HERE IS THE MATH: Much lost 2-0 to sAviOr sAviOr then lost 3-0 to Bisu Bisu has then lost to Jaedong 3-0 (in tournaments) SO I DONT THINK MUCH IS GONNA TAKE THIS
But in all seriousness, Jaedong is now #1 again on TLPD elo, he has got that fire in his eyes (watch game 3 vs Lomo in Intel Classic) that shows that he is gonna simply crush Much. If you need more evidence that he can crush much, watch the game they just played where he crushed Much.
I think it'll be said eventually, and I'll say it first, Take will take it in 4? How? Easy. He gets raped the first game. Nice macro war 2nd game. Some weird thing happens 3 game. Jaedong just flat-out annihilate Much 4th game. Jaedong 3-1 Much
On July 10 2008 10:02 xenero wrote: He gets raped the first game. Nice macro war 2nd game. Some weird thing happens 3 game. Jaedong just flat-out annihilate Much 4th game.
THE JAEDONG BO5 FORMULA Study it to win tournaments
*Edit* Its funny, as a Jaedong fan, the only thing i'm worried about is him 3-0'ing much because it would break that pattern
I hope both players bring their S game. This could be an epic 3-2 series in either direction if the real Legend Killer and Grandpa Toss show up or it could be epic, 3-0 pwnage in either direction if Much shows up with arthritis or Jaedong chokes.
jaedong's on fire right now. i don't think it will matter which grandpa toss shows up. I think it'll be 3-1, with jaedong dropping the second game when much counters his 4 pool (doubt it, but it'd be fun to watch)
Jaedong has been looking quite monstrous lately, perhaps the strongest play i've seen out of anyone (He may of been slumping earlier this season, but that seems to be all gone) , especially in his recent games vs Much and Chalrenge.
JD is not competant on Tiamat but even so as much as i want Much to it is just hard to imagine him winning this series but il be cheering none the less
I would not be so surprised if Much won the series, but I think I'd only give him about a 30% chance to do so. Hopefully some interesting games will come
Most of you will think I'm crazy... but I think Much is going to take this. he has the innovation to take Jaedong by surprise early and throw him off for later games. This is the furthest he's been in a Starleague. He wants it.
Nothing would make me happier than to see Much and July win both series this week.
But realistically,Its gonna be a pitiful sight between a buff 18 year old steroid injected man beating the living shit out of a Alzheimer-riddled 1 armed old fuck.
Much has a decent chance of taking a game, but the maps + Jaedong's level of play = he won't take the Bo5. Now make no mistake, I think I am one of the people who ardently wants Much to take this, but I just don't think he can. Only an onform Bisu or Kal could do it.
look at any Bo5 Jaedong has ever played since his loss to Rock. It starts off somewhat even but then Jaedong just gets stronger and stronger each successive game. The last game in each series has been pitiful each time.
Memories:
Zergling Rush vs. UpMagic on Fantasy II Pure Pwnage vs. Stork on Blue Storm (all of Mind's losses to Jaedong were pitiful, this is the one exception to the rule) Bunker Rush Defense vs. Flash on Zodiac Raping Kal on Zodiac Muta Domination vs. Hwasin on Othello
Nice OP Atrioc, excellent as always. I agree with Plexa, 3:1 with dropping the first game. Furthermore, if JD plays true to bo5 form, he will lose the first game fairly quickly, take it to the lategame in the second, and dominate from there. btw, congrats on your red name, Plexa
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62789 (another guide) Sometimes, someone (R1CH or Corinthos) posts a live stream for VLC and some other windows program (I think). If you don't have VLC, you can download it at videolan.org, or google for VLC. It works on Windows, OS X, and several flavors of Linux, so if you aren't using windows, this is your best chance.
Another option is yaoyuan. I have zero experience with this, but my understanding is that you can only watch these streams in Internet Explorer with the TVants plugin installed. http://www.yaoyuan.com/live.php
If you plan to watch JD slamming Much around until he breaks a hip , be sure to have everything installed early, because Murphy's Law always applies to computers.
Much can do better than most people are assuming. He is a creative player and as someone said earlier, really wants this title. However Jaedong will probably take it in 5 or 4 just because Much can't compare to the late game mechanics.
I'm torn between wanting Much to win so he can prove himself, and wanting Jaedong to win so we can see Flash v Jaedong in the finals.
Much doesn't stand a chance. Unless Jaedong attempts to cheese and fails, I don't see Much taking a game. Jaedong too damn good ZvP now. (Funny how just a few months ago, he was regarded as total shit at the MU)
I think Jaedong will win, but I think Much will play a lot better than people expect, putting up good games.
Hes most likely been trying non stop pvz on only these maps because lets face it, CJ doesnt have anyone as really successful 1v1 player at the moment. Much can change that with a win and win his team a lot of recognition.
