EPTOn October 14 2026 07:50 PachiBW wrote:
Why do you think we have to compare soma's mechanics only to other zergs? The top Terran and Protoss players all have better mechanics than soma, and yes, so does soulkey.
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On October 08 2026 12:35 Kanzzer wrote:
You may have a good point regarding his skills compared to SoulKey - and the data also supports it. SoulKey also right behind soma in offline ZvP winrate in Remastered and far and away the greatest ZvT player with 65.79% winrate (75W-39L. Larva technically has higher Remastered ZvT winrate at 68% but he's only played 25 games). Versus Terran & Protoss online, like soma, he's only has losing h2h record against FlaSh (23-46), Light (234-253) and is almost dead-even versus Bisu (141-139).
However, I was specificially challenging the claim that soma is a "pretty bad player mechanically" and that he "just has good game sense". Sounds to me like he was saying soma's mechanical skills are well below the whole pack, which I'd assume he may or may not include Queen, Action, JD, effOrt OR herO etc...
That's the problem with such a big, generalized claim - it needs to backed up against all other top Z players, not just SoulKey.
I also want to reiterate how good soma's online ZvZ record is: while he has winning record againt all Zergs, SoulKey only has winning record against JD out of all the players I mentioned above. The ZvZ data is much thinner than the other matchups, but that's the thing: I'm not the one with the "soma is a pretty bad player mechanically" claim, so the burden of proof is not on me.
On October 08 2026 09:57 TMNT wrote:
Result wise he may not be, but style/skill wise he's a level below Soulkey.
Soulkey legitimately dug it out against the best Terrans multiple times in late game to win ASLs. Think it was his first ASL title where he held on to dear life against Royal and slowly crawled back with his dark swarm play? In season 19, he also pulled out the Defiler 6 times in 14 games against Best and Snow. Many still remember his famous 40-min back and forth battles vs Snow on Blitz Y and Dominator.
Now ask yourself this: when was the last time you saw Soma build a Defiler in ASL? He killed 3 Protosses on his way to the first title, playing 19 games, and only 2 times it went to late game, only because the map was Roaring Currents (which kind of forced you into that, but even so, there was no Defiler as late game on this map is played totally differently). Out of the 12 games he won, 9 were won off the back of Ling aggro or Hydra bust, 1 was a 3 Hatch before Pool, the other 2 were the 2 Roaring Currents games. His second ASL was kind of a cake walk. Only had to play Tulbo, sSak, Hero, Leta (sounds like a Ro24 group) until Flash in the final. And even then, the final was just a gambling competition between the two of them. No game went to late, some ended as soon as they began, the rest barely went into mid game lol.
On October 08 2026 03:32 Kanzzer wrote:
That is a very generalized and - dare I say - a very bold claim, and I would love for you to elaborate further.
We are talking about 56.76% (21W-16L) winrate in ZvZ - which is the 2nd highest ZvZ winrate in the history of Remastered here (possibly 3rd if you count Queen's losses in ZvZ bronze matches) - trailing only effOrt (60%, 12W-8L), as well as arguably the greatest ZvP player in the modern era with 43W-20L, having lost only 3 matches (not games) ever against Protoss when it matters (plus one third place loss against Bisu).
Since 2021, he also has winning head-to-head record against almost everyone, losing only to Bisu (201-229), Light (243-270), FlaSh (39-56), plus some thin losing record against Larva (15-17) and TY (9-10). Data pulled from Eloboard combined with unlogged StarCastTV matches.
Both of his ASL wins are no cakewalk either. Again, not trying to doubt you, I'm sure you've seen something that I haven't paid attention to, but the guy is absolute god-tier player based on his stats.
On October 06 2026 21:08 PachiBW wrote:
The better player won. Despite what people say about his skill level, soma is a pretty bad player mechanically. He just has good game sense.
He makes countless unforced errors in all of his matches and zerg is really easily able to punish those mistakes as soulkey showed here. It's just when he fights protoss, and to a lesser degree terran, they aren't able to capitalize on those mistakes as much because their armies aren't as mobile. In this series soma showed he needs to go back to starcraft university and learn where to build spires, to not just run his lings into opposing lings letting them die for free, and where to position his overlords.
