EPT[OSL] R1 Group D - Page 21
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Blue
Norway359 Posts
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 26 2008 07:46 Wasabi wrote: ...Obviously not. If he predicted July would go lurkling, why didn't he make a single tank? First, the only reason a Terran would go 2 fac is to keep pumping gols. Tanks would go in second. lurkling isn't the first respnose to mass gols, since (mass) mutas are more effective. Since July never went for lurkling (and I don't think he would have since that's just not July's style). July learned from Jaedong's game and it's imperative for the Zerg to get the second gas very early whether or not he plans to go muta, since lurkling too will need considerable amounts of gas. As for Mind expoing the second time, that time was either Mind goes back to standard mass rax where can live with just one expo, or expand even faster. It's true that he waited until he can get enough gollies, but there weren't much mutas at that point where he had enough vults to defend against his lings. In short I just don't think metal TvZ will work as well as Casy's timed siege tank build on this map. edit- at least we agree that 2 fac isn't a good idea, unless the T is 100% sure the Z builds a hydra den instead of a spire (and again July wouldn't have done that, I forgot the last time he went for lurkers instead of mutas in TvZ). the map has no gas at the nat, july's lurker/ling on maps like that is scary as hell mind's decision was sensible but ended up being a bad move | ||
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._.
1133 Posts
JULY JULY JULY YES.. Sucks that anytime didn't make it though. | ||
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nerium
Philippines512 Posts
my favorite zerg made it out of his group 2-0! GOD OF WAR FIGHTING! | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On April 26 2008 07:46 Wasabi wrote: ...Obviously not. If he predicted July would go lurkling, why didn't he make a single tank? First, the only reason a Terran would go 2 fac is to keep pumping gols. Tanks would go in second. lurkling isn't the first respnose to mass gols, since (mass) mutas are more effective. Since July never went for lurkling (and I don't think he would have since that's just not July's style). July learned from Jaedong's game and it's imperative for the Zerg to get the second gas very early whether or not he plans to go muta, since lurkling too will need considerable amounts of gas. As for Mind expoing the second time, that time was either Mind goes back to standard mass rax where can live with just one expo, or expand even faster. It's true that he waited until he can get enough gollies, but there weren't much mutas at that point where he had enough vults to defend against his lings. In short I just don't think metal TvZ will work as well as Casy's timed siege tank build on this map. edit- at least we agree that 2 fac isn't a good idea, unless the T is 100% sure the Z builds a hydra den instead of a spire (and again July wouldn't have done that, I forgot the last time he went for lurkers instead of mutas in TvZ). wow.... are you serious? Lurker/ling on 1 gas maps was July's SPECIALTY. He has always dominated on 1 gas maps like Nostalgia, Mercury etc using the lurker/ling strategy. | ||
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
"As for Mind expoing the second time, that time was either Mind goes back to standard mass rax where can live with just one expo, or expand even faster. It's true that he waited until he can get enough gollies, but there weren't much mutas at that point where he had enough vults to defend against his lings." -Wasabi Goes back to standard mass rax where he can live with just one expo? LMAO you have got to be kidding me. That isn't even close to a possibility even at even base with zerg, much less when zerg has 4 bases and 3 gases. And "expand even faster" you cant expand quickly to an unprotected base against a zerg who has more mutas than you have goliaths. Goliaths become more and more powerful the more massed they become because of their vastly superior range. So obviously expanding earlier is a horrible idea as the gols will be even less cost effective. Basically after july secured the 3rd gas the game was completely unwinable for mind no matter what he did. Mind's build was made SPECIFICALLY TO COUNTER LURK/LING because he felt strongly that july would use this strategy. That's because against standard mnm play, muta is not really viable on that map. However July played very intelligently and probably adjusted his build after seeing the wall in/low marine count. Also wasabi, if you were more framiliar with july's style he used to ALWAYS open ling harass --> lurker harass ---> muta harass. His strategy was to diminish the marine count with strongly microed lings and lurks so the mutas would have an easy time sealing the game. However T's got too strong with micro and defensive positioning