If Jaedong takes this game, which I'm pretty sure he will, then Flash better the game against ForGG next week. Firstly, because a Lecaf vs Lecaf final would be anti-climatic. But, secondly and most of all, Jaedong Vs Flash FINALS will be EPIC, WITH EPIC GAMES, AND GODLY MACRO/MICRO. Man I'm cumming and shitting my pants at the same time thinking of how awesome those games will be. Jaedong better win this and Flash better win his, I'm not really worried about Jaedong but I am sorta worried about Flash.
On July 10 2008 14:52 RifleCow wrote: If Jaedong takes this game, which I'm pretty sure he will, then Flash better the game against ForGG next week. Firstly, because a Lecaf vs Lecaf final would be anti-climatic. But, secondly and most of all, Jaedong Vs Flash FINALS will be EPIC, WITH EPIC GAMES, AND GODLY MACRO/MICRO. Man I'm cumming and shitting my pants at the same time thinking of how awesome those games will be. Jaedong better win this and Flash better win his, I'm not really worried about Jaedong but I am sorta worried about Flash.
I'm not worried at all about Flash.
ForGG beat him in a random proleague game, but a bo5 is a completely different story.
(3 letter korean) UCC (4 letter korean) click on the 3 letter one THEN on the left side...
(3 letter korean) < click this one and u should see it (2 letter korean) (5 letter korean) (4 letter korean) (2 letter korean) < If you missed it u can find it here (3 letter korean) (4 letter korean) (4 letter korean)
I'm at my sisters house and she no have Daum installed, I sure hope there is a VLC stream!
And I honestly predict a 3-1 or even ... 3-0 by Jaedong, but I really want much to win. I have always found him endearing in that grandfatherly way, and I like his play. His in base proxy gate on BlueStorm made me want to be his loverboy the moment I witnessed it.
On July 10 2008 09:59 Atrioc wrote: But in all seriousness, Jaedong is now #1 again on TLPD elo, he has got that fire in his eyes (watch game 3 vs Lomo in Intel Classic) that shows that he is gonna simply crush Much.
i still don'T think that jaedong won that game. lomo simply lost it and nobody can tell us why. T_T
With the way JD has been playing lately I don't see a whole lot of people beating him in a best of five and Much isn't one of them. Flash vs JD for the finals!
On July 10 2008 17:32 Mastermind wrote: Well, since no one else is going to say it, Much sweeps it 3-0.
I commend you for your faith, and I wish that I were as much a man as you are. I dearly hope you are rewarded for your commitment! Though I should be chastized soundly about the head shoulders for my lack of it.
Long life the great Much! Oh wait, too late for that...
Hi I can't get on Daum, or even Firefox because I'm using a "guest" account on this computer and it only lets IE browse apparently. Can this actually happen? Anyhow, I can't get on IRC either, and I was wondering if anyone might be merciful enough to tell me if there is a VLC stream or if I should go to sleep since it's 5:36 AM and I may well not get to watch this. Thanks!
Much builds a pylon at jaedongs nat forcing him to misplace the first hat, but he is going 3hatch and places the second hatch in the right spot. Much had 2 cannons and a gateway worping when jaedong sendt his 4 lings to scout
Jaedong has a bunch of mutas, 3 expansions and working on his 4th. Much has his natural and I don't see him working on a 3rd but I could be wrong. Much has a dark archon
Here are my parting words: Conquer him, Much! I hear you have a DA, showing that you have united the disparate Protoss factions to crush the Zerg swarm. Your holy warriors will conquer, and though guest user accounts are preventing me from watching you, my templar spirit and that of all of your brothers will be with you for the rest of the evening!
looks like Much is doing a good job of keeping Jaedong's economic advantage down... but Jaedong with a billion mutas just flying around killing things, BARELY saves a hatch
Jd doing a good goob abuseing the movement advantage of the mutas but DAs archons goons and storms makes it difficulty to for them survive , btw JD rapeing Much's third expo
I think a handful of sairs would've helped a lot to compensate for his temps getting killed (perhaps even protect them by cluttering on top) and would've improved the damage on his maels significantly.
Most frustrating thing was that 11 hatch, Much should've targeted that completely when he knew the mutas were going to kill his units anyways.
Very interesting first game. The idea of getting DA so fast was really nice and JD has showed some strong muta control as always. I think that Much has sticked to the goon/HT combo too much and he should have added some more Archons/Dark Archons. Also, bringing a Queen or two for Jaedong would probably help melting this armies of goons that Much had.
On July 10 2008 19:07 sushiman wrote: Should've invested in another DA earlier. :/
Jaedong sniped the 2nd muta
I think that for the first attack he needed more good maelstrom, the 2nd maelstrom wasnt good (caught like 4 muta)
In an other note that was a perfect counter for 4 hatch muta ! He had practiced this strategy !