On October 06 2026 20:58 c3rberUs wrote:
I was 10% watching due to work. Do you guys think this was closer to the "coin-flip" stereotype or did the better player took the series match convincingly?
I was 10% watching due to work. Do you guys think this was closer to the "coin-flip" stereotype or did the better player took the series match convincingly?
The better player won. Despite what people say about his skill level, soma is a pretty bad player mechanically. He just has good game sense.
He makes countless unforced errors in all of his matches and zerg is really easily able to punish those mistakes as soulkey showed here. It's just when he fights protoss, and to a lesser degree terran, they aren't able to capitalize on those mistakes as much because their armies aren't as mobile. In this series soma showed he needs to go back to starcraft university and learn where to build spires, to not just run his lings into opposing lings letting them die for free, and where to position his overlords.
That is a very generalized and - dare I say - a very bold claim, and I would love for you to elaborate further.
We are talking about 56.76% (21W-16L) winrate in ZvZ - which is the 2nd highest ZvZ winrate in the history of Remastered here (possibly 3rd if you count Queen's losses in ZvZ bronze matches) - trailing only effOrt (60%, 12W-8L), as well as arguably the greatest ZvP player in the modern era with 43W-20L, having lost only 3 matches (not games) ever against Protoss when it matters (plus one third place loss against Bisu).
Since 2021, he also has winning head-to-head record against almost everyone, losing only to Bisu (201-229), Light (243-270), FlaSh (39-56), plus some thin losing record against Larva (15-17) and TY (9-10). Data pulled from Eloboard combined with unlogged StarCastTV matches.
Both of his ASL wins are no cakewalk either. Again, not trying to doubt you, I'm sure you've seen something that I haven't paid attention to, but the guy is absolute god-tier player based on his stats.
Result wise he may not be, but style/skill wise he's a level below Soulkey.
Soulkey legitimately dug it out against the best Terrans multiple times in late game to win ASLs. Think it was his first ASL title where he held on to dear life against Royal and slowly crawled back with his dark swarm play? In season 19, he also pulled out the Defiler 6 times in 14 games against Best and Snow. Many still remember his famous 40-min back and forth battles vs Snow on Blitz Y and Dominator.
Now ask yourself this: when was the last time you saw Soma build a Defiler in ASL? He killed 3 Protosses on his way to the first title, playing 19 games, and only 2 times it went to late game, only because the map was Roaring Currents (which kind of forced you into that, but even so, there was no Defiler as late game on this map is played totally differently). Out of the 12 games he won, 9 were won off the back of Ling aggro or Hydra bust, 1 was a 3 Hatch before Pool, the other 2 were the 2 Roaring Currents games. His second ASL was kind of a cake walk. Only had to play Tulbo, sSak, Hero, Leta (sounds like a Ro24 group) until Flash in the final. And even then, the final was just a gambling competition between the two of them. No game went to late, some ended as soon as they began, the rest barely went into mid game lol.
You may have a good point regarding his skills compared to SoulKey - and the data also supports it. SoulKey also right behind soma in offline ZvP winrate in Remastered and far and away the greatest ZvT player with 65.79% winrate (75W-39L. Larva technically has higher Remastered ZvT winrate at 68% but he's only played 25 games). Versus Terran & Protoss online, like soma, he's only has losing h2h record against FlaSh (23-46), Light (234-253) and is almost dead-even versus Bisu (141-139).
However, I was specificially challenging the claim that soma is a "pretty bad player mechanically" and that he "just has good game sense". Sounds to me like he was saying soma's mechanical skills are well below the whole pack, which I'd assume he may or may not include Queen, Action, JD, effOrt OR herO etc...
That's the problem with such a big, generalized claim - it needs to backed up against all other top Z players, not just SoulKey.
I also want to reiterate how good soma's online ZvZ record is: while he has winning record againt all Zergs, SoulKey only has winning record against JD out of all the players I mentioned above. The ZvZ data is much thinner than the other matchups, but that's the thing: I'm not the one with the "soma is a pretty bad player mechanically" claim, so the burden of proof is not on me.
Why do you think we have to compare soma's mechanics only to other zergs? The top Terran and Protoss players all have better mechanics than soma, and yes, so does soulkey.
Well because all three factions play vastly different?
