In spring 2008, Canata displayed complete mastery of the Terran versus Terran matchup. He went undefeated in ten games from February 14 to July 1, beating many contenders for the title of "best TvT" in straight up fights. Other Terrans' vT game just didn't stand up to Canata's in this period. -- Much love to TLPD ^^ ...and sorry for triple post | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
To Samurai, there should be a sports media daum link in the first couple of posts or in the OP but I haven't looked. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:11 Samurai- wrote: where can you watch this? Try Daum pot player: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=56443 | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:15 oneofthem wrote: flash is the best tvt over a larger number of games. This post is almost completely unrelated to my argument but...I totally agree. | ||
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skuj
United States302 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:18 Avidkeystamper wrote: I guess Leta hasn't been on the scene long enough? Leta was "on the scene" in this period (he was just starting to make waves in PL) but he was not established as a good player and his TvT was really untested. He only played against pretty weak players, and dropped several of those games - vs. Sunny comes to mind. | ||
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cunninglinguists
United States925 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:17 jwd241224 wrote: This post is almost completely unrelated to my argument but...I totally agree. you can't draw better player comparisons from one or two games played. flash is just superior in pretty much every aspect of the game to every other terran. | ||
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Deletrious
United States458 Posts
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:26 oneofthem wrote: im quite sure his talking about a diffrent period of time (i.e. not the best current tvt'ers)you can't draw better player comparisons from one or two games played. flash is just superior in pretty much every aspect of the game to every other terran. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:26 oneofthem wrote: you can't draw better player comparisons from one or two games played. flash is just superior in pretty much every aspect of the game to every other terran. So...instead of basing my argument on games played, I should just drop irrelevant one-line absolutes like you? I challenge you to make a legitimate argument that Flash's TvT was better than Canata's in the time period I mentioned. You're going to have to explain how Flash lost to someone who was worse than him. Edit: "better" -> "worse", silly mistake | ||
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Chobi
45 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:28 We Are Here wrote: im quite sure his talking about a diffrent period of time (i.e. not the best current tvt'ers) Exactly right, that's why I called oneofthem's original comment unrelated to my argument. I agree that Flash is the best TvT player right now (or even of all time) but my point was that Canata was better at the beginning of last year. | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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GTR
51449 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:28 jwd241224 wrote: So...instead of basing my argument on games played, I should just drop irrelevant one-line absolutes like you? I challenge you to make a legitimate argument that Flash's TvT was better than Canata's in the time period I mentioned. You're going to have to explain how Flash lost to someone who was worse than him. Edit: "better" -> "worse", silly mistake well, he lost a few games. it is simply not a strong argument. i dont really care enough to make a positive argument for other positions. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Too bad I have to stay for 2 hours to wait for the frOzean/Canata result. | ||
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
On January 22 2009 15:25 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: This seriously can't be right. At least I have Ruby and Canata to advance though Oh come on. I've never gotten 0/4 | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:37 oneofthem wrote: well, he lost a few games. it is simply not a strong argument. i dont really care enough to make a positive argument for other positions. People lose games to worse players all the time for a number of reasons. 1.Cheesed 2.Build Order Loss 3.Stupid Mistake (Misclick, etc.) 4.The Element of Luck, etc. So losing a game or two to worse players really says nothing about your skill. It's consistent loss that is a mark against your play. But I agree with jwd that Canata had the top TvT for a while. Not the entire spring, I think firebathero's play started to outclass Canata's in the later half of the spring (regardless of stats). | ||
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imDerek
United States1944 Posts
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mmgoose
769 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On January 22 2009 10:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Predictions NaDa > FrOzeanRuBy < CanataFrOzean > RuByNaDa > CanataFrOzean > CanataAll goes as planned, but I hope you're wrong about the last set :D | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
..marines die and armory can't get finished | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:45 semioldguy wrote: Canata's got this (not actually watching game... I just have faith that Frozean will lose) Brilliant live reporting let's hope your fantasy LR becomes reality | ||
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mmgoose