Yes, but he should've invested in it earlier. Instead he went for temps, which albeit being a good choice, was probably a bit less efficient considering his numbers of goons.
9 pool speedlings into 2 hatch mutas is such a annoying strategy.
You don't know what the zerg is doing. Is he going to go mass speedlings or tech rush you. Hell, he may do some crazy no ovie speed lurker drop. Well, not on this map, but still.
After the MSL is over, maybe someone can explain the horse. I just don't get it, and judging by the comments I'm not the only one. He was holding up a sign in korean, right? Maybe we could get a translation that would cause it to make slightly more sense.
Much can't touch him , seriously if he was againts Flash he would have had better chances damn brackets stacking the terrans in 1 and the Zergs and protoss in the second . Looking it as it is , i think MSL is rigged to show as a Jaedong vs Flash final .
On July 10 2008 19:21 CDRdude wrote: After the MSL is over, maybe someone can explain the horse. I just don't get it, and judging by the comments I'm not the only one. He was holding up a sign in korean, right? Maybe we could get a translation that would cause it to make slightly more sense.
The mask certainly is scary, but maybe that's because I've only seen it in this video before.
I don't understand why Much made 1 cannon in his main so early. If he suspected a muta rush then 1 cannon isn't going to be enough, and if he didn't then it's obviously going to be useless.
On July 10 2008 19:22 EvoChamber wrote: Interesting mind games. Much was probably expecting a hydra break after seeing Jaedong crush Jangbi and Lucifer.
My thoughts exactly! It seems somewhat common to do that every once in a while now I think.
But didn't see the JD vs. Chalrenge game but I've read the coach got pretty mad at JD so maybe he used a strat that was supposed to go into this series?
On July 10 2008 19:18 Showtime! wrote: no it wasn't.
Yes, his strategy was very bad. Also, he didn't even know about 9 o clock.
He should have tried 2 stargate +1 corsair with DTs. But I guess he didn't think he could outmicro JDs scourge.
..?
Way to take what I said out of context. That is unless you are agreeing with me. Perhaps you should have included the full quote and the other guy at the same time. Much failed on many levels that game.
On July 10 2008 19:26 Wonders wrote: I don't understand why Much made 1 cannon in his main so early. If he suspected a muta rush then 1 cannon isn't going to be enough, and if he didn't then it's obviously going to be useless.
It ain't fair i tell you , puting Jaedong on 1 side of the bracket and Flash on the other practically says to the other progamers go home and watch the finals ...Poor Much he should have been on Flash side at least he can show us some skills with his DT and shuttle and his great storms <3
On July 10 2008 19:26 Wonders wrote: I don't understand why Much made 1 cannon in his main so early. If he suspected a muta rush then 1 cannon isn't going to be enough, and if he didn't then it's obviously going to be useless.
After realizing he wasn't going a 2 hydra/ling hatch break, he probably thought Jaedong went macro mode, much like the first game, make scourge asap to snipe a scouting sair. that one cannon is just there to scare the scourge away.
On July 10 2008 19:18 Showtime! wrote: no it wasn't.
Yes, his strategy was very bad. Also, he didn't even know about 9 o clock.
He should have tried 2 stargate +1 corsair with DTs. But I guess he didn't think he could outmicro JDs scourge.
Well, there's also the fact that Jaedong built ten or twelve scourge very early on to deter Much from switching to 2stargate corsair. Even if Much had gone for an air build, which I've never seen him do, the +1 would have been nullified by Jaedong's super-early +1 air carapace. Much did what he's familiar with. He attacked hard with a ground army and was a bleeding hatchery away from forcing a draw.
On July 10 2008 19:29 raga4ka wrote: It ain't fair i tell you , puting Jaedong on 1 side of the bracket and Flash on the other practically says to the other progamers go home and watch the finals ...Poor Much he should have been on Flash side at least he can show us some skills with his DT and shuttle and his great storms <3
pretty sure that the seeding process doesn't make them play in Ro64 or 32 or whatever. mostly every tournament is like that, top seeds get separated
Way to take what I said out of context. That is unless you are agreeing with me.
You think I was being sarcastic?
Well, there's also the fact that Jaedong built ten or twelve scourge very early on to deter Much from switching to 2stargate corsair. Even if Much had gone for an air build, which I've never seen him do, the +1 would have been nullified by Jaedong's super-early +1 air carapace.
Yeah, it isn't Much's style so it seems Jaedong won the mind game.
And I don't think that game was as close as it seemed.
Jd being bad mannered expoing next to him but Much might be able to break the contain. Much is pushing with a large army don't know who has the advantage in power probably Jaedong.
