[SHINHAN PL] OGN Sparkyz vs KTF 06/07/08 - Page 2

On June 08 2008 10:49 ColdLava wrote:


have you ever tried mutalinging someone (other than zvz) with one gas? give me a break

i think this map isn't so imbalanced for zvp as some people might think. it's just that every protoss goes FE cannons and on this map i don't think that's the best choice. basically you are giving the zerg an opportunity to get that second gas pretty easily which the zerg obviously wants to do

On June 08 2008 11:43 hku wrote:


2 of the 3 zerg vs protoss wins are spire before den wins. The ggplay vs backho and yellow vs bestgod. Also Much commented before his game vs hyun that he did not win a single game vs zerg on hwarangdo during practice.

Please, do your research before you speak. When's the last time you've seen a protoss take a boX series vs zerg by going one base? It doesn't work. There a reason no protoss has beaten a zerg in a finals match before bisu since 2000.

On June 08 2008 12:30 ColdLava wrote:


You can't judge a map by two games... I can't comment on yellow vs bestgod but I watched ggplay vs backho, and ggplay just simply outclassed backho. GGplay was allowed to get many gas expos early (iirc it was 2 or 3 on the bottom left), and i think backho killed one of them later on but it was too late and ggplay was just allowed to simply out macro backho. it wasn't a map imbalance, it was simply backho doing what he always does which is LOTS OF CANNONS + TURTLE and letting ggplay out expo him.

Remember this map? Nostalgia

It's the same concept, and I think that protosses will have to adjust but i don't think the map is as imbalanced as you might think it is TvZ though is a different story i think (t has a bit of an advantage over Z)

On June 08 2008 04:53 t_co wrote:

ACE Match
Don't know who the coaches will send.

On June 08 2008 12:44 iloveHieu wrote:
should of been rA, not Lucifer =(

On June 08 2008 12:44 iloveHieu wrote:
should of been rA, not Lucifer =(

On June 08 2008 10:37 hku wrote:
Regarding comment on spear vs savior on Hwarangdo: Hwarangdo is incredibly imba in zerg's favor in zvp. Modern pvz is gas heavy. p has no answer to mass mutalisks with only one gas. This is why spear choose to proxy gate.

On June 08 2008 12:49 hku wrote:


How can you say that backho vs GGplay wasn't an map imbalance? The protoss is forced to go zealot heavy which is directly countered by mutalisks. The 54.5% zvp in Nostalgia is still a significant enough to say that Nostalgia was a zerg map. Furthermore, considering the stronger mutalisk micro, I am not surprised that Much reported a 0% win rate in practice.

On June 08 2008 13:18 ColdLava wrote:


i can say that it wasn't a map imbalance because 1.) ggplay is a better player (his unit control and macro are good, and his late game zvp/zvt is pretty good), and 2.) backho simply wasn't agressive enough, made too many cannons when ggplay wasn't a serious threat, and let ggplay expo. you might look at the 2349892384 mutas vs backho's 29384982934 zealots and say that mutas will own the map, but ggplay had a huge resource advantage in the first place.

the 54.5% in zvp is pretty negligable. especially when the zvp at the time was a lot more sophisticated than the pvz at the time (so that'd account for that 4.5% percent i'm pretty sure)

i think more agressive protoss's (look at what spear did vs savior, the proxy cheese, although savior handled it pretty poorly :S) will be a lot more successful on that map because the zerg will almost ALWAYS be looking to get that second gas. and if the zerg DOESN'T get the second gas, you'll likely see a hydra/lurker/ling or hydra/ling combination which is perfectly managable from the protoss

On June 08 2008 13:52 Puosu wrote:
My predictions

815
Luxury
Sparkyz
Flash
815 > go.go