769 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:45 Sulunais wrote: ..marines die and armory can't get finished YES! On January 22 2009 16:46 Sulunais wrote: Frozean vultures harass starports, goliaths have arrived. Wraiths can't get more kills. Goliaths are chasing the starports home. NO! | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:46 jwd241224 wrote: Brilliant live reporting let's hope your fantasy LR becomes realityIt will. | ||
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:46 Sulunais wrote: Frozean vultures harass starports, goliaths have arrived. Wraiths can't get more kills. Goliaths are chasing the starports home. Allah be praised! C'mon Frozean, keep up your habit of beating out superior players! | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:49 Lhyviathan wrote: Allah be praised! C'mon Frozean, keep up your habit of beating out superior players! WTF is this....only a KTF fan would cheer for FrOzean Stop being sore over how T1 dismantled you guys in PL and WL and root for the good guy! | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:50 jwd241224 wrote: WTF is this....only a KTF fan would cheer for FrOzean Stop being sore over how T1 dismantled you guys in PL and WL and root for the good guy! a Samsung fan might. Only maybe though :p | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:50 jwd241224 wrote: WTF is this....only a KTF fan would cheer for FrOzean Stop being sore over how T1 dismantled you guys in PL and WL and root for the good guy! How could the opponent of an Angel be the good guy? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:52 semioldguy wrote: a Samsung fan might. Only maybe though :p KHAN fans are dumb, but not dumb enough to cheer for CuteAngel :D :D Looks like Canata is a bit ahead now? Yay! | ||
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mmgoose
769 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:52 Lhyviathan wrote: How could the opponent of an Angel be the good guy? well satan was an angel | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:55 oneofthem wrote: but satan was not cute Depends on who you ask. | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
seriously. he has the worst nickname and ID of alltime. | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
make this a perfect night for me | ||
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Descent
1244 Posts
...That said, I'm not a Frozean fan. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:58 Sulunais wrote: Frozean building extra armories, starports and a physics lab. Big tank battle, Frozean holds his lines. This doesn't sound good for Canata T_________T | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:58 MrHoon wrote: you are full of fail if you actually root for Frozean seriously. he has the worst nickname and ID of alltime. You mean other than Justin? | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
my name is Justin so no comment. | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
JiHoon = Justin? | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
... Canata pushes tanks down the left, Frozean loses one exposed expansion, but reinforcements hold the line to the next. Battlecruisers coming soon. | ||
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mmgoose
769 Posts
On January 22 2009 16:55 oneofthem wrote: but satan was not cute http://z.about.com/d/homevideo/1/0/K/3/bedazzled.jpg]http://z.about.com/d/homevideo/1/0/K/3/bedazzled.jpg]http://z.about.com/d/homevideo/1/0/K/3/bedazzled.jpg of course she is | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
lol no my engrish name Jihoon = korean | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:08 Kinky wrote: Is this the last match of the group? Yes | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Group B is going to be sick as fuck | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
BOOM! | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
GG | ||
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
Thanks for the LR, Sulunais. | ||
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Descent
1244 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY | ||
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soudo
603 Posts
Frozean > Canata's TvT Frozean > Jaedong's ZvT Unreal. | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
If this group has taught us anything, it's that Hyuk will be mediocre enough to luck his way past Kal, Leta and Practice, and get played by his coach every proleage match for the next couple of years. | ||
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khy
United States475 Posts
At least I liquibetted this one correctly :\ | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
O L C A N A T A | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:18 Sulunais wrote: get played by his coach every proleage match for the next couple of years. NOOOOOOO Thanks for the LR man ^^ (even though it was seriously worse than semioldguy's fantasy LR) | ||
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LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
Thought Canata coulda done better T.T | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:22 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Thought Canata coulda done better T.T Isn't this the story of his career | ||
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
On January 22 2009 10:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Predictions NaDa > FrOzeanRuBy < CanataFrOzean > RuByNaDa > CanataFrOzean > CanataWow, that's the most accurate and best predictions I ever seen..... good job!!!! NaDa and Frozen into the ro16! Though my bets were NaDa (of course) and Canata.... oh well... | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