Much doing okaaaay, all things considered. Some decent storms keep it "closer" than it would have been otherwise, though those plagues have been pretty nice as well.
Much has higher apm than jaedong at the moment (looks like it from fpv) and is really fighting to stay in. Poor guy is gonna lose as soon as ultras come out
On July 10 2008 19:53 Vasoline73 wrote: Much has higher apm than jaedong at the moment (looks like it from fpv) and is really fighting to stay in. Poor guy is gonna lose as soon as ultras come out
On July 10 2008 19:53 Vasoline73 wrote: Much has higher apm than jaedong at the moment (looks like it from fpv) and is really fighting to stay in. Poor guy is gonna lose as soon as ultras come out
O.o more than 400? D;
lol, no I know Jaedong overall has wayyyy higher APM than Much, but when they showed the first person views it seemed like Much was moving faster, trying really hard to stay in the game. Only my opinion.
I cant believe that players such as Much prevent others to give at least a good fight to Jaedong ...... Braq could've delivere much more pressure to Jaedong .
On July 10 2008 19:56 Avalon_FK wrote: I cant believe that players such as Much prevent others to give at least a good fight to Jaedong ...... Braq could've delivere much more pressure to Jaedong .
Yes but his TvP is laughable, so just because he could have faired better against Jaedong doesn't mean he automatically deserves the spot. His TvP is so ridiculously deficient that he's never going to achiever anything in any league unless all Protoss players die or fail to qualify.
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
So JD can turn 0-1 into 3-0. And turn 0-0 into 3-0. Not he only needs to turn 0-2 into 3-2. But wait... That won't ever need happen with his level of play
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
I think the reason jaedong wasnt really satisfied was because when he was practicing before the match, he didnt lose any expos anywhere and was steamrolling before the protoss even had a sizable army. However, when he was vsing Much, he got nervous and lost some expos here and there and made some small errors...but still pwnt so he wasnt satisfied...
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
I bet 200$ that if it is flash v jd flash takes the series, pay pal is fine if you would like, Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
I bet 200$ that if it is flash v jd flash takes the series, pay pal is fine if you would like, Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
And still he got 0-2 by Luxury! My money is on JD! But of course and a fanboy But also being realistic
On July 10 2008 20:06 Scaramanga wrote: I bet 200$ that if it is flash v jd flash takes the series, pay pal is fine if you would like, Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
If you bet 200 to 100 that Flash will 3-0s JD then I guess someone will take you up for that.
Also, JDs ZvT is much better than Flashes, obviously.
Still, Flash is maybe the slight favorite. So you need to adjust your proposal at least a bit.
I am reminded of why we need Bisu to return or Kal to step his up play once more (Or Best). There's nobody else who can beat JD in this matchup other than Bisu at his finest or the other two reaching new heights.
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
I bet 200$ that if it is flash v jd flash takes the series, pay pal is fine if you would like, Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I would deffo take your bet if I had money. Sadly 200$ is nothing I have as a very poor student, so sorry. I'm sure someone else will pick it up though
It will be an incredibly surprising day when someone manages to take a bo5 from Jaedong again - Flash included (remember that Flash lost the only one between them, please remember this because everyone always gets caught up in the bo3s they played around the same time).
It's not even guaranteed that Flash gets to the final. He's playing forGG, not a big name yet but very strong lately. JD vs. Much was easy to predict, but Flash vs forGG is not. Could be either one advancing. And JD will win the final regardless. :p
On July 10 2008 22:13 0xDEADBEEF wrote: It's not even guaranteed that Flash gets to the final. He's playing forGG, not a big name yet but very strong lately. JD vs. Much was easy to predict, but Flash vs forGG is not. Could be either one advancing. And JD will win the final regardless. :p
Wait what, are you joking beacause there is no way that flash will lose to forgg, look at the TvT record, flash has been dominating recently and that loss to forgg dosent mean shit, hes saving his good strats for the msl, and forgg dosent have the best TvT that i think could stand up to flashes
And for all the people saying flash is worse than jaedong zvt, last two best of matchs flash beat him, and the only matches that flash has lost recently zvt was to lux in osl, where as jaedong apart from beating hwasin in osl hasnt looked too strong in zvt
On July 10 2008 22:13 0xDEADBEEF wrote: It's not even guaranteed that Flash gets to the final. He's playing forGG, not a big name yet but very strong lately. JD vs. Much was easy to predict, but Flash vs forGG is not. Could be either one advancing. And JD will win the final regardless. :p
Wait what, are you joking beacause there is no way that flash will lose to forgg, look at the TvT record, flash has been dominating recently and that loss to forgg dosent mean shit, hes saving his good strats for the msl, and forgg dosent have the best TvT that i think could stand up to flashes
And for all the people saying flash is worse than jaedong zvt, last two best of matchs flash beat him, and the only matches that flash has lost recently zvt was to lux in osl, where as jaedong apart from beating hwasin in osl hasnt looked too strong in zvt
Well its obvious you are a Flash fanboy and so it is evident that you delight in slagging on Jaedong and not letting the poor guy recieve any recognition despite the fact he a head above every other zerg player on this planet. If you could for one second stop posting in every thread your insane fanatiscm for flash and talk about who actually played instead of praising the zvt of the guy who got 2-0ed by luxury. Of course I assume you have an excuse for Flash's play that series so no point arguing that.