for the lings and lurks to do any damage, and as a result , july's build faded away. In fact his last televised TvZ was against goodfriend and he opened with a low econ harass based ling --> lurk ---> hive rush --> defilier. He came VERY close to winning despite at one point being a base down (2 against 3) in the EARLY mid game. With great ling/lurk and defilier micro he push goodfriend all the way back to his MAIN choke. However once his defiler push ran out of steam against vessels he slowly crumbled. But yes , obviously 2 fact vulture is not an ideal opening against mutas but it still IS viable if you play it properly and manage to delay the 2nd gas for a long time. Mind did not do so and as a result lost really bad because he could not keep up with July's muta count off one gas compared to july's 2 (and later 3  ). | ||
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Darkmole
United States900 Posts
On April 26 2008 13:03 Live2Win wrote: wow.... are you serious? Lurker/ling on 1 gas maps was July's SPECIALTY. He has always dominated on 1 gas maps like Nostalgia, Mercury etc using the lurker/ling strategy. wait i thought July did muta/ling on those maps cuz i watched those on the highlight | ||
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clazziquai
6685 Posts
But nice to see July get through! ^^ | ||
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Spyder
176 Posts
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dO_ov
United States190 Posts
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
-edit I think that mind went mass goli cuz he thought that July was going to go for lurker/ling which he's kinda famous for (aside for the muta). A metal line up, mass goli's and few tanks) would have been better only if the nat expo had gas, which in this case, there was none. Mind really didn't have much choices (no pun intended) cuz July went for mass mutas which basically gave the advantage to JulyZerg for these reasons: 1. If mind goes back to mass bionic, July can go mass lings + mutas. 2. If mind goes mass golis, same thing, mass lings + mutas. 3. Mass tanks would be a terrible choice too. July just managed to outclass, outplay, and outthink mind that game. And yeah, 2 fac build on a map with no gas on nat is a terrible mistake. 2 gas is badly needed in order to keep pumping out golis, bionic was a better way to fight. But July's muta mirco will just rape the rines. - edit: changed much to mind now, lol. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On April 27 2008 00:38 SilverSkyLark wrote: Isn't EMP Shockwave some sort of standard vs Protoss? Just Irradiate against Zerg. -edit I think that much went mass goli cuz he thought that July was going to go for lurker/ling which he's kinda famous for (aside for the muta). A metal line up, mass goli's and few tanks) would have been better only if the nat expo had gas, which in this case, there was none. Much really didn't have much choices (no pun intended) cuz July went for mass mutas which basically gave the advantage to JulyZerg for these reasons: 1. If Much goes back to mass bionic, July can go mass lings + mutas. 2. If Much goes mass golis, same thing, mass lings + mutas. 3. Mass tanks would be a terrible choice too. July just managed to outclass, outplay, and outthink Much that game. And yeah, 2 fac build on a map with no gas on nat is a terrible mistake. 2 gas is badly needed in order to keep pumping out golis, bionic was a better way to fight. But July's muta mirco will just rape the rines. Wow...just wow..I'm not even going to touch this one. | ||
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muramasa
Canada1299 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
o... wat //// | ||
LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
On April 27 2008 00:38 SilverSkyLark wrote: Isn't EMP Shockwave some sort of standard vs Protoss? Just Irradiate against Zerg. -edit I think that much went mass goli cuz he thought that July was going to go for lurker/ling which he's kinda famous for (aside for the muta). A metal line up, mass goli's and few tanks) would have been better only if the nat expo had gas, which in this case, there was none. Much really didn't have much choices (no pun intended) cuz July went for mass mutas which basically gave the advantage to JulyZerg for these reasons: 1. If Much goes back to mass bionic, July can go mass lings + mutas. 2. If Much goes mass golis, same thing, mass lings + mutas. 3. Mass tanks would be a terrible choice too. July just managed to outclass, outplay, and outthink Much that game. And yeah, 2 fac build on a map with no gas on nat is a terrible mistake. 2 gas is badly needed in order to keep pumping out golis, bionic was a better way to fight. But July's muta mirco will just rape the rines. i wasn't aware that much was a terran player | ||
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dO_ov
United States190 Posts
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