Although I'm a T1 fan I never ever liked the guy tho (his playstyle that is), not too disappointed he's out. | ||
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Creationism
China505 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:34 QuickStriker wrote: Wow, that's the most accurate and best predictions I ever seen..... good job!!!! NaDa and Frozen into the ro16! Though my bets were NaDa (of course) and Canata.... oh well... rofl "last edit 12:43 TODAY" rofl, predictions my ass, he changed it hahahaha | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:44 Creationism wrote: rofl "last edit 12:43 TODAY" rofl, predictions my ass, he changed it hahahaha TL runs at korean time, and MSL didnt start before 1400 so he edited before the games even started. | ||
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raiame
United States421 Posts
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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GongKyuckTerran
Croatia1096 Posts
S2 | ||
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eX-Corgh
Russian Federation386 Posts
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Proposal
United States1310 Posts
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falls
United States168 Posts
Woot, go NaDa. Maybe another epic NaDa v SaviOr matchup? | ||
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ReTrooper
Germany526 Posts
PS: Yeah!!! | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On January 22 2009 20:59 Sprite wrote: Frozean is gonna be like the terran version of backho. its funny to say this because during one of the OSLs everyone kept saying "BackHo and Frozean will make a very strong rivalry in the future" after their katrina game. lol.... | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
And frozean must make khan so pissed cuz he fails in proleague. | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
GOGOGOGOGOGOOOOOO ^^ NaDa ftwww gogogogoooo | ||
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I3oxerfan
215 Posts
I knew it. Nada for the win. | ||
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I3oxerfan
215 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
On January 22 2009 17:34 QuickStriker wrote: Wow, that's the most accurate and best predictions I ever seen..... good job!!!! NaDa and Frozen into the ro16! Though my bets were NaDa (of course) and Canata.... oh well... i saw the edit time. i think he edited it after the results were in... | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
No offense, Nada, but you haven't been playing all that well for a while. | ||
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sh02hp0869
Sweden460 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On January 22 2009 21:57 29 fps wrote: i saw the edit time. i think he edited it after the results were in... the edit time is to early for that it was a legit prediction | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On January 22 2009 22:57 fusionsdf wrote: the edit time is to early for that it was a legit prediction I edited it to change the location of the line-breaks. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
were they all long games? short? | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
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RivetHead
United States842 Posts
On January 22 2009 21:58 SimonB wrote: It seems kind of wrong that every player in Group F is a good bit better than every player in Group G. No offense, Nada, but you haven't been playing all that well for a while. He got to the ro8 last season's msl, of course he failed to Free 0-3 in the quarters, but thats still pretty good for an old school player like him. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
i love u nada frozean...... meh w/e | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 23 2009 01:02 intrigue wrote: not sure which is more frustrating - seeing canata fail again, or having to see cuteangel play more matches the pleasure of seeing cuteangel brutally violated is only held off, for the moment | ||
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LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
nada can hang in tvz/tvt with the best. his tvp is currently his weak point and so far some pretty big threats have been eliminated like + Show Spoiler + bisu, much, and now kal hopefully the other groups will have a similar outcome | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
Would have preffered Canata over Frozean though, the only thing I like about frozean is that he beat Savior 2 or 3 times. | ||
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
On January 22 2009 21:44 I3oxerfan wrote: Oh my god. Frozean in the MSL | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + scv tank bombing | ||
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QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
If I could make a parallel: Nal_Rock::OSL Frozean::MSL | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On January 23 2009 01:02 intrigue wrote: not sure which is more frustrating - seeing canata fail again, or having to see cuteangel play more matches Canata failing my LB.. I don't mind Frozean actually, cuz I know he'll get raped later. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
Lee Yun Yeol fighting~! | ||
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nozaro33
Taiwan1819 Posts
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Guandal
Costa Rica93 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
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Ro[]t
Sweden147 Posts
On January 23 2009 01:02 intrigue wrote: not sure which is more frustrating - seeing canata fail again, or having to see cuteangel play more matches Couldn't have said it better myself intrigue. | ||
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