First ForGG suffered most of his TvT losses during the first half of his career and to very good players I may add. Recently he has been doing much better and like your beloved flash has improved over time, unless that is you don't think he should be afforded the luxury of experience. Lets not forget he recently beat Flash quite easily so he does have the psychological edge going into the series. And Forgg imo is better than Lomo and Lomo pushed Flash to the edge 3-2 in their last series.
As for Jaedong, if the guy didn't have a problem thrashing Hwasin who was 80% in the osl vs zergs on maps that averaged 70% + for terran then you have to feel that Flash is in for a tough battle as his ZvT control is inferior to that of Hwasin. Flash's ZvT looked incredibly mediocre vs Luxury and if that kind of play inspires you to make dumb statements like his ZvT is the best you may be beyond my help.
Fact is Flash has never beat Jaedong in a straight up old fashion ZvT. All his wins are from all in builds and cheese. Also what is more incredible is how Flash fans seem to deny the exsistence of Jaedong's dominating victory 3-1 of Flash in the Msl a week before their other matches. I encourage you to watch their 3rd set on Loki again because Flash rolled out with a monstrous army that looked nigh unbeatable and still yet Jaedong managed to fight tooth and nail for an incredible victory.
Flash's strength just happened to prey on Jaedong's specific weakness at the time: his vulnerability to early rushes and all in builds. Jaedong got beat purely by BO's and his unprepared reactions to them. His series vs Lomo recently has shown that he may still have problems with this but I am sure he is working on improving his only weakness. Flash will not beat Jaedong straight up, no way in hell. Jaedong has that look in his eye, like an animal on the hunt. Flash will have to prepare another batch of cheese and bull@#$% if he wants to take a bo5 from him cuz if he trys to outplay him in traditional ZvT, he will lose.
Yeah forGG's stats aren't good but he's really strong as of late. His stats will rapidly become better. Flash is losing quite a bit lately, looked very vulnerable against Lomo and Luxury, both of whom are not the best from their respective races, and it's also true that JD is - until now - the better player in a straight-up TvZ. Plus, JD is looking quite untouchable once again. I think it wouldn't be too far-fetched to predict JD-Flash 3-1 once again. But I think the final will be JD-forGG (also with JD winning 3-1).
Ok, enough of this crap speculations. Let's just wait and see. :p
On July 10 2008 22:13 0xDEADBEEF wrote: It's not even guaranteed that Flash gets to the final. He's playing forGG, not a big name yet but very strong lately. JD vs. Much was easy to predict, but Flash vs forGG is not. Could be either one advancing. And JD will win the final regardless. :p
Wait what, are you joking beacause there is no way that flash will lose to forgg, look at the TvT record, flash has been dominating recently and that loss to forgg dosent mean shit, hes saving his good strats for the msl, and forgg dosent have the best TvT that i think could stand up to flashes
And for all the people saying flash is worse than jaedong zvt, last two best of matchs flash beat him, and the only matches that flash has lost recently zvt was to lux in osl, where as jaedong apart from beating hwasin in osl hasnt looked too strong in zvt
Well its obvious you are a Flash fanboy and so it is evident that you delight in slagging on Jaedong and not letting the poor guy recieve any recognition despite the fact he a head above every other zerg player on this planet. If you could for one second stop posting in every thread your insane fanatiscm for flash and talk about who actually played instead of praising the zvt of the guy who got 2-0ed by luxury. Of course I assume you have an excuse for Flash's play that series so no point arguing that.
First ForGG suffered most of his TvT losses during the first half of his career and to very good players I may add. Recently he has been doing much better and like your beloved flash has improved over time, unless that is you don't think he should be afforded the luxury of experience. Lets not forget he recently beat Flash quite easily so he does have the psychological edge going into the series. And Forgg imo is better than Lomo and Lomo pushed Flash to the edge 3-2 in their last series.
As for Jaedong, if the guy didn't have a problem thrashing Hwasin who was 80% in the osl vs zergs on maps that averaged 70% + for terran then you have to feel that Flash is in for a tough battle as his ZvT control is inferior to that of Hwasin. Flash's ZvT looked incredibly mediocre vs Luxury and if that kind of play inspires you to make dumb statements like his ZvT is the best you may be beyond my help.
Fact is Flash has never beat Jaedong in a straight up old fashion ZvT. All his wins are from all in builds and cheese. Also what is more incredible is how Flash fans seem to deny the exsistence of Jaedong's dominating victory 3-1 of Flash in the Msl a week before their other matches. I encourage you to watch their 3rd set on Loki again because Flash rolled out with a monstrous army that looked nigh unbeatable and still yet Jaedong managed to fight tooth and nail for an incredible victory.
Flash's strength just happened to prey on Jaedong's specific weakness at the time: his vulnerability to early rushes and all in builds. Jaedong got beat purely by BO's and his unprepared reactions to them. His series vs Lomo recently has shown that he may still have problems with this but I am sure he is working on improving his only weakness. Flash will not beat Jaedong straight up, no way in hell. Jaedong has that look in his eye, like an animal on the hunt. Flash will have to prepare another batch of cheese and bull@#$% if he wants to take a bo5 from him cuz if he trys to outplay him in traditional ZvT, he will lose.
Read my post properly before writing an huge flame, im saying to the rest of the people in the thread that if it is a flash and jaedong finals that its gonna be pretty even and not one sided jaedong rape like people have been calling it to be, jaedongs zvt has been down of late and i am mearly pointing the fact out, and no, no excuse for flash losing to lux but im not contesting that im contesting that his tvz is down the pooper which is what people have been saying where as i dissagree, so im stating that or do you have a problem with that?
Ok, Forgg dose have decent TvT but nothing that can stand up to flash's level of play, and yes he did beat him in proleauge, by my recolection hwasin beat jaedong in proleage before msl and jaedont demolished him so i dont see this as any indicator because imho people save their strats for msl/osl rather than proleauge to keep the element, and if this is correct in what your saying then the phycological advantage should be the same because currently forgg and flash are tied 1-1
"Flash's ZvT looked incredibly mediocre vs Luxury and if that kind of play inspires you to make dumb statements like his ZvT is the best you may be beyond my help." please show me where i made this statement, i read on my quote i said nothing of the sort,
i dont dissagree that jaedong demolished hwasin, but reading is TLPD before that bo5 he was 3-7 in his last 10 so mabey he hasnt been looking as strong as people say he has been
"Flash didnt play straight up blah blah blah" your point being?, flash beat jaedong 2 out of three times in their best of matches, it dosent matter how jaedong gged but flash made him, if jaedong loses to mech, or cheese or w/e flash dose its jaedongs fault, and i know you'd hate to hear it but its jaedongs fault loosing to a bunker rush it was jaedongs fault losing to mech, and yeah its flashs fault for losing to lux when he did
Look your post is pure jaedong fanboyism flame, and not the lengh or putting little smart arse remarks in it makes up for it, my points are all my opionions and half the stuff you quoted me on is faulse, other than that, pretty good first post
On July 10 2008 23:55 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Yeah forGG's stats aren't good but he's really strong as of late. His stats will rapidly become better. Flash is losing quite a bit lately, looked very vulnerable against Lomo and Luxury, both of whom are not the best from their respective races, and it's also true that JD is - until now - the better player in a straight-up TvZ. Plus, JD is looking quite untouchable once again. I think it wouldn't be too far-fetched to predict JD-Flash 3-1 once again. But I think the final will be JD-forGG (also with JD winning 3-1).
Ok, enough of this crap speculations. Let's just wait and see. :p
So ForGGs strats arnt good enought to beat who im calling and i think anyone would call the best TvT in the world, i dont see any one who can take flash TvT in a bo3 or bo5, yeah flash went 3-2 with lomo but thats because lomos atcully good, forgg is weak in tvt compared to flashs play and it will show
As i said before dosent matter that flash has lost a few recently or he lost to forgg beacause jaedongs been losing a few recently and lost to hwasin in proleage and demolished him in the bo5
Wow, so a few months ago, who would've thought Jaedong's weakest matchup would be his ZvT? It's like someone gave him a kick in the stomach and he's letting the beast out once more. He's 9/10 in zvz, 8/10 in zvp but he's 5/10 in zvt. So I'm still worried about his zvt. His first game against Hwasin was a total muta blunder on his part. In his second game he didn't win that convincingly, making several errors but less erros than Hwasin. And I think the rest of the games were just mind-fuck, which JD has been doing expertly to many players recently. I just hope he wakes up to flash, and in the same token, I hope that flash goes beast mode against Jaedong.
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
Really doubt about Sheis, cause he hasn't played any games vs Z recently (oh he actually did and he lost to some z in the minor league). His wins vs Jaedong are very convincing, but i think he should be given more time to prove it. And i totally agree with HwaSIn over FlaSh as the superior TvZ player.
I was hoping Much giving JD a better fight, but nice job anyways. Semis in both starleagues. Next season you'll do better. Actually I think that if his HT didn't got caught in the first game when he was coming out of his base, it would have changed lot of things. Maelstorming JD's first mutals and storming them leaving with only sunks to defend with a goon based army....well, you know the outcome.
Anyways, congrats to JD, hope you win this whole thing!
On July 11 2008 02:11 Warrior Madness wrote: Wow, so a few months ago, who would've thought Jaedong's weakest matchup would be his ZvT? It's like someone gave him a kick in the stomach and he's letting the beast out once more.
Yeah, I know, right? Three months ago or so, when he played against Stork in that final, everyone was like "who's going to suck less?" But now Jaedong's like god of ZvP all of a sudden. What happened? Rather stunning turn-around...
And it's also a bit amusing how it seems to usually be the zerg players whose ZvX goes in streaks. Like July and Savior were known for superior ZvP at one point and ZvT at other points in their primes... but that almost never happens to other races, I think?
On July 11 2008 03:38 RamenStyle wrote: I was hoping Much giving JD a better fight, but nice job anyways. Semis in both starleagues. Next season you'll do better. Actually I think that if his HT didn't got caught in the first game when he was coming out of his base, it would have changed lot of things. Maelstorming JD's first mutals and storming them leaving with only sunks to defend with a goon based army....well, you know the outcome.
Anyways, congrats to JD, hope you win this whole thing!
Much was knocked out in the quarters of the OSL by BeSt
On July 10 2008 19:01 BlackStar wrote: Does anyone know why Much never went dual stargate and DTs. It seems to me that would hard counter what Jaedong was doing.
I guess he doesn't trust in his ability not to get scourged by JD.
No. JD can easily tech switch to hydralisk. By the time Much knew it was pure mass mutalisk, it's too late. At least dragoons & templars can fight ground and take out expansions.
On July 10 2008 22:43 Scaramanga wrote: Wait what, are you joking beacause there is no way that flash will lose to forgg, look at the TvT record, flash has been dominating recently and that loss to forgg dosent mean shit, hes saving his good strats for the msl, and forgg dosent have the best TvT that i think could stand up to flashes
Lomo and ForGG are Lecaf's top powerhouse Terran. If Lomo can bring Flash to the 5th game then ForGG won't be an easy win for Flash. Flash may win, but not as easy you make it out to be.
On July 10 2008 19:21 CDRdude wrote: After the MSL is over, maybe someone can explain the horse. I just don't get it, and judging by the comments I'm not the only one. He was holding up a sign in korean, right? Maybe we could get a translation that would cause it to make slightly more sense.
The mask certainly is scary, but maybe that's because I've only seen it in this video before.
Lomo is the micro type of guy with his control of wraith, and Flash said in there match "i can play with ure style and own u".
ForGG is a macro monster and doesnt have the best micro, Flash is better suited for this style of play (lomo was an OVNI in the progammer scene). So i think who has better macro sense will take this easily. He know what ForGG is up too, his style isnt explosive as Lomo, who can do X pretty uncommon things.
I dont think Flash will loose because = end of the season, he has only the semi-final to prepare (maybe the GSL if he wins against memory), and so he wont have the proleague schedule to worry about. Also no OSL
When u say his win against luxury wasnt very good i respond to u : He was playing in 4 leagues ! (OSL,MSL,GSL,proleague (a lot) )
I think Jaedong and Flash are just above evryone, dont look at their record, now its the end of the season, no proleague, they can unleash teir power !
On July 11 2008 02:11 Warrior Madness wrote: Wow, so a few months ago, who would've thought Jaedong's weakest matchup would be his ZvT? It's like someone gave him a kick in the stomach and he's letting the beast out once more. He's 9/10 in zvz, 8/10 in zvp but he's 5/10 in zvt. So I'm still worried about his zvt. His first game against Hwasin was a total muta blunder on his part. In his second game he didn't win that convincingly, making several errors but less erros than Hwasin. And I think the rest of the games were just mind-fuck, which JD has been doing expertly to many players recently. I just hope he wakes up to flash, and in the same token, I hope that flash goes beast mode against Jaedong.
On July 11 2008 02:11 Warrior Madness wrote: Wow, so a few months ago, who would've thought Jaedong's weakest matchup would be his ZvT? It's like someone gave him a kick in the stomach and he's letting the beast out once more. He's 9/10 in zvz, 8/10 in zvp but he's 5/10 in zvt. So I'm still worried about his zvt. His first game against Hwasin was a total muta blunder on his part. In his second game he didn't win that convincingly, making several errors but less erros than Hwasin. And I think the rest of the games were just mind-fuck, which JD has been doing expertly to many players recently. I just hope he wakes up to flash, and in the same token, I hope that flash goes beast mode against Jaedong.
I think it's closer to 10/10, 10/10, 8/10.
I'm pretty sure that he was stating Jaedong's record in his last 10 games in each matchup.
On July 11 2008 02:11 Warrior Madness wrote: Wow, so a few months ago, who would've thought Jaedong's weakest matchup would be his ZvT? It's like someone gave him a kick in the stomach and he's letting the beast out once more. He's 9/10 in zvz, 8/10 in zvp but he's 5/10 in zvt. So I'm still worried about his zvt. His first game against Hwasin was a total muta blunder on his part. In his second game he didn't win that convincingly, making several errors but less erros than Hwasin. And I think the rest of the games were just mind-fuck, which JD has been doing expertly to many players recently. I just hope he wakes up to flash, and in the same token, I hope that flash goes beast mode against Jaedong.
I think it's closer to 10/10, 10/10, 8/10.
I'm pretty sure that he was stating Jaedong's record in his last 10 games in each matchup.
Don't bring reason and your dark witch powders into this discussion.
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
Really doubt about Sheis, cause he hasn't played any games vs Z recently (oh he actually did and he lost to some z in the minor league). His wins vs Jaedong are very convincing, but i think he should be given more time to prove it. And i totally agree with HwaSIn over FlaSh as the superior TvZ player.
Sheis lost to shark once in the pc bang league before. I think ruby's tvz has been really good on proleague besides his game with jaedong on katrina. Flash ruby sea and fbh all are 8-2 in their past tvz.
I sort of want a forgg vs jaedong final. Teammates
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
Really doubt about Sheis, cause he hasn't played any games vs Z recently (oh he actually did and he lost to some z in the minor league). His wins vs Jaedong are very convincing, but i think he should be given more time to prove it. And i totally agree with HwaSIn over FlaSh as the superior TvZ player.
Sheis lost to shark once in the pc bang league before. I think ruby's tvz has been really good on proleague besides his game with jaedong on katrina. Flash ruby sea and fbh all are 8-2 in their past tvz.
I sort of want a forgg vs jaedong final. Teammates
But then anti JD people will claim that forgg threw the series when JD wins. ;(
On July 10 2008 20:01 Kyuki wrote: That mans focus! Omg..
Takes him quite a while to get out of the adrenaline focus he has before he can smile. Sick sick sick! Flash can't stop JD, he'll win this MSL no matter who he faces.
Flash has the best zvt in the world, nuff said
I believe that title belongs to Hwasin (or maybe Sheis).
Also, ForGG might have a good shot at taking out Flash, but I really want Flash to win because a Jaedong/Flash final would be amazing!
Really doubt about Sheis, cause he hasn't played any games vs Z recently (oh he actually did and he lost to some z in the minor league). His wins vs Jaedong are very convincing, but i think he should be given more time to prove it. And i totally agree with HwaSIn over FlaSh as the superior TvZ player.
Sheis lost to shark once in the pc bang league before. I think ruby's tvz has been really good on proleague besides his game with jaedong on katrina. Flash ruby sea and fbh all are 8-2 in their past tvz.
I sort of want a forgg vs jaedong final. Teammates
I always like watching teammates playing in a bo3 or bo5, it's like a game who surprises who, since they all know each other's style so well. But in this case Jaedong vs FlaSh would be much more interesting imo
That was brutal. Jaedong was playing a whole level above Much, who never had a chance to get into any of the games.
I think the hatchery at Much's third was a good call. Jaedong certainly intended to keep Much contained, and establishing a sunken/spore/lurker line on Much's doorstep would have sealed the deal. To all the people who think its bm: T_T. This is pro-Starcraft and all is fair in war. Sad thing is the people saying JD was showing off probably loved seeing Much's pylon heart.
As for Flash v Forgg, I think the Lecaf macro monster has a pretty good chance of upsetting Flash. It should be an interesting series at least.
there are so many anti jd fans here, probably they are zerg haters or flash's fans... those who hate MJY probably are in the list of anti JD. why they hate zerg players so much ?
On July 12 2008 10:40 kjk wrote: there are so many anti jd fans here, probably they are zerg haters or flash's fans... those who hate MJY probably are in the list of anti JD. why they hate zerg players so much ?
I've noticed that too. No idea. There's so much more good reason to hate Protoss instead. :p
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i35.tinypic.com/28qh7d.png)
![[image loading]](http://i34.tinypic.com/28qww36.jpg)
[b]Jaedong[/b] < Athena > 
Much ![[image loading]](http://i38.tinypic.com/2vjvqs0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://u.zeroboy.net/files/1/jaedong.jpg)
and he should have added some more Archons/Dark Archons. Also, bringing a Queen or two for Jaedong would probably help melting this armies of goons that Much had.